Repost from the 510 Realm: Has anyone looked at getting some of the front trim reproduced?

[hammer_down]

This is the tail end of a post I started on the510realm. It is concerning the front fender eyebrow trim but it aplies and soon will aplly to many other parts that are unique to the PL510. We need to start thinking as a community of 510 owners and pool our resources (time, expertise/money) to start getting alternatives to the OEM pieces... Here is the link tot he post and then below is reposted my latest post on that thread:

 

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15516

 

The rolled end version of the eyebrown trim is the 1968 and maybe 69 version. The opened end version would have been cheaper to produce thus why Nissan chose it. I have not yet talked with a Metal stamping fabricator but I have consulted with a local PIM (Plastic Injection Molding) manufacturer and here is where we are:

 

Tooling: 8k to 10K minimum for a RH/LH tool. <figured as much but it is a reality check>

 

Min lot size (pretty much across the industry to keep cost per item down): 500 piece (so 250 pairs). Less pieces = more $ per piece

 

Cost per peice with metalization: $20/piece min (no retail/wholesale mark up nor handling, packaging nor shipping to final end user fees. Labor is not free, nor is shipping)

 

So in a nutshell, $20k to get 250 pairs produced and a bit more to get it to the end user.

 

That is $80 a pair with no mark up, nor handling charge, nor packaging, nor shipping which of course is unrealistic. The person(s) organizing such an enterprise would need to have all costs covered and should be able to expect a fair return of 30 to 40% I would think, minimum.

 

Estimating packaging, handling and shipping to be somewhere between $10 and $15/pair and a 40% mark up we are looking at around $130/pair for chrome plated injection molded plastic fender eyebrow trim, that would probably look excellent. Do we have 250 folks in the 510 world willing to front (or invest with) someone here (me?... maybe) $130 to $140 each to fund this and then get one pair of eye brow trim for there investment plus the ability to by replacement trim in the future? The roll on to this is that after the first run, the next run would be less expensive to produce because the tools are already paid for.... It would ensure that one of the vital pieces for the 510 are still available to the 510 community. IMHO, a 510 looks odd without with eyebrow trim.... incomplete and unfinished at best.

 

Another idea that has been tossed out there is to look into producing the eyebrow trim in composite. Futofab (Dave Patten) is kicking it around.... There is an investment risk there for him that he needs to seriously consider. On the upside, Futofab has been having good results with thier "chromed" composite bumpers so they chould do the same for the eyebrow trim IF it is feasible for them to be produced.... If the small size and thin section of the trim piece creates issues with the qualtiy of the end product, maybe it would make more sense to create either a one piece composite headlight surround that incorporated the eyebrow trim OR a complete one piece grill-headlight surround-eyebrow trim in composite.....

[INDY510]

good luck with that.....

 

 

 

$20k for trim pieces. . . . . . . . . . like a BAWSE!!!!!

[Icehouse]

That would be cool if somenone would start building the stuff. It's tough to find lots of 510 parts these days. I wonder how many 510's are left though..

[Braden]

more than you think, but probably less than half of them are in running driving condition. there are Parts theyt are hard to find. the z car parts are reproduction stuff, why cant we have 510 stuff too? i wish i lived in a bigger city where we had people that could make this sor of thing

[Laecaon]

My only problem with this is that the trim is currently stainless steel(brushed) right? not chrome. Chrome would look funny next to the other trim pieces.

[hammer_down]

good luck with that..... $20k for trim pieces. . . . . . . . . . like a BAWSE!!!!!

 

We need to start somewhere. Keeping 40 year old cars on the road and looking near original (where is counts) is expensive. If the interest can be shown by the 510 owning community, then someone will be commit to it. Maybe it is the whole community (okay, only 250 needed this time a round) putting in $140 each (some sort of legal mumbo jumbo inserted here) to fund this and 6 to 12 months down the road we will have a viable source of replacement eyebrow trim. There would be 250 happy 510 owners after the parts were made and that would be the return on their investment (they would get a pair shipped to thier door) when all was said and done and the those that needed the part in the future would have a source. Most likely after the initial investment is cleared off the books, the price per pair will tumble to less than $100/pair. The cost to do the tooling had to be about the same (infaltion adjusted) for the dash caps, and same for the current tail light lenses that are repro's. Some one saw the potential to make a profit and thus made the investment in the tooling to get those done. So $20k for tail light lenses was "BAWSE" so maybe the eyebrow trim could be too. will a single person do this for eyebrow trim? Probably not at this time, but I think for $140 each, 250 PL510 owners could. Then sell or pass on the rights to produce and sell them to one of the current resoration parts companies... It costs money up front, no doubt about it. I think if companies/investors saw that the PL510 community was willing to spend reasonable money to keep their 510's looking good, they might pony up the money themselves and start making these NLA parts for our cars.

 

Problem is, 510's are still too cheap to buy and thus, they attract cheap owners that are unwilling and/or unable to afford to properly maintain thier cars. This is slowly (too slow) changing, as nice examples of 510s are selling for over 5 times their original sticker price. Nearly 99% of those that I have seen have had exellent looking trim/grills/lenses/dashes etc....

 

Side note:

I think the whole grill assembly including the surrounding trim is vital to a 510's look. Without it the vehicle looks trashy, IMHO. Unfinished maybe to put it in a nicer way.

 

Hey look, even Pete thought the 510 racer needed to keep it's eyebrow trim...

http://datsun510.com/photopost/data/500/BRE510_1600x1200.jpg

 

Though Don decided not but even his beautiful wide fendered tube frame 510 looks incomplete without the trim....

http://www.pdm-racing.com/features/510-66.html

[hammer_down]

My only problem with this is that the trim is currently stainless steel(brushed) right? not chrome. Chrome would look funny next to the other trim pieces.

 

We might be able to "play" with finishes to get it to have the Brushed Stainless look vs Chrome so as to match the SS piece the buyer may already have. Soon the hood trim will be NLA. The lower piece and the fender trim already are NLA... so it is either restored old parts (limited supply, and $160 a pair for the fender trim, less if you have useable cores) or we look into new alternatives as suggested...

 

Some one contact a stamping fabricator and get a quote on reproduction in stainless....

[VoidDragon]

Generally, metal vs plastic production boils down to this.

 

Plastic is alot more of an investment up front, as the molds have to be of a material that cant bond to the subject matter. in this case, that means metal molds. Metal master molds are expensive. If you look at the modeling community, you'll find that some of the molds used on those little Snap-tite cars cost 100k. Each. No joke here.

But, after the initial investment, costs go way way down, as plastic is (generally) cheap, and the mold will last damn near forever.

 

Metal is usually less of an up front investment, but costs will not do down as much long term, as the cost of metal to fabricate with is usually high.

 

Your prognosis is spot on. This is going to be a hard sell, maybe one that will make or break 510 restoration parts. Most of us (myself as a new Datsun enthusiast) went into this expecting to put more work then money into our cars. Thats kinda of why I wanted a Datsun. I knew parts were gonna be hard to come by, if at all. I knew that fabrication was in my future. If I'd been concerned about parts availability, Id have bought a Chevrolet.

 

But alas, Im about to go philosophical on your thread. The old car community has tough times ahead. More and more laws make old cars less and less attractive. Cities are passing ordnances against having old cars sitting in your yard. EPA and smog regulations get tighter. Gas gets more and more corn syrup in it. More and more old cars are getting crushed for the metal then are gettign restored.

 

Very very soon, the car culture of America is going to very different then what we have now. Very very soon, there will not be resto projects to be found.

[Nismoron]

I would be very interested in some real stamped metal repro's, but not interested at all in chromed plastic unless they make a whole set of the entire front end. Grill too! I'm very picky about stuff matching. Sorry to be unsupportive, but just being honest. :unsure:

[jesusno2]

Datsuns are a guilty pleasure for most, the rest of the general population, they could give a fuck less. Kinda like a harley davidson VS honda motorcycle. If our cars were 67 68 69 ford/chevy/mopar parts they will sell well, americana items always do be a car/truck ww1 ww2 era antiques etc etc. Most datsuns were kinda looked at POS cheap vehicles, as some of us look at kia,s (who the fuck would repop kia parts right??) This is how I see it. Now I like my 510 and I do wish more parts were avaliable, On the other hand I understand why their not, especially expensive high grade SS trim peices, glass, sheetmetal their way to expensive to produce and you turnaround from your investment would be non exsistant, or such a slow process you might die before it pays for itself lol! That's my take on it, take it or leave it.

[Pedro]

I looked into getting bumpers restamped, was also around the prices you are stating. Even then you aren't guaranteed that the quality will be up to scratch. Even if they are, you are still out of pocket probably for a minimum of 2 years to sell a bunch just to make your money back, not a good business model.

 

Composite is the way to go, material costs are cheap generally.

 

Does anyone have any pics of the futofab chromed carbon bumpers?

[kmc63]

I would be very interested in some real stamped metal repro's, but not interested at all in chromed plastic unless they make a whole set of the entire front end. Grill too! I'm very picky about stuff matching. Sorry to be unsupportive, but just being honest. :unsure:

I always wondered,what happens to the original dyes after a particular car model is discontinued. fenders,doors,quarter panels etc......

[hammer_down]

Interesting company, check them out. http://www.protomold.com

 

They will do initial quantities as low as 25 but of course the tooling cost is still the same no matter how many part you order, so:

 

For a part done in ABS with a plain finish (so it would be "finish it yourself") the first run of 25 LH parts would be 5325.50 to my door.

 

That is 213.20 for each part.... Hmmmm, still a bit steep.....

 

If the order is upped to 100 pieces, the the price comes down to $59.92 per peice. Better plus the tooling is paid for at that point.

 

If the parts are LH and RH in the same order, tooling costs are combined and while slightly more, not times two.

 

Other plastic materials are available from Nylon to Polycarbonate. They also offer glass filled but include a disclaimer that it can cause unevenness in the finish surface and could cause warping of any thin sections.

 

Since this is injected plastic off a mold, there must be a draft angle, and all the "thin" sections will be thicker than a stamped sheet metal part, but I would believe that it would not be that noticeable, given that most of the 510's I see, even at shows, still have misaligned hoods... :-D

 

I have one side, I think LH, that has never been mounted which we could use to digitize. I will check to make sure. Anyone have the other side? Anyone have a digitizer or access to one?

 

Remember that the latest technology in painting and coating will allow us to closely match the semi-satin finish of the SS trim. Or just paint them black, or body color or whatever you have.

 

I know that the Japanese cars of the 60's and 70's will never have the following of the old Merican iron but I think there is still a decent base of enthusiasts that may be interested and dedicated othe marque/model that they will spend a certain amount of money to try and keep the vehicle looking complete. Companies make various trim and replacement parts for a mid 1970's Plymouth Duster/Dodge Dart (a POS if there ever was one, IMHO) so why wouldn't someone make NLA parts for the 510? Maybe LMC? Okay, maybe not.

 

Side note: I have an acquaintence that was part of the cash for clunkers recycle chain. He said they would take in the clunker and add sort of silicate to the oil. Then run the engine until it seized. Then send the car off to get crushed. He said one of the most common cars with a desirable drive train were the V8 explorers that were not maintained and thus run into the ground. I was shocked because those are pretty new cars. He said a lot of collectable but "needs restoration cars" also came through and they could not be saved. He said it was really sad. FWIW, those late Ford Explorers had the GT40P heads, though cast in iron. It was Ford's last production development of the 5.0 heads that satisfied the NASCAR production line requirement. They supposedly flow the best of any of the 5.0 heads. Though I am sure they fall short of the Boss 302 (CLevelandtype) heads in maximum flow. I am dropping a 1997 Exloder engine in my Dad's 1967 Bronco....

 

Let me know what you guys think,

Erik Halvorson

[blue72]

I always wondered,what happens to the original dyes after a particular car model is discontinued. fenders,doors,quarter panels etc......

 

It can wind up anywhere. I took this picture in Sao Paulo a few years back.

It's a Chevrolet Bonanza. Very '73-'87 windshield and side windows, Ford Bronco looking pieces elsewhere, unique conglomeration of parts all over.

[mswit209]

this just struck an interest with me and a called a stamping shop by me... what do you know the guy likes datsuns and he said he may be interested in reproducing them as an investment on his part as well..... so im grabbing some trim pieces i have including the driprail trim and winshied trim to take it down there. i may have found a way to get this down for a lot less initial investment.

[Laecaon]

You rock mswit!

[mswit209]

so i went to see this guy and well he couldn't help at all he didnt have any machinary that would be able to handle any tools for this <_< so i guess my search continues...