My 720 Resto

[Charlie69]

This is my 85 ST king cab withthe bent frame.  It will probably be a parts truck.

 

[84720FourWheel]

I know of many manual transmission rebuilders that spec 20w50 for fluid.

It doesn't have the same shock loading that great oil does, but if you aren't towing its not going to be an issue.

 

Some transmissions spec a ATF from the factory. He would have no problem using engine oil, especially if he was just idling the engine to test it.

 

Engine oil doesn't have the sulfur phosphorus compounds of gear oil, so it would be safer on syncros than using gl5.

[720inOlyWa]

That is a bleak image to start the day with!

Well, like I said, I can wait for my oil okay. I dont want to screw up all this hard work by being impatient.

 

But wayno brings up a good point: should I brush oil over the cam tree before the first start? I can see that they greased the cam obes, etc., but maybe it wouldnt hurt to spread a littl oil around with a brush. I put a little Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder already.

 

Fast forward an hour...

 

My oil arrived while I was out getting coffee! Damn, now I have no excuse not to get that shit in the tranny and button up the interior hook up some tubing and wires and go for it. The time to fire up the Fudgecicle again is (almost) at hand!  

[720inOlyWa]

Rained out, with about an hour’s worth to go. At least she sits on the ground  now! A few tubes and wires and it‘s time to start her up. I painted the cam tree with oil before I sealed up the top. I also douched the cylinders with 25 drops each of Marvel Mystery Oil.

 

Do you think I should crank it for a bit with the plugs out on one side and the coils detached, to get the oiling system primed before I attempt to start for the first time, or just go for it?

 

[wayno]

If it is a fresh rebuilt engine then you need to manually prime the oil pump, if it has had the oil pump out and you know it is dry, it should be manually primed also, but if it is a used engine that the oil pump already has oil in it, I would just start it.

What I mean by manually priming it is to submerge the pump in oil and spin the shaft till it is full of oil, then mount it on the engine.

[Lockleaf]

The last couple engines I've redone, I poured 50w pretty heavily over the entire valve train and timing assembly.

 

Then i disconnect the fuel pump fuse and crank the motor in 5 second intervals till the oil light turns off. Once that happens I hook the fuel back up and then start it.

[720inOlyWa]

Lots of pressing distractions, and the occasional rain squall kept me off of the truck today. I could step over the threshold into runner status with another half hours worth of concerted effort, but I just didn‘t get to it today. BUT I did make some major news happen for the little Fudgecicle in the form of a rebuilt and balanced driveline. New greaseable U joints, new carrier bearing, balanced to about 130 miles an hour (a good 40 more than I will ever go). The zerk fittings all line up nicely... Man, that is a sweetie! 

 

 

 

It wasn‘t cheap. I will admit to that. In fact, it cost more than the price I paid for the truck when I found it ($325). But that is all I will say about that. I will say that this project is absurdly under budget so far, thanks to you know who. So a little splurge for a kick ass driveline seems in order to me.

 

Funny thing, isn‘t it? I get wiggly about a cherried out driveline the same way some kids around here get torqued about buying custom wheels.

 

The driveline that I have in there isn‘t bad. In fact, I just replaced the carrier bearing on it. But I will swap this one in next spring, when the weather isn‘t so cruel. Something else to look forward to!

[Charlie69]

I know of many manual transmission rebuilders that spec 20w50 for fluid.

It doesn't have the same shock loading that great oil does, but if you aren't towing its not going to be an issue.

 

Some transmissions spec a ATF from the factory. He would have no problem using engine oil, especially if he was just idling the engine to test it.

 

Engine oil doesn't have the sulfur phosphorus compounds of gear oil, so it would be safer on syncros than using gl5.

 

Rebuilt and a transmission with 150,000 plus miles on it is 2 different stories.  I will bet if the rebuilder is recommending motor oil for his rebuilt trans he is probably building them tighter than stock specs. 

[720inOlyWa]

Well, it is all done. I will install the console this morning, pull the fuel pump fuse, crank it until the oil light goes off, stick the fuse back in, and start it up. That‘s the entire chore list for today. Of course, I will let you know how it goes, Ratsun friends...

[LTJ]

Hoping it goes well for you!

[720inOlyWa]

Thanks, man. But for me, it seems like everything for me is a bit of a struggle. Take starting this truck, for instance...

 

I primed the oil pump, hooked up the oil pressure idiot light and it was time to start. Once I put the fuel pump fuse back in, it took about three revolutions of the engine before it caught and idled smoothly. Smoothly, but not perfectly, exactly- there was that curious sound coming from the engine.... sounds like a mail box or fucking rocks.... and it is getting louder fast!

 

Holy shit, I shut it right down and had a real freaked out few moments there, trying to figure out what the hell I had done wrong. I decided to re-check the oil and coolant, both of which were a little low, as I expected. But nothing too weird there. I took the valve cover off and began examining the cam tree. In doing so, my left palm rested on the cam sprocket, which fucking moved! Holy crap, I didn’t sinch the bolt on the cam sprocket tight enough! Oh man!

 

So I tightened it back on carefully. The reason that the noise was getting louder is because the sprocket was getting looser and looser. At least, that is what I told myself, hoping against hope that I had actually found the problem.

 

Well, I did find the problem. I sinched that damn bolt down, replaced the valve cover, and started it up again. Quiet as a mouse. Smooth as silk. My heart soared! The loping sound I had before the rebuild, due to uneven compression between the cylinders, was now an even drumbeat. My motor is good.

 

I am still shaking.

[Charlie69]

Damn good thing you shut it down and pulled the valve cover.  Congrats on the rebuild.

[zookeeper]

WOW I just saw this post and realized we both were doing an engine swap in almost the same rain storms. Im in Tacoma.  Really nice vehicles you have. Inspirational!   Its the first engine swap for me and it seemed to go well until I tried starting it for the first time and it just dose not start. It seems to be getting spark fuel and the timing is all correct to the manual I have and at this point Im kind of out of ways to approach problem solving. I trust the engine I got that was rebuilt but I dont trust some of the weird fixes the truck had before I got it. I put everything in the places I found them but that is not necessarily the correct place. 

[720inOlyWa]

Thanks, zookeeper. Getting kind of chilly at night for truck work in the driveway, huh? Start a blog here on your issues and I guarantee you, good people will help you. Sure helped me. Send me a message next time you bomb down to Olympia. We can talk trucks and skinned knuckles... or something. Good luck!.

[720inOlyWa]

This morning, I did a cold start test, even though the details have not been dialed in yet. One crank, and it snapped to life and idled smoothly. Damn, that was a nice way to start the day! It is sunny out today, and I have nothing to do but tweak this engine until it is absolutely happy as a clam. I will re-install the console too.Then I will take a nice drive on down to 93rd S., to visit Johnston’s Machine and Performance to give my old pal Junior a dog treat, and to thank the machine shop guys who turned a totally tired old Z-24 into a sweet running little gem of an engine.

 

We have this wonderfully slutty little teenage girl living just up the street, and she attracts horny young men at an alarming rate. Most are total losers, but once in a while, a good one comes by for some nubile companionship. While walking the dog yesterday, I saw an old Toyota 4x4 parked in her driveway, with a small group of teenage boy/men gathered around (the hood was up). I asked what was wrong and  one of the young guys said he just bought the truck and was fixing a vacuum leak.  “Is this the 22R motor?” I asked. “Yeah“ He said. “I have heard that is a good one.“ I said. His other teenage friends were obviously mechanically disinclined and heavily distracted by a tight young girl in sprayed on jeans so, seeing the potential for real help, he glommed onto me right away. “Did you check the carb mounting for leaks?“ I asked “That is the first place I would look. These Webers leak at the base sometimes. Do you have a propane torch handy?“ Of course he didn‘t.  “Look, I am three houses away. Let me go get mine.“

 

In a few minutes, we found three little leaks and stopped them, which really smoothed out his idle and low end response. The upshot of this event was that I learned from him that there are some really beautiful places to go 4 wheelin‘ in our area. It is the whole reason why he bought his beater Toyota, to go prowl all of these interesting places in our local woods. As we fixed he vacuum leaks, he gave me a rundown on where to go. It sounded like something I have never seen or done before. I was fascinated.

 

Presuming that nothing else gets weird here as I break it in and put on some miles on the Fudgecicle, I am psyched to do it all again. And I am excited to try a little four wheelin‘, too. The tired motor that rolled me down the road for 15k miles in the Fudgecicle needs to come apart and head off to the machine shop sooner, rather than later, and be turned into the fresh new Z24 for my ‘86 4x4 Nissan 720. Maybe by this time next year, I will be ready to explore the capital forrest in my solid new 4x4 720.

 

The only thing that bugs me is the clean up. I spent days  cleaning the mud off of my 4x4 when I bought it, and it still isnt close to clean. How the hell do you get all the mud off of a truck, anyway? Maybe I need to buy a pressure washer as the 4x4 project percolates along because I could never live with a mud truck. Let‘s see, does Harbor Freight have a cheapie....

 

850 RPM, idling at the curb. Last up: air shocks.

 

[720inOlyWa]

This is my 85 ST king cab withthe bent frame.  It will probably be a parts truck.

 

 Where can I see more of your parts truck. Damn, I wish I had an ST laying around for parts!

[Charlie69]

I started a thread for it.  This is the truck I was going to give to Mark (Pacific Coast Datsun) when I found out it has a bent frame.  I can buy another King Cab ST minus motor and trans for less than I can straighten the frame on this one.  I have $1200 in a parts truck.

 

My PhotoBucket is set to share so if there are any pictures you want please help yourself.

 

http://s477.photobucket.com/user/Charlie69_Datsun/library/1985%20Nissan%20720%20ST%20King%20Cab?sort=3&page=1

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/67799-charlie69s-1985-720-king-cab-st/

[LTJ]

Well done on the swap!

Glad you found the loose sprocket when you did!

[Charlie69]

How does it run with the new engine.

[720inOlyWa]

Damn.  I was afraid that someone would ask.... It would run so good.... except for one little problem. When the cam sprocket came forward, I looked as hard as I could down the timing chain and everything looked fine. But idling there, the timing was moving by about 10 degrees! Moving! Goose it a little and let go, and you can hear the timing chain slapping the cover.  shut it right down again.

 

I know what that means. I don’t need a diagnosis. It spit the tensioner when the cam sprocket came forward. Must have. So I get to go back in and pay some dues for my original mistake of not sinching the cam sprocket down tight in the first place. Pretty embarrassing, if you ask me.

 

I can‘t really tell the state of the tensioner from above, but nothing went crunch and no cataclysmic sounds were heard. It just wouldn‘t hold the timing marks.

 

We have been going through a pretty significant storm here for the past couple of days, so it has given me the opportunity to finish up a guitar restoration project at my indoor bench, to recover from having the wind knocked out of me, 720wise. I am re-gathering my energy for removing the timing cain cover again.

[Charlie69]

It would be best to pull the timing cover and check it out.  If all is good put it together.  besure to physically remove any metal particles that might have collected in the timing cover.

 

Still a great build and sweet truck!

[720inOlyWa]

Well, thanks for the encouragement and advice, Charlie. I am in the process of pulling the timing chain cover now.Sure enough, the chain has some slack. Just to be sure, I compared it to the engine I just pulled and it has no slack at all. So something isn’t quite right here.  I drained the oil, checking it carefully. No bits of metal, no chunks of tensioner spring, nothing weird at all. You can‘t really see the tensioner with just a flashlight, but there is no shavings or particulate matter at all. The chain guides seem firmly in place. So the mystery continues. If the tensioner spit out somehow, there isn‘t evidence of it so far.  I am starting to wonder if I stretched the chain when the cam sprocket slid forward.

 

Good news is, there is no obvious signs of damage at all- so far. In terms of this repair, I am going to go dark because what ever it was, it was just a bone headed mistake on my part and so there is no point in dwelling on it too much. Suffice it to say, no matter what it takes, I will wear this problem down and make it right as rain. That’s what I do.

 

Take this 1949 Martin 000-21, for example (on left). This week, I am finishing up a full on restoration of tis guitar, which has taken over a year to complete. The list of what was wrong was far longer than the list of reasons for saving it, but I saved it anyway. Oddly enough, this guitar is one week younger than I am. One week! And it came to me in the most terminal condition imaginable. It gets you to thinking‘. Anyway, today, it plays like butter, sounds like honey. The owner is going to be thrilled with it and now it is going to have a life far longer than mine. If I can wear away all of the problems that ‘the Old Cowhand‘ had, I can make this truck sing again too- despite myself!

 

[720inOlyWa]

I set up my portable rain shelter and rigger a light source and just went for it today. From 9AM until 8:30 PM, with a break for lunch and dinner and that was it. Sure enough, the tensioner had spit out without any noticeable damage to anything. So I just put it all back together, which I could pretty much do in my sleep now. I just poured the coolant back into the radiator and called it a night. I need to bleed the system, add oil, check everything over once again, tighten the valve cover and start the motor again. I should know the story by about 10AM tomorrow morning, if all goes well. Fingers are crossed.

[Charlie69]

Sounds like you have it handled.  It will be purring like a kitten soon, after the break in period then it can roar like a lion!  Good job.

[720inOlyWa]

Wow. nobody said 720 learnin‘ was gonna be pain free, but this lesson was a bitch! I say ‘was‘ only because I think I finally found my  main ‘problem‘ today, after several days of screwing with it. But the work session ended before I could prove it so we will have to wait another day to finish repairs.

 

As I tried to sleep last night, I sorted through the timing set up logic for the umpteenth time to try to figure out exactly what I was missing. Sometimes, It would crank with no signs of life. Sometimes, it sputtered. Once, it stumbled to life, then fell dead as a mackerel. I pulled a plug and I could see a spark. I pulled the dizzy and checked the shaft dog position and it was right. During my insomnia last night, it occurred to me to pull the cap to double check that it is was pointing to cylinder number three at Top Dead Center.

 

So I pulled all the exhaust side plugs and put a 27mm socket on the crank and (after disconnecting the battery, of course) turned it to the timing marks yet again. I pulled the cap. It was pointing to 7 o'clock- way off. I carefully pulled the dizzy and the shaft dog was right at 11:30- perfect. What? I carefully re-seated the dizzy and only then discovered that the driveshaft dog was barely kissing the female slot in the dizzy itself! With just a little pressure, I could spin the rotor when the dizzy was fully seated in place. The shaft dog and the distributor were not engaging fully! Oh man!

 

Thinking back, I used the distributor that was already in the truck because it had the plug in to the wiring harness instead of the terminal block. The donor truck was an 84, with the three wire terminal block type hookup. Since the dizzy that went with the rebuilt engine was the terminal block type, I swapped it out for the plug version (that had been working fine in the truck for two years now). Only problem is, it does‘t quite engage the shaft fully. I put the dizzy in that went with this engine (and dizzy drive shaft) and they mated right up, solid and fine. So I guess I will have to convert a terminal block type dizzy to a plug in version somehow.

 

Now here is the weird part. I discovered this just as my work session was drawing to a close, so I didn’t check this out with a micrometer yet, but when I hold the two distributor shafts next to each other, they are the same length. The recesses down to the engagement slots seem exactly the same. The slots themselves are both undamaged. Yet one engages, and one does not.  Are the shaft lengths different, year to year?

 

I haven’t pulled the the oil pump to see if the shaft is seated correctly, but I can tell from looking in from the top that it is just right on the drive gear. I set it in by hand before putting the oil pump in, so nothing could have been bound up or not fully seated. The 4x4 has a plug in type dizzy, so if it isn‘t raining tomorrow, I may see if that one fits instead. I‘d kinda like to figure out exactly what the deal is before I go cutting and splicing wires...