what motor a ka or vg

[goofie872]

i dont what motor to put in my 510 i dont if i want a ka24de or vg30e what do you guys think :confused:

[fiveNdime]

WAIT FOR IT...........................hey put an SR into it........HAHAHA !crap on that idea!

 

 

 

I say KA.....I personally like that swap a little better then the VG. There are pros and cons with each though....but you will get the few on here trying to talk you into the SR....What do you want to do with the car? Drag, auto-X, Track days, Daily?

[ggzilla]

Go with the KA! -- much lighter, and only 500cc difference.

[vgwagon]

Go with the KA! -- much lighter, and only 500cc difference.

Prove it, the KA is a tank you know.

The VG30e was the lightest production V-6 when it debuted.

My wagon gained 90 lbs from the conversion.

The VG and the KA aren't far apart as far as weight is concerned from all that I have read.

 

Power wise is a different story, my VG30e puts 191hp to the wheels and 205 ft/lbs of torque, with just headers, 4.5 degree retard cam gears and a Pathfinder intake.

A KA24DE power wagon the same day/same dyno put 136hp to the wheels and about that in torque, and a sedan with KA24DE put 139 down with 2.5in exhaust.

Both are good motors, to each their own.

The best advice is to go with what is available to you the easiest. The VG30/VG33 has a couple of affordable install kits floating around the $1000 dollar mark that come with headers, engine/trans mounts, and a custom oil pan that allows you to maintain rear sump oiling and stock style swaybars.

KA24's are a different story, most people flip the crossmember, which now renders any off the shelf swaybar useless to you, the oil pan is now up front to take the brunt of any debris, headers need to be modified to fit. Both swaps end up costing around the same in the end if you similarly equip the KA with the included VG30.com kit contents.

Both engines are really neglected in bolt on's from the aftermarket, so most stuff becomes custom.

Power potential I'd tip to the VG based on displacement. Turbo or non turbo the VG should make more power.

If it's a high revver you want, KA24DE, low end grunt...VG30/VG33.

Basically depends on your taste, 4 scoops or 6 scoops, either way you can't go wrong.

[fiveNdime]

Prove it, the KA is a tank you know.

The VG30e was the lightest production V-6 when it debuted.

My wagon gained 90 lbs from the conversion.

The VG and the KA aren't far apart as far as weight is concerned from all that I have read.

 

Power wise is a different story, my VG30e puts 191hp to the wheels and 205 ft/lbs of torque, with just headers, 4.5 degree retard cam gears and a Pathfinder intake.

A KA24DE power wagon the same day/same dyno put 136hp to the wheels and about that in torque, and a sedan with KA24DE put 139 down with 2.5in exhaust.

Both are good motors, to each their own.

The best advice is to go with what is available to you the easiest. The VG30/VG33 has a couple of affordable install kits floating around the $1000 dollar mark that come with headers, engine/trans mounts, and a custom oil pan that allows you to maintain rear sump oiling and stock style swaybars.

KA24's are a different story, most people flip the crossmember, which now renders any off the shelf swaybar useless to you, the oil pan is now up front to take the brunt of any debris, headers need to be modified to fit. Both swaps end up costing around the same in the end if you similarly equip the KA with the included VG30.com kit contents.

Both engines are really neglected in bolt on's from the aftermarket, so most stuff becomes custom.

Power potential I'd tip to the VG based on displacement. Turbo or non turbo the VG should make more power.

If it's a high revver you want, KA24DE, low end grunt...VG30/VG33.

Basically depends on your taste, 4 scoops or 6 scoops, either way you can't go wrong.

 

I'm going to be blunt here but your wrong on some issues here. your right on the weight, VG30 non turbo weighs 360 lbs. The KA24de weighs 368 so the swap so they are so close it doesn't matter. The KA is not a tank though, yeah its heavy for a inline 4 but not a tank. If you compare it to some other inlines from different makers its not that bad. You cant possibly make a good point when your taking modified motors to get power comparisons. In stock form the KA makes 155 HP. The VG non turbo makes 222 HP in stock form.... To your other point, The KA is just as easy of a swap. You can buy kits to do it as well. I personally make a crossmember that you dont have to flip, and it will cost you 200 bucks and I use your core. You can modify the pan to put your sway bar back in...not too hard. Your header point is also wrong. I put a header on my KA 510 with just a relief on the steering box and tranny housing. Again, I am not trying to sound rash, but I cant sit back and know this info is wrong. If you have quesitons on the KA swap I can answer them.

[vgwagon]

I'm going to be blunt here but your wrong on some issues here. your right on the weight, VG30 non turbo weighs 360 lbs. The KA24de weighs 368 so the swap so they are so close it doesn't matter. The KA is not a tank though, yeah its heavy for a inline 4 but not a tank. If you compare it to some other inlines from different makers its not that bad. You cant possibly make a good point when your taking modified motors to get power comparisons. In stock form the KA makes 155 HP. The VG non turbo makes 222 HP in stock form.... To your other point, The KA is just as easy of a swap. You can buy kits to do it as well. I personally make a crossmember that you dont have to flip, and it will cost you 200 bucks and I use your core. You can modify the pan to put your sway bar back in...not too hard. Your header point is also wrong. I put a header on my KA 510 with just a relief on the steering box and tranny housing. Again, I am not trying to sound rash, but I cant sit back and know this info is wrong. If you have quesitons on the KA swap I can answer them.

Fair enough.

 

Here we go then. 222hp stock is totally wrong, thats a VG30DE, the VG30e was only 160hp.

These are also crank hp figures.

Second, add up your costs on crossmember mods...$200 + oil pan mods ~$100 + header ~$100-$200 + engine mounts if you don't want to use lower bolt location ~ $100-$200, so you could be close to $700 bucks plus whatever the shipping of the parts comes too....to me thats close enough.

 

As far as the KA is a tank comment, that was meant to translate as it's heavier than you'd think and the VG is lighter than you think.

You seem to reinforce my statement by saying it is heavy for a 4 banger.

 

Tell me, anything else you want to pipe up about and correct.

Generally speaking my information is sound.

I never said one swap was easier than the other, they are the same really if you ask me as I have done both now.

Depending on what header you have for the Ka will dictate what type of mods it needs to fit, not just one you have found that works as some people may not be able to attain that header.

 

Not sure why you had to be a dick. Even the VG swap can be done cheaper, I was just comparing bolt in kits....is there a bolt in kit for the KA24DE thats complete? If so, how much does it cost?

This is where your point misses what I was talking about.

 

I take no offence from your post and I hope you take none from mine but come on compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

 

 

Just being blunt here.

[Icehouse]

"what is better?" kind of an open ended question..... Really it comes down to personal preference. I'm sure if I went to the track with Duke he would kill my times even though my car has double the power. So relitively speaking you should put the engine in you like. I to like hunting for good deals on parts but hate cutting corners to save a couple bucks. Always buy factory parts, remember in a year when your swapping out the schucks altornator your going to be pissed! (that was me last weekend) The VG is the only engine I haven't installed, I want to install one just so I can check it off the list. I'm sick of installing KA's :)

[goofie872]

thanks guy but i did mean to any one upset :( but for all the info

[]2eDeYe]

Always buy factory parts, remember in a year when your swapping out the schucks altornator your going to be pissed! (that was me last weekend)

 

Truer words have rarely been typed :D

 

goofie872

 

Nobody's angry, take the info and run :D

[fiveNdime]

Fair enough.

 

Second, add up your costs on crossmember mods...$200 + oil pan mods ~$100 + header ~$100-$200 + engine mounts if you don't want to use lower bolt location ~ $100-$200, so you could be close to $700 bucks plus whatever the shipping of the parts comes too....to me thats close enough.

 

Depending on what header you have for the Ka will dictate what type of mods it needs to fit, not just one you have found that works as some people may not be able to attain that header.

 

Not sure why you had to be a dick. Even the VG swap can be done cheaper, I was just comparing bolt in kits....is there a bolt in kit for the KA24DE thats complete? If so, how much does it cost?

This is where your point misses what I was talking about.

Just being blunt here.

 

Ok cool guy, now your being the dick, I was just telling you that some of your points were wrong not that your an asshole. By your figures your still 300 away from the 1000. My kit is 300 for trany mount and crossmember, I use your core and you pay for shipping....there the motor is in...and yes I use the bottom mounts. I wouldn't want the motor higher then it needs to be and lower then it already is. The header is a frontier header, sometimes you can just ask, and people will tell you what they got and where. For me I don't buy kits....I use my skills. :D

[goofie872]

danm im going to my info an run like a crack head after he stole something :eek:

[Duke]

"what is better?" kind of an open ended question..... Really it comes down to personal preference. I'm sure if I went to the track with Duke he would kill my times even though my car has double the power.

 

 

:D Damn Jeff, I think you are giving me more credit than I deserve. We'll have to see when Canby has an auto-x and track day next year:D.

 

On the topic of which engine, I would say that you should evaluate what you want to do with the car. I contemplated doing a VG for a while, but decided against it cause I just think that the 510 is a 4 cylinder car. Then I got a super good deal on a KA so thats what I went with. I have never driven either so I'm not really the best judge. But when my carb'd KA goes in this summer I'll let you know how it is.

 

Personally, I really want an ITB'd SR20de...

[nismopu]

Well, this question is funny because it just boils down to, SOUND! If you want an amazing exotic sounding car then go with the VG. If you want an engine with tons of aftermarket then go with the ka24de and you have to not care about the 4 cyl. noise. peace.

[ppeters914]

Aside from the slight pissin' contest, great info. As we approach and pass $4 US a gallon for gas, one item not mentioned is MPG. Granted, this has to be stretched due to 4-speed vs 5-speed, rear ends, carbs vs FI vs with a turbo, etc, etc.

 

Scuttlebutt sez the VG gets lower mileage cuz you have two more holes and they're bigger.

 

What're y'alls that are running these beasties actually seeing?

[vgwagon]

Ok cool guy, now your being the dick, I was just telling you that some of your points were wrong not that your an asshole. By your figures your still 300 away from the 1000. My kit is 300 for trany mount and crossmember, I use your core and you pay for shipping....there the motor is in...and yes I use the bottom mounts. I wouldn't want the motor higher then it needs to be and lower then it already is. The header is a frontier header, sometimes you can just ask, and people will tell you what they got and where. For me I don't buy kits....I use my skills. :D

Your right, I am being an asshole.

Sometimes thats what happens when someone pipes up about something and posts absolutely wrong info and blasts me about my so called errors.

I specifically stated "kit" when comparing.

The VG could very well be installed the same way as the KA....so this point is moot.

I've driven both engines in wagons.

The VG is super quick off the line, but the top end tails off. The KA24DE has about the same top end, but it's missing the bottom end grunt of the VG.

Here is a link to the two cars side by side.

 

As I originally stated, you can't go wrong with either. Kit or no kit!

 

/asshole

[vgwagon]

Aside from the slight pissin' contest, great info. As we approach and pass $4 US a gallon for gas, one item not mentioned is MPG. Granted, this has to be stretched due to 4-speed vs 5-speed, rear ends, carbs vs FI vs with a turbo, etc, etc.

 

Scuttlebutt sez the VG gets lower mileage cuz you have two more holes and they're bigger.

 

What're y'alls that are running these beasties actually seeing?

I get about 18mpg in the city, and about 26mpg on the freeway(3200rpm @80mph) verified 3 times on trips to shasta.

This is all on a motor that has 300,000+km's.

Not sure what the KA's get.

[fisch]

I'm with ppeters on this. Great info, even with the grunt.

 

Has anyone put the vg30 non-turbo in a 521 pickup? Got some great info on the thought of swaping it into a 620 here.http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=1231&highlight=vg30eI'd imagine you'd run into the same issues with the torsion and steering clearance. (Though Nismo had some cool ideas to get around that.) But has anyone actually tried it in a 521 or 620?

[vgwagon]

I'm with ppeters on this. Great info, even with the grunt.

 

Has anyone put the vg30 non-turbo in a 521 pickup? Got some great info on the thought of swaping it into a 620 here.http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=1231&highlight=vg30eI'd imagine you'd run into the same issues with the torsion and steering clearance. (Though Nismo had some cool ideas to get around that.) But has anyone actually tried it in a 521 or 620?

 

I've seen one in a 620.

Here are some pic's.

[fisch]

I've seen one in a 620.

Here are some pic's.

 

Woah! that puppy is carburated! I didn't know they came that way. Now it would be even cooler to have one in my 521! Old school and new school. Plus EFI makes my amature-wrenching-self a little overwhelmed. I am just starting to understand carbs.

 

Why put in a domestic V6 when you can have the nissan equivalant! Other than the ease of finding domestic, and prolly the cheapness of parts?

 

I just think a nissan V6 with a fat carb is cool! And so clean!

[fisch]

Found this photo of a vg30S which I guess is the true carburated VG. Were they available anywhere but australia?

 

[fiveNdime]

Your right, I am being an asshole.

Sometimes thats what happens when someone pipes up about something and posts absolutely wrong info and blasts me about my so called errors.

I specifically stated "kit" when comparing.

As I originally stated, you can't go wrong with either. Kit or no kit!

 

 

Dude you obviously cant read. I said you were right on some of the issues. The info was all right I just compared a different VG...My bad...but at least I can admit when I'm wrong. :lol:

 

That video is pointless, the VG didnt win by much seeing how it had more power and weighed less....good comparrison hahaha

[ppeters914]

Found this photo of a vg30S which I guess is the true carburated VG. Were they available anywhere but Australia?

 

My guess would be Japan and Australia/New Zealand.

 

According to the VG Wiki , the VG30S only came in the Cedric Y31. However, according to the Cedric Wiki, the Y31 had the VG30E and VG30ET (amongst other engines.

 

A post on the VG forum says little is known about the VG30S other than it gave crappy mileage.

 

Whatever....VG's look and sound great.

 

Yo, fisch, you ever check your PM's?

[vgwagon]

Dude you obviously cant read. I said you were right on some of the issues. The info was all right I just compared a different VG...My bad...but at least I can admit when I'm wrong. :lol:

 

That video is pointless, the VG didnt win by much seeing how it had more power and weighed less....good comparrison hahaha

Dude, I can read just fine!

Apparently you have trouble with reading.

 

You are proving to be an i***t right now.

One second and 8 car lengths isn't alot????

 

Just so you know, the VG wagon weighs 300 pounds more than the KA wagon in the video.

 

Here is a snip of my original post, take another look and tell me what is so wrong with my info.

 

Both are good motors, to each their own.

The best advice is to go with what is available to you the easiest. The VG30/VG33 has a couple of affordable install kits floating around the $1000 dollar mark that come with headers, engine/trans mounts, and a custom oil pan that allows you to maintain rear sump oiling and stock style sway bars.

KA24's are a different story, most people flip the crossmember, which now renders any off the shelf swaybar useless to you, the oil pan is now up front to take the brunt of any debris, headers need to be modified to fit. Both swaps end up costing around the same in the end if you similarly equip the KA with the included VG30.com kit contents.

Both engines are really neglected in bolt on's from the aftermarket, so most stuff becomes custom.

Power potential I'd tip to the VG based on displacement. Turbo or non turbo the VG should make more power.

If it's a high revver you want, KA24DE, low end grunt...VG30/VG33.

Basically depends on your taste, 4 scoops or 6 scoops, either way you can't go wrong.

I've highlighted some of the areas you had issue with, and I am still unsure why.

I like both motors, I have a KA24DE for my 64 roadster, I have a VG33e that is replacing the VG30 in the wagon, and I have a VG33et that will go into my 73 240z.

I'm not hating on one or the other.

The kit comment is for those who value there time and just want a bolt in time saver.

I bought the kit not because I don't have the skill to make my own but that the cost of the kit was cheaper than my time would be making it and it was ready to go with little down time.

Also headers were a real bonus for my particular swap as there are few sources for the VG to begin with, and they need modification to utilize in the 510 chassis. $1000 buck for the VG30.com kit is a good deal.

I think it would be a good idea for you to engineer the same kind of kit for the KA24DE don't you think?

Kit would include engine mounts, tranny mount, oil pan, cross member and header to fit.

On that note, the engine mounts can be reworked to use the stock cross member bolt location without raising the motor for those that don't want to use the lower bolt location.

Lets just get along from here on.

This is getting old.

You are right, and I am right.

You are wrong, and I am wrong.

These are just my opinions.

[vgwagon]

Here are some pics of the KA swap I did.

[fiveNdime]

I think it would be a good idea for you to engineer the same kind of kit for the KA24DE don't you think?

Kit would include engine mounts, tranny mount, oil pan, cross member and header to fit.

On that note, the engine mounts can be reworked to use the stock cross member bolt location without raising the motor for those that don't want to use the lower bolt location.

Lets just get along from here on.

This is getting old.

You are right, and I am right.

You are wrong, and I am wrong.

These are just my opinions.

 

Just to let you know, I am not an idiot like you say! I still dont think that drag race was a valid point maker.

 

I have a kit just to let you know! Its actually more then you think...I make the front crossmember and tranny crossmember. I also have a throttle calbe kit and mounts, I have a poly bushing for the tranny, aluminum radiator, and more.....I just dont advertise, cause I would rather poeple learn how to do it....make it and then appreciate it more, like I did.

Kits are not bad..I will buy one for my fj20det cause its not your average bolt in deal. Granted its worth your time buying a kit, but I love fabricating something from nothing....:cool:

 

Now we can get along....just fine I hope! I cant get a pic of my swap right now cause the datto is under my truck.....hahaha