timing - trouble shooting.

[AtomChurch]

I used Hainz video to time my motor. and some other information also. I must have taken the motor apart 3 times now.

 

I am getting gas.

I am getting spark.

 

My cam pin broke and my gear fell down the front cover.

 

To time it i used a screw driver in the spark plug hole to check for TDC. on number one piston. then I matched up all the marks on the sprokets [i used the center hole on the top gear, and the number 2 marked mark for the chain] with the marks on the timing chain. and I put the distributor to 11'28 position [what does this mean, why 11'28] and the firing order is 1-3-4-2.

 

do you think that I have the right operation for timing it but still just messed up somewhere along the line? or am I doing something wrong. or maybe missed something

 

also where can I download Hainz's video? so I can watch it while doing it.

 

I only watched it once. then I have just been going from memory haha.

 

 

right now my motor turns over but not really andthing else. a couple times it backfired, but they were kinda lame not really very strong backfires.

[521Lvr]

is the pin still broke? if so the cam gear could be slipping

 

with the crank and cam timed correctly and #1 piston all the way up.

Insatll the dizzy so that the rotor button is pointing to the contact in the dizzy cap that is connected to #1 spark plug

[datzenmike]

The screw driver will get you close but you should set the pulley mark at the O on the timing scale. #1 cam lobes @ 10 and 2 o'clock? Loosen distributor and take distributor cap off. Turn distributor till the #1 wire on the cap is directly over the rotor end.

 

Was the cam changed? are the valves set or too tight?

 

Check that ALL wires go to the right plugs. Do it again because this sounds like something simply overlooked.

[AtomChurch]

If I drop the oil pump and redo the distributor, does it matter where I put it if I match it up so at TDC on no.1 the rotor hits a point that I set to no.1? also as long as the gears are still lined up?

[AtomChurch]

I did change the cam. This motor was running before and then I blew the head gasket. when I put it back together the cam got pinched or something and the sproket sat wrong on the cam. and the pin snapped. so everything but the timing is ready to go on the motor.

 

the motor was even running pretty decent still with the head gasket blown. ran normal except the big cloud behind me. and if I didnt have it plained the timing would have gone back on just how it was.

[fryanbacon]

crap. timing is one of those things I need to learn more to do. I've got a timing light, but I wouldn't be able to do it without it. I don't know, but would one help your situation?

[AtomChurch]

I hope so. Or tomorrow I will just go do it three more times till my motor runs. I painted my engine bay and cleaned the motor. it looks nice. now I just have to get it to run.

[banzai510(hainz)]

http://www.guba.com/general/search?query=datsun&set=5

 

If you think you got it correct,

make sure the valve lash is also good. I dont see why it would change.but ck it

 

I cand send you a DVD if you need one bad

PM your address.

 

Just dial motor up to TDC 0 deg on crank keeping chain tight and go from there per the DVD and you should get it.

 

oil spindal/dist drive will be in the 11.28 position . then put the dist and mount on and where the dist locks down at the will be #1 plug wire. and hopefully its right on and you have enough timming movement in the plate. adv/retard.

 

also Its Counter CLOCK wise fire order!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

YOu dont have to use the screw driver method. Just look at the intake lobe(the 2nd one back) and when it gets to say the 9 o clock position then just look at the Crank and dial it up to 0. Then look at the lobe and should be close to the 10 oclock position and the exhaust will be in the 2 o clock.

[fiveNdime]

pins :lol: the idiot who rebuilt the ka I bought didn't tighten the cam bolts so both cam gears were spinning which obviously screwed my timing up. That led me to a complete rebuild to do it the right way....The scary thing is I actually had it running with it like that.

 

Take the valve cover off to make sure your #1 cylinder valves are where there supposed to be and not 180 degrees out! Everything should line up just right. Before you start the motor make sure you check your valves.

[AtomChurch]

Well I cheked everything again. and noticed that this time my timing is what looks like just one tooth advanced. I remember my friend saying that he ran his motor one tooth advanced. And I decided that it would be nice to have more power at higher RPM's.

 

Does anyone know where to set the distributor when the timing is one tooth advanced? I believe its on 11.28 position but its only firing on maybe 2 cyl. out of 4. and the smoke just pops out of my weber it doesn't actually run. [the firing order is still right] Do I need to turn the rod that turns the distributor one click to match?

[datzenmike]

The cam timing and ignition timing are not related.

 

The ignition is run off the crank. Set TDC compression, distributor drive spindle at 11:28, insert distributor, rotate distributor until #1 plug wire is over the rotor tip, tighten and fire up, fine tune the timing with a light.

 

A one tooth advance is 9 degrees! Advancing the cam always destroys bottom end power and torque. This is where you spend most of your driving time.

 

 

You said you changed the cam....did you check valve lash???????

[AtomChurch]

I didnt check for valve lash, but i put the cam back on where it sat when I pulled the other one off. the lobes were also at 10 and 2 when I timed the motor. how do I check for valve lash? when I crank the motor around the valves all clear.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Valave lash?

Does a feeler guage go under the rocker and lobe when the lobe is point ing up??????? If yes ck all then they are pretty much OK.

If cam was changed then you have to do this everytime. otherwise the air is not compressing and just going right out and doesnt care if the spark is fireing or not.

 

In the vid remember the fist part of the Cam sprocket photo in the book if cam was set one tooth ahead it was bad, and bad if one tooth retarded.

 

the V notch and dash should pretty much line up If not the motor is NOT timed. Then do the distributor timming!!!!!!!!!

 

watch vid over and over.

 

as for cam adv you move the # on the sprocket up one # not one tooth.

Use #1 hole then move to #2 hole on Cam.

 

 

PS I told you to PM so I can send you the DVD and you can watch at your lesure. Tell me today as I will be gone for a week.

Otherwise dont fuck with the car untill you know what your doing this is EZ to fix. or this is a Ray Stonehocker moment (to fix it)

[Phlebmaster]

as for cam adv you move the # on the sprocket up one # not one tooth.

Use #1 hole then move to #2 hole on Cam.

 

 

So tell me....what is the reasoning behind the three settings? Is this just to make up for chain stretch? Or can this be used to gain torque if it is set to #3? :confused: I am thinking of setting mine on the three because I am putting in a high lift cam.

 

One more thing....is anyone familiar with Norris cams? What do the markings "341 SRA" mean??

 

Sorry about the thread jack Atom..but I think this fits.:lol:

[banzai510(hainz)]

I have heard of Norris cams?

Is it new? I myself avoid used stuff like that.

 

a 521 /early 620 have such a low gearing does it make sense to get more torq out of them? You hauling firewood.

 

Im not a expert on this. But to truely do it correctly one should use a degree wheel.

 

I myself for my 521 I would put it on #1 so I can get more top end out of it since its geared so low anyways w/4speed trans. But this is just my thought. its not scientific. I hate to have all my power spent and not even reach 60mph.

Maybe somebody else can chime in on this

[Phlebmaster]

I have heard of Norris cams?

Is it new? I myself avoid used stuff like that.

 

a 521 /early 620 have such a low gearing does it make sense to get more torq out of them? You hauling firewood.:lol::lol:

 

I myself for my 521 I would put it on #1 so I can get more top end out of it since its geared so low anyways w/4speed trans. But this is just my thought. its not scientific. I hate to have all my power spent and not even reach 60mph.

 

:lol:Thanks Hainz....yes the Norris cam is used. I just need a little insite on the cam settings and numbers.

If I took a pic of the cam Hainz, would you be able to tell anything about it? I am a little confused about what you said for measuring the lift and duration in your video.:cool:

 

No I am not hauling firewood..LOL. I just want to get the best performance out of my L16. I know the L20b is a much better choice for performance, but all I have is the L16 at this point.....good practice anyway for a future swap.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I cant tell by looking at the cam or #ing system they use.

 

measure lift is measure the high side of the lobe then go 90deg and measure again. the difference should be like .276 as a example. then X 1.50 rocker arm ratio. .286 x1.5=.429 lift

duration you need a degree wheel for sure unless you find the 3s on the net somewhere.

 

PS is it wise to spend alot of money on a L16 ?when you could do a L20 on the side while your truck is still running.

 

eleltronic ignition and the weber DGV is the best bang for the buck(maybe some good SUs( if they really exist)

[hang_510]

I have heard of Norris cams?

Is it new? I myself avoid used stuff like that.

it came from a 'good' source :P

 

my calc show it to be a ~.490 lift then(using hainz math) & thanx! ive been looking for that!!!

 

 

 

the head will swap from the the L16 to the L20... whenever your ready :cool:

[Phlebmaster]

Thanks for the clarification on the measurments.

 

And no it is not wise to spend lots of $$ on an L16...thats why I choose to barter, trade, or give in kindness...just as I have recieved in kindness.:D So anyone out there who wants to spend lots of money on an L16...stop!! Get an L20b.....there I said it.:lol:

 

This truck is running because of the advice, parts, and help I have recieved on this forum.;) Not because of the $$ I have spent.:cool:

[racecar68dad]

I dont mean to butt into your dialogue, but!!!

a week or so back I posted that the Bob Waar book

How to modify Datsun 510 610 240z engines and chassis was offered on ebay for $25.

This manuel is 240 pages of datsun info and answered all the questions you just asked.

I encourage all, everyone, to try and own this Datsun manuel. you have all the info, pictures, and old part numbers right in front of you at all times. It is great reading about Bob sharp, Pete Brock, Paul Newman

damn I get all misty just thinking about it.

Bottom line when your ready to work you have the info you need. No waiting for the email or post to answer your questions.

Sorry to be so long, but its that good

[Phlebmaster]

Thanks for the info...can you scan it??:D

[AtomChurch]

OK PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

so when my cam broke [after I checked compression] the sprocket spun around and jammed in a different location. but the motor was still turning for a second. and low and behold, my valves got bent.

 

I checked compression again to day and there was none. so i pulled my head back off and began re-honing the valves. and noticed they were bent. So I put a different head on and vroom vroom. my car ran. well poorly. but it ran.

 

at least now I can dial in the dist. and hope the head will run fairly decent. and stop spitting.

[AtomChurch]

thanks everybody for your help [hainz especially]

 

I knew I didn't suck at timing. just japan made a crappy cam. :/

[Phlebmaster]

Glad to hear Atom!!

 

I may be calling you when I get ready to put my engine back together...for moral support.:lol:

 

See you around.

[AtomChurch]

deal.