610 Wagon L20B won't start

[b3y0ndd34th]

Okay, for those of you that didn't know, I warped my head when my radiator detonated. I had the head machined, re-assembled, got the timing set up. I crank the motor, and there seems to be no fire. I am jumping my battery as my car is dead from the tow home. I pulled the main coil wire off the distributor and I am not getting spark. so I want to check to make sure I am getting voltage. From the wiring diagram I found, it seems the battery is directly connected to the resistor on my firewall. I have located this wire, I get correct voltage on this wire. What else should I check? I even purchased a brand new ignition coil, but it also has no spark.

 

I have checked my battery cables, they are tight, not corroded. Motor turns over, does not fire.

 

I cleaned and re-gapped sparkplugs. Car ran when I brought it home after I replaced the radiator, it just smoked like a freight train. so I was reluctent to buy the ignition coil, but I could not deduce if the coil had taken a poo or not. Again I have no spark from the main coil wire to the distributor cap, where should I look?

 

Battery is on the charger.. and it's raining, I must not be meant to work on the datsun on my day off lol.

 

I have a new wire set for my spark plugs, I've tried the old wire and the new wire to the dizzy but no spark.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Is this a Point distributor?

I assume this is a point coil you bought for it???????

 

 

I havent seen coils go bad.

 

You ck the points or gap them??????. I assume points as most stock 1975 had points

 

Resitor should be connected to the battery when you turn the Key to ON. and than there is a bypass wire when Key is in START (called the HOT START wire or bypass wire).

 

key on you will have 12volts going into the ballast resisitor. after the ballast or at the + side coil will be about 6-9 volts I say.IF not then ballast can be open(broken)

 

The wire comming from the points should go the the - side of the coil.

 

another way to ck the points is get a test light. put the alligator end on the tab where the point wire hooks up(remove the cars point wire from tab and let hang). then take the pointed end and put on +side battery. now start the car the test light should flash as the points close it will grnd thus completeing the circut for the test light.

 

If test light is ON. this grounding out.

 

I think its the points or a condensor . or you hooked up something wrong

[b3y0ndd34th]

I only took a couple wires from their positions, and they are back where they were originally.

 

Yes it is point distributor, yes it is a point coil.

 

Forgot to tell you, Point set is new, was in the car maybe 3 weeks before radiator blew. New Cap, button, Plugs, Wires.

 

I will see if I can acquire a test light, I need to return my grandpa's torque wrench anyway.

 

you are correct, 12 volt at the resistor when on, + side is 6.96 volt.

 

I will check the gap. How do I check the condenser?

[datzenmike]

Stop buying parts and solve the problem firsyt.

 

 

If th coil is good and has power then either..

 

1/ the points are not opening or closing.. take cap off and crank do tey open and close???

2/ the dizzy is not grounded properly

3/ wiring is wrong.

[banzai510(hainz)]

When I used to have points I would swp it out and the car wouldnt start. I would put the old stuff back in and it would run then put the new points condensor back in and then it would run. DSo I figured I grounded soemthing out, or bad condensor installed.

 

Once you get spart and hopefully you got the fire order correct and TDC 1 3 4 2 Counter clockwise it should be close enough to get running and time it.

[wayno]

First check to make sure you have spark at the points, since the new points were in there before the radiator blew, I am assuming you know how to gap the points, so remove the cap and rotor and turn the engine fan till the points are closed, then turn the ignition on, and get a screw driver, now open the points manually with the screw driver, they should spark, if it does indeed spark, then put it back together and use a volt meter to check for power on the positive side of the coil, if it has power, then remove the starter exciter wire, have someone turn the key to the start position, does the positive side of the coil still have power, if it doesn't, then the starter bypass wire has been left off the the coil.

Just to get it started, just put a jumper wire between the positive side of the coil, to the positive side of the battery, if it runs, then i say again, the starter bypass wire to the coil has been left off.

To check for spark at the spark plug wires, just pull the #1 plug wire, put a screwdriver in the end of the wire, and get it real close to a metal ground, and have someone turn the engine over, it should throw a spark, but the engine can also try to start doing this unless all the wires are pulled off the plugs.

The negative side of the coil goes to the distributor.

points, gap, rotor and wires(1, 3, 4, 2, counter clockwise), the engine at TDC, the #1 cylinder cam lobes should be at 10am, and 2pm, and the rotor should be pointed at 4pm(at #1 spark plug wire).

[b3y0ndd34th]

yeah firing order is correct, I never disconnected the wires to the dizzy, only at the plug, main input from the coil, and as I disconnected them I numbered them with masking tape and a sharpie. I make sure to double check, even tripe check, when I go out there again. Re-gapped plugs, and break set (point set)

 

I only bought the ignition coil because it was a recommendation. I've been told a few times I should replace it with my previous problems but I didn't, instead I replace cap, button, wires, and point set. I only did this time as the coil was not firing.

 

I have my old point set I'll try swapping it in too. Waiting on my grandpa to get up so I can borrow his feeler gauge and test light.

 

I have spark at the points, spark at plugs. Power at coil + side of 5.72 volts (according to the manual I am using 5-7 volts is normal 5-9 is acceptable).

 

What do you mean by the starter exciter wire? What color is it? I have a white wire black stripe running to positive side of coil, but every guide I look at this wire is not labeled; I have a spade connector that runs to the aftermarket tach aswell. Negative side has a blue wire, and a spade connector that runs to the aftermarket tach.

 

The wire on the starter itself (not the main wire to the battery) does not have voltage till I crank it over (exciter wire) I've disconnected it, and used the jumper wire, there is no starting.

[ggzilla]

I have spark at the points, spark at plugs

Excellent -- that means the coil is firing.

 

The coil & resistor needs two wires, one for 12V from the Run circuit and one for 12V from the Start circuit. If the latter is missing it the coil will spark under manual test, but not when the key is turned to Start -- while cranking the coil will have no power.

[wayno]

yeah firing order is correct, I never disconnected the wires to the dizzy, only at the plug, main input from the coil, and as I disconnected them I numbered them with masking tape and a sharpie. I make sure to double check, even tripe check, when I go out there again. Re-gapped plugs, and break set (point set)

 

I only bought the ignition coil because it was a recommendation. I've been told a few times I should replace it with my previous problems but I didn't, instead I replace cap, button, wires, and point set. I only did this time as the coil was not firing.

 

I have my old point set I'll try swapping it in too. Waiting on my grandpa to get up so I can borrow his feeler gauge and test light.

 

I have spark at the points, spark at plugs. Power at coil + side of 5.72 volts (according to the manual I am using 5-7 volts is normal 5-9 is acceptable).

 

What do you mean by the starter exciter wire? What color is it? I have a white wire black stripe running to positive side of coil, but every guide I look at this wire is not labeled; I have a spade connector that runs to the aftermarket tach aswell. Negative side has a blue wire, and a spade connector that runs to the aftermarket tach.

 

The wire on the starter itself (not the main wire to the battery) does not have voltage till I crank it over (exciter wire) I've disconnected it, and used the jumper wire, there is no starting.

 

 

The starter exciter wire is the one that activates the starter(makes it turn over when you turn the key to the start position), I tell everyone to pull it off the starter when checking for power at all the key positions, and there is no reason to turn the engine over when checking for power at the coil in the start position.

If the points are sparking when opening them, then that is not the issue, but you said you replaced the cap, so you have had the wires off the cap, did it ever run after the cap was replaced?

[b3y0ndd34th]

yes it ran great after the cap replacement, I replaced the cap maybe a month ago.

 

I had my dad come over and help me adjust everything, this is the 5th time adjusting the timing... AND IT WORKED it was a timing issue. I had everything TDC but I guess it was 180 out, my dad noticed that right off the bat.

 

Now there's a soft tick/peck goes with the speed of the engine. This developed after I put it back together. Should I get a shim? We took the valve cover off and started the car momentarily, the noise continued, was not louder or softer. Need suggestions now. I did not replace the valves or anything to do with them.

 

Looks like I'm getting places now :)

[ggzilla]

Glad to hear it's running now.

 

The tick not getting any louder with the valve cover off ... that suggests it is not a cam/valve problem. It might be a crack in the exhaust manifold.

[banzai510(hainz)]

 

I hope there is ballast resistor in the system. otherwise this will burn out the points!!!!!!!!!!!

I had everything TDC but I guess it was 180 out,??????????Yeah this helps but even off 180 you should still get spark from the center coil wire. The points tell the coil to FIRE. The dizzy puts the spark in the right spot at the right time.

[ggzilla]

180 degrees out usually coughs and backfires while trying to start. Both are signs of spark at the coil, going to the wrong sparkplugs at the wrong time.

[b3y0ndd34th]

I figured it would backfire and shit being 180 out, I watched your video that's how I knew the cam wasn't in TDC when I went to put the head back on the first time. Someone had replaced my dizzy before and used that matchbox style, I guess that's what it's called.

 

There is in fact a ballast resistor, it's on my strut tower. After I had someone else here to help me test, rather than holding the screwdriver and reaching in the window to turn the ignition, we found that it was getting spark on the coil wire and the plug wires.

 

There sounds like an exhaust leak, but I'm worried about the tick/peck, I will check to see what the lash is for the rockers and adjust as per your instructions. The guide I have says to set intake at 0.008 and exhaust to 0.010

 

I can't embed photbucket video but here is a link of the sound

http://s819.photobucket.com/albums/zz113/B3y0ndD34th/Datsun/?action=view&current=VIDEO0012.mp4

[b3y0ndd34th]

still working, got the shim in yesterday and buttoned up, need to adjust timing.. hopefully no more "ticking", too hot to do it today, and i seem to be more successful when I have help anyway.

[b3y0ndd34th]

I am still having issues getting my car to start and run. I almost had it started it was sputtering and cranking with my current timing set up. I adjust the dizzy a bit and have not been able to find the sweet spot again.

 

I drove my car to pick up my rims and on the way back my radiator blew up causing my car to over heat.

 

After pulling the head, it was very badly warped. I had the head machined and milled, they had to remove 0.003 off my head in order to make it straight again. I took the head home and put it on. I then had troubles with getting the car timed correctly. With the help of this wonderful community I got it started and running, but it had a really nasty tick/peck. Not a knock, I drove the car home with a bad head gasket before I pulled it and had it machined. It did not make any noises, only smoked heavily and smelled of anti-freeze. So I purchased a head saver from my Car-Quest here in town.

 

I tore the motor back down, installed the shim, gasket, and torqued the head back on, etc. I have been having a hell of a time getting the car to start since then.

 

I have taken the timing cover off, and adjusted the the timing a few times now and everything is correct (timing mark on the pulley, timing mark on the gear, and timing on the dizzy). I have the timing set (as per the sticker on the car) at 12 degrees Before T.D.C.

 

I have a matchbox dizzy, it came installed on the motor before I got the car, and yes I am aware it is 180 out from normal dizzy, and it is set appropriately.

 

I have the Firing order correct (1-3-4-2). I have a fairly new point set and I've tried all variations of gap the point set allows, but I did not replace the condenser. Plugs are fresh, and gaped, Plug wires are new, Coil is new. I replaced wires and plugs before over heating, but I re-gaped the plugs anyway, Coil was replaced when I was trying to get fire from it.

 

I have checked the voltage at the coil; negative side is 12 volt, positive is 5.92 when the car is turned into the on position, the coil fires at the cap, plugs fire, car turns over, but will not start. Wire to Dizzy is 12 volt from negative side of coil.

 

I have tried Advancing, and Retarding the timing at the distributor but it does not seem to help, I have not loosened the second bolt on the adjustment plate yet, I'm waiting to see what other ideas you guys have in store for me.

 

Carb was freshly rebuilt (maybe 2 months before radiator trouble) but was working before the radiator blew up and caused the car to overheat.

 

I really need some help, my car has been down 3 weeks going on 4 now, and it's my daily driver, I want to get her back on the road :(

[Zeusimo]

Check To See If You Are Getting Spark On All Cylinders

 

Did You Run Out Of Gas?

 

Motor Should Look Like This At TDC

 

Otherwise It Should Start

[Zeusimo]

Also That Tick/Peck Is Your Valves Needing Adjustment

[b3y0ndd34th]

Lol, there is gas in the tank, I have also tried giving the carb a little drink to help it along after removing the fuel pump. Still no start, I will check for fire at the other 3 cylinders, I've never had trouble just checking the 1st one though. My TDC looks just like yours.

 

I have adjusted the lash for the valves is this what you mean by "adjustment"?

[Zeusimo]

Valve Lash

[datzenmike]

This is really a continuation of your other post on the same thing. So I have added it to this new thread. Keeps all the information together under the new title.

[b3y0ndd34th]

Thanks mike. This makes it easier for ppl to keep up.

 

I have used hainz video to adjust my valve lash, I forgot to update. I did the valve lash on the 9th. I'll see if I can find my old point set and swap it in, see if it makes any difference.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I have checked the voltage at the coil; negative side is 12 volt, positive is 5.92 when the car is turned into the on position, the coil fires at the cap, plugs fire, car turns over, but will not start. Wire to Dizzy is 12 volt from negative side of coil.

 

YOu say this right?

 

with key ON, wire going to the ballast 1st should be close to 12volts and after ballast should be about 6 volts as you said , which will be same as the +side coil.

Unfortunatly uyou swapped so much stuff at once it hard to know what really is bad.

If the car was running before you should have just left them alone than buy new parts. I seen and even myslf put new points in and get NO sprk cause Im grounding soemthing out.

 

1 3 4 2 is the fire order but mack sure its Counter clock wise.

 

if this is a point dizzy get a test light and and put the alligator end on the tab(where the wire hooks up to,of coarse remove the wire ) then take the pointy end of the test light put the positive battery. If it lights up the dizzy is grounded like the points are closed. Open the points the test light should go OUT. If it dont then theres your proplem.

 

as with point sytems you have a ballast resisitor, a point coil and dont forget you have a HOT start wire that should be at the +side coil also when key goes to start.

[b3y0ndd34th]

I used ohm meter instead of test light, as I don't have one lying around, but yes as points open the continuity goes out.

 

I have a Ballast resistor on my strut tower, directly above my points coil. The ballast is functioning properly, and hot wire is functioning properly.

 

I have used my old point set, and put my old coil in for testing purposes and have decided to leave the old coil in and keep the new one for emergencies. Even with old pint set (yes gapped) my car fires on all 4 cylinders but does not start. I can't get it to "chug" like it wants to start anymore, am I a couple teeth out?

[banzai510(hainz)]

Even with old pint set (yes gapped) my car fires on all 4 cylinders but does not start. ??????

OK this means the coil is firing right. So if you took the center wire from the coil place it near ground then the end of the wire should spark as your turning the key. CORRECT.

 

Then either you forgot the rotor under the cap , your valve lash is bad or fire order or spindal off.

 

 

Now since you watch the vid already on how to set the timming and uyou had this running before this should be running.

 

I cant keep track of howmany time you drop the oil spindal or not but ck again at TDC. spindal in 11/28 position and then the rotor should be pointing to #1 plug wire. then go 1 3 4 2 counter clockwise fire order.

 

If you said its sparking then all you need is compression. so next is valve lash. then gas is all that is needed.

 

 

PS I have seen a point distributor make the points ground out when putting the cap on. When cap off the points would work OK. . So ck again.