spec-bre Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 I am in need of info regarding pulling the head off a stock A14. Looking for shortcuts and FYI's. Can this be done by leaving the Intake and Exhaust bolted to the head or is it even worth it? Does the timing chain need to be wedged like an L series? Any info would be great!! I have an auto X next Sunday and would like to give the B210 a go beings the 510 is down for the winter... Quote Link to comment
josh_t Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 AFAIK you can do it with the intake and exhaust on, you just have to remove the exhaust pipe and other things attached to the intake and exhaust manifolds. you dont have to wedge it since its a push rod motor. you do have to drain all the coolant out or you will have a huge mess on your hands. sometimes if the head doesnt want to budge you can unhook the ignition and bump the starter and the compression will pop off the head for you. make sure you mark which push rods went where and where the head bolts were if you arent using new ones. Quote Link to comment
DRIVEN Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Also note that the center headbolt on the passenger side is also the oil passage for the rockers. The headbolt may be different and needs to go in the same spot. The rest don't matter. Adjust the valve lash when you're all done too. You can pull the intake/exhaust if you want or leave it on. Whatever's easier for you. There was an old mechanic trick back in the day to torque the 2 rear bolts an extra 5 lbs. I don't know that it really matters though. Doing an A-series head gasket it about as easy as it gets. Shouldn't take more than 2 hours with standard issue tools. Quote Link to comment
josh_t Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 i forgot about that little bit of info on the "oiling" bolt. good thing you got here. Quote Link to comment
spec-bre Posted October 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 thanks for the info guy's! feeling better about it already. I had forgotten about the a series being a push rod engine. If I leave the intake and exhaust on will I need more then just the head gasket? Quote Link to comment
DRIVEN Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Valve cover gasket maybe. Change the oil when you're done. Quote Link to comment
josh_t Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 sometimes you can get away with the old VC gasket. sometimes. and i would change the oil for sure and you will need some anti freeze to refill what you drained. Quote Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 My record was 45 minutes to change a head gasket. Very easy. Steps from memory: (I may be forgetting a couple steps-check the manual). Remove aircleaner. Unhook fuel line and plug. Unhook throttle cable. Remove exhaust pipe from exhaust manifold. Pull spark plug wires, label before you pull. Pull valve cover, check and save valve cover gasket (very reusable as long as it is intact and not leaking). Unhook radiator hose from head, plug or shove it up so you don't spill too much. Loosen rocker arm adjustments up. Use a piece of cardboard mark fan location pull headbolts and push rods and stick through cardboard to keep track of which location. Pull head and manifolds as one unit. Don't move it too far, just set aside in the engine bay. Inspect and clean surfaces. Check for level on the head and block. Wipe up oil, radiator fluid other crap from block. Check underside of head, head gasket, and spark plugs while you're in there. Put new head gasket on and balance manifold and head, start a couple of headbolts finger tight to hold it down. Put in pushrods and other headbolts fingertight. Make sure you got the middle oiler bolt in the right place! Tighten headbolts in the correct order with a torque wrench. Set to TDC and adjust valves, you will need to rotate the engine with your hand to do all the valves (check the manual I'm a bit fuzzy on this part). Doublecheck that everything looks right. Put valve cover back on, hookup exhaust and everything else you disconnected earlier (throttle cable, exhaust, fuel line, spark plug wires, etc...) Check fluid levels, do a second sanity check to make sure everything got hooked back up correctly. Start car and listen for bad noises. Drive car and enjoy! :thumbup: Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Be absolutely sure that you get the block and head surfaces CLEAN. The success of the gasket change is directly related to this. I use a wire wheel and take extra care on the soft aluminum head. Easy does it. Put the motor at TDC and you only have to put rags in two cylinders to collect the dirt and removed gasket dust and chips. If you leave the carb on, only tilt the head up enough to clean it, avoid turning upside down. Clean the threaded bolt holes so that rust,dirt of any gasket material does not cause the bolt to tighten to torque before fully clamping down on the head. I use an old head bolt and grind the threads off down the length and loosely tighten into the block. The threads will push the dirt ahead of it. If you rub a little wheel bearing grease in the groove it will trap the dirt so you can remove it. Did this on my thermostat housing. Turned it in and back and forth and removed it with all the crud. Now the bolt tightens in properly and the grease protects the steel threads from corrosion too. . Quote Link to comment
spec-bre Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Thanks again for all the help guy's!! I still have not purchased a manual for the B210 because I am not sure what It's fate is . Update on the head gasket change.... Holly Crikies that dude came apart fast!!!! I had no power tools and the caution of a 1st timer and after getting the lil guy pulled back into the shop and getting my tools gathered up, it was just under an hour and the head was on the bench!! Been a long time since I have messed with a push rod engine. After getting everything off the car I wanted to reinstall the heat shield between the intake and exhaust (I forgot it when I went through the egr/emissions removal) and felt this would be easier on the bench than bent over the car. I did as suggested on the processes and it was a breeze!! Then I checked the head with a straight edge and feeler gauges and it was warped. .01300 out in the middle. So off with all the intake and exhaust bits and to the mill we go!!! After getting it blocked up on 1-2-3 blocks and clamped down I dialed it in and it looked good to go so in goes the fly cutter and .01500 worth of aluminum later I had a flat head surface. Now as for the gains of this on my engine will be little other than get me running again and give half a chance the head gasket will last is all I can hope for.... Cylinder #4 is in very bad shape. I would guess the head gasket has been junk for a long time by looking at cyl 4. Pre Detonation and coolant have pitted the piston and chamber in the head badly. I can wiggle the piston enough you can see oil smush up around the top between the piston and wall. Not going to mess with it at this point. The 510 is my main concern and the 210 is a toy. Momma would kill me If I decided other. After bolting everything back together, cold adjusting the valves, adding coolant, oil, hooking battery up and a prayer I turned the key............................... and............................. and.................... FIRE!!!! rattle rattle a bit then it started to smooth out. It has a definite miss on 4. You can pull #4 wire and hear zero difference in the engine. I let it run for roughly 1 hour and it appears to be as good as it going to get which is much better than it was. It will get me through the fun run on Sunday (I hope) and then we will see about the winter :P. Quote Link to comment
josh_t Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 good and bad man. sucks about the shot cylinder. it would be a fun rebuild. Quote Link to comment
metalmonkey47 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 It's an easy job and shouldn't take you more then an hour or two if you're dedicated. Might was well just order a 'head set' from rock auto. Quote Link to comment
spec-bre Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 OK Guy's new question;) How hard is it to pull the pan? Can it be done in the car without pulling the engine? Do I need to pull the cross member or jack the engine up? I am in need of an A14 piston and rings, stock bore. This is a "quick fix" for a through away engine. Race is on Sunday and I want more than the 10psi compression I currently have in #4!!!:blink: It's true!!! only 10 psi compression. Quote Link to comment
spec-bre Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 ASAP!!!!on the piston!! I will pay all shipping cost and what you might want for the piston and rings. Quote Link to comment
DRIVEN Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Sorry, can't help you out with a piston. I'd just pull the engine if you need to pull the pan. It won't take much longer than when you pulled the head, just motor mounts and bellhousing bolts. Did you look close at those valves? 10# is reeeeally low for bad rings. Quote Link to comment
spec-bre Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Piston located and payed for!! should be here Wednesday. I'll check the valves. Quote Link to comment
josh_t Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 i would make sure of the valves too. i am currently working on a v-twin kohler lawn mower engine that was in a flood and the valves seem to not seal at all. there is no compression. and i have never seen rings so bad as to get 0 psi compression. i had a go kart that i sold one time that the owner ran it out of oil after i sold it and it would sieze up and he would break it loose and start it up. (he was kinda dumb) and when he brought it into school we pulled the head and the bore was like sand paper. i had never seen a cylinder that bad b4. we wiped the aluminum powder out of the cylinder and put oil in it and it fired right back up. we even re-used the head gasket with some copper spray on it. that motor was already low on compression since it was an all original 1978 briggs 5hp. Quote Link to comment
DRIVEN Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Don't just check to see if they're burnt. Make sure they aren't simply hanging open. Old gas can stick them in the guide. 1 Quote Link to comment
josh_t Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Don't just check to see if they're burnt. Make sure they aren't simply hanging open. Old gas can stick them in the guide. had that happen before on a push mower. the stuff it was trying to burn was so gummy that when the valve opened it was stringy between the valve and the seat. it wouldnt run properly until i cleaned it out. i was all gummed up in the port partially blocking it and everything was sticky. Quote Link to comment
spec-bre Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Well I pulled the head back off again today after work and spun the engine to reveal a very poorly scored #4 cylinder wall. I am heading back down to the shop to see about getting the pan off and removing the piston and rod. I will hone it out as best I can (Keep in mind I'm not worried about longevity) Trying to get new valve seals overnighted and plan on popping the valves out of bank 4 to have a looksie. I had roughly 150psi in 1,2, and 3 so I will not mess with them lest I get seals. Thanks to Will for getting the piston in the mail and you guy's for all the input!! Quote Link to comment
josh_t Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 thats pretty good compression. a few people said mine was great and it was all between 155-162. i know of a few people who had about 30psi less than that. Quote Link to comment
josh_t Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 yea id definitely say that if your head and piston look like that then your valve sealing surfaces might not be doin so good. Quote Link to comment
spec-bre Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 yea id definitely say that if your head and piston look like that then your valve sealing surfaces might not be doin so good. Give me a second and I'll have a couple pics of #4 piston ;) PS You can pull the rods and pistons without pulling the engine!! Just did it tonight! About an hour and #4 was out of it's home being admired by me and my buds. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Well I pulled the head back off again today after work and spun the engine to reveal a very poorly scored #4 cylinder wall. I am heading back down to the shop to see about getting the pan off and removing the piston and rod. I will hone it out as best I can (Keep in mind I'm not worried about longevity) Trying to get new valve seals overnighted and plan on popping the valves out of bank 4 to have a looksie. I had roughly 150psi in 1,2, and 3 so I will not mess with them lest I get seals. Thanks to Will for getting the piston in the mail and you guy's for all the input!! Just a thought... If the bore is really over size from wear stock rings may have to big an end gap and leak compression. If buying rings anyway get the next over size and file them down to get a good seal. ??? Quote Link to comment
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