Wtf - new old 5sd will not shift out of 5th!

[mtngoat]

Ran into Portland to pick up a replacement differential. I'm almost back home and now can't shift out of 5th! Shifter just greases forward and back with no feel at all. Won't move sideways either!

 

Could vibration from the diff I was about to get rid of have loosened something?

 

I have no idea how I'll slow down to get through my little town and there's no way I'll get up my hill. I'm sitting on the freeeway shoulder on a downhill stretch right now so I can get going one last time.

[bonvo]

the shifter refuses to move at all? 

[mtngoat]

No it goes. Fore and aft way too smooth

[wayno]

It's sounding like you lost the shifter fork dowel/pin in 5th since it won't move sideways, if so you are still in 5th, get as close as you can get to home and then call a buddy for a pull up the hill.

[wayno]

Is this a dogleg 5 speed?

[mtngoat]

No it's a zx box. The shifter moves fore and aft smooth but no gear feel at all, and I did find it will move side to side in the correct place as well, same smooth but 'nothing there' feel to it

 

I guess tomorrow I find out what's inside a tranny the hard way

 

Anything else vibration might have shaken loose?

 

I managed to make it 45 more miles, two off ramps and merges, across the bridge over the Columbia River, through one town at 30 mph, and up past the first turn going up the hill without slowing enough to stall me. A buddy towed me the last mile, car is in the shop. Got lucky

[ggzilla]

The vibration could have shaken anything loose, U-joints, transmission parts, etc.

 

But just take it one step at a time. Sounds like they shift rod linkage just worked loose.

[wayno]

If you have side movement, then pull the shift lever out and look at the ball on the bottom of it, does everything look correct?

There should be a ball with a plastic piece around it, if it is broken, find a new shift lever first.

 

Its hard to diagnose certain things on a computer.

[mtngoat]

It's completely quiet and smooth with the clutch pedal down, so I think u joints and stuff are ok

 

Shifter feels ok in terms of not being loose, so I don't think it's just the cup thing at the bottom. I don't know much about what's in there but from pics I've seen of how the rods slide around to move the forks maybe that's it

 

Learned my lesson on diffs.... Do not put them off! Lucky it didn't just lock up on me or shed the driveline at 65 on the interstate!

 

It's in the shop, the stove is roaring.. and I'm drinking!

[mtngoat]

It will be out shortly I'm in the house to warm up. Tips on getting the rear case off? I'll remove the speedo dealy and the couple nuts I think hold in check balls for shitfting, anything else gonna bite me on this?

[mtngoat]

ok got it out. the entire shaft assembly the shifter plugs into slides backwards a good inch, so far you can see the o ring sealing the shaft. 

[datzenmike]

This part that has the pin and clip that holds the shifter? It should just rotate slightly from side to side when the shifter is rocking the neutral gate.

 

[mtngoat]

that's the one. I can slide it straight back and expose the shaft and o ring. the left end of it reaches about where the lower case portion shows at bottom in your pic. 

[mtngoat]

I figured out what the issue was...the pin which keeps that shaft in place is completely gone. It must have shaken out. I grabbed one off'n a four speed in parts mtn and it fits perfectly. Now the shifter works and I can feel the it working the forks. 

 

I had it apart part way so I just kept going, undid the speedo pinion, reverse switch, re removed that retaining pin which must have fallen out. took off the front cover by unbolting it then tapping the throughout stud through the bell housing hole. removed the circlip I found on the big bearing tapped on the front case and off it came. 

 

the rear case is still on, it seems to still be hanging on to something so I didn't force it. (this is when I had all the other stuff off - pin, detent, etc)

 

Now that the front case is off I used C clamps to hold the rear case to the main plate as if it's bolted in, reinstalled the shifter, reverse detent, and retaining pin. Now I can work the shifter and see what's going on. 

 

It likes 1st just fine, but the ring the fork slides back for for 1st and forward for 2nd will not slide past the thin brass ring with the tiny triangular teeth onto 2nd gear. It fits over the (synchro?) but won't go past it all the way onto the gear as I see it doing in first. 

 

3rd and 4th are about the same, it seems to be kinda sticking on the toothed brass ring...same deal, the big ring moved by the fork slides onto either of the brass ones OK, but will not go past it onto the actual gear. 

 

I'm not sure wether it's all supposed to feel right with no oil or not, but it seems like if it goes into first ok, it should hit the other three fine. 5th is easy, reverse seems to have some resistance like the others. 

[datzenmike]

OK.

 

Look forward of the loose part on your shifter about 2-3 inches... see that small E clip? It holds a pin that rides in a groove on the loose shifter preventing it from moving forward or back but it can rotate. With luck the clip broke or came off and the pin fell out.

 

 

 

Here's the other side. Look just forward of the threaded hole forward of the shifter. You can see a small pin

[datzenmike]

Ha ha I'm too slow.

 

 

Try turning the input while 'shifting' into 2, 3, 4.

[mtngoat]

OK I'll try that too. I shot some wd into the works to slicken things up a bit, i'll try running through the gears while turning the input. yay. 

 

does direction matter when I'm turning it? 

[datzenmike]

Direction, I don't think so.

 

WD-40??? I wouldn't use that on a transmission. It will wash the real gear oil off the internal bearings. WD is just a small amount of mineral oil and mostly aromatic hydrocarbon solvent. No harm done but don't use it.

[mtngoat]

Ok, no more WD!

 

Well, the narrow brass ring with tiny teeth on it for 2nd has a tiny break in it, it's actually in two pieces. That sux. I'll check over the 3rd and 4th when I'm less disgusted. After finding that I went to work on replacing the diff

[Sealik]

Shit......if you were local ......

I have a (Byrons) rear diff / 3" blocks... and more for your goon.................good  (720) 4 speed....etc...50 dolla.... :)

[mtngoat]

Oh well it can't be helped. Someone else local will probably need the parts at some point, if you yourself don't wind up using 'em.

[mtngoat]

Well thanks to Clark County Transmission, Silky_Johnson, and BJW's 510's... (Ratsun members) the Deathmobile is back on the road.

 

BJW's gave me a great deal on a complete axle and leaf springs too. I didn't do a complete swap as I thought the diff I got from Silky felt better.

 

I pulled an axle shaft from BJW's unit and found the backing plate was a different style with smaller bolt holes in a different pattern. Had that swapped and added a new bearing.

 

Plugged in Silky's nice tight feeling diff.

 

Had Clark Co Trans redo the Z box, this guy was very cool and knows his stuff. He found a crack in the tailhousing while working on it, scavenged a new rear case from Alltrans, replaced some gears and all the synchros etc, cleaned and painted the works, $500. Not too bad I don't think. I can't remember the last time I drove a Datsun trans which felt *new*. Very positive gear positions from the perspective of the stick, and no noise at all from the trans.

 

Between the diff from Silky, the new axle parts from BJW, and the rebuilt trans I'm pretty thrilled. Over the last few years I'd forgotten what it was like to drive a car which did NOT have the rear diff howling away back there. Now even at highway speeds it's absolutely quiet back there and even through the shifter hole. I don't know how much of the total noise was the diff, vibrations from the diff coming up the driveline, and a worn transmission...but now it's ALL gone and it's wonderful. I put 300 miles on it over the weekend and not a problem. Loving the tall 5th gear, that .745 is a decided improvement over the .813 on the truck trans. (Now to do the math on the mongrel box thread and see if I can put together a box with the 3.5 1st and .745 5th!)

 

Thanks for all your help Ratsun guys, this place is awesome. Good advice, great deals on parts to keep this rig on the road.

 

Next up....the '67 Roadster now gets some love for the first time in 6 years, and gets off the jackstands and onto the road!

[Silky_Johnson]

Nice!  I'm glad everything worked out for you.  I was about to shoot you a PM to see how it all went.  Thanks for the update.

[mtngoat]

That diff is awesome. It's so quiet!!!

 

Now to get the 2000 on the road!