KAZ24 build thread / compression questions / cam / header / DONE!!

[HRH]

Well, after 3 helicoils in the head for the valve cover bolts, I tightened them all down, and found one more in the back as it stripped ever so nicely. So, took off the valve cover again, did one more helicoil. Now she's all buttoned up and almost ready to go. Going to take the distributor by Joe's tomorrow to have him turn the shaft down on the lathe so it will fit the Z24 timing cover, using the KA drive spindle also so I don't have to change anything else. KA and Z24 are the same length, but the KA uses a star wheel and half moon instead of an offset slot and no star wheel.

The next thing I started looking at is how much different I'm going to have the PCV system. Then I realized the oil filter in it's current location will probably run into the KA manifold. Which means either I'm going to need to use a car manifold that sits up higher, or hopefully the KA oil filter 45 degree snout, will bolt up to the Z24 block. There are four bolt holes on the edge of the oil filter housing, so I'm hopeful that it will be a simple affair, provided it's the right spacing on both blocks. I'd just rather use what I have now as opposed to doing more junkyard diving.

And I didn't clean up the valve cover. Boooo! Figure once I get it out into the garage I may hit it with the wire wheel or some brake cleaner and get it looking nicer. For right now I'm more concerned about getting this project finished and seeing how the end results work seeing as this is still experimental. For not having the rings seated, it seems to have good compression while cranking over by hand. Takes a little oomph, so that's a good sign anyway.

Here's the pictures for today:



Another thing that's going to be a problem is the current outlet for the block vent. I may have to use a 20B block vent that goes out the other side as I think that is going to hit the vacuum can for the intake butterflies. That's another system I wouldn't mind eliminating. I have seen some people remove the butterflies for the variable intake system and weld up the holes, mainly on higher hp applications. Can't remember if that was on here or on a different forum. Anyway the jury's still out on that. We'll see how it works tomorrow. Hoping to clean up the garage and get the motor outside and start getting things transferred over and ready to go back into the truck.

[datzenmike]

The KA dizzy is a CAS how will you make that work?

 

Just use the Z24 dizzy and leave 4 plug wires off.

[HRH]

The KA dizzy is what's going to the rest of the motor though. It already was working, hence I'd like to keep with it since the only difference is the block. There's a 4 wire plug that connects it to the rest of the main wiring harness, thus making me think it's going to be lesser without that information as it probably has a feed that goes to the ECU.

 

I don't want to use the Z24 dist because for one, it's the big body, which means I'll have to buy an 8 plug cap and only use 4 of the plugs, which just looks silly. Two the 8 plug caps are fairly expensive in comparison. Plus, there's no reason not to stick with the KA dist. I'm taking it down this morning to Joe, looks like it will be fairly easy to lathe off some material and have it fit in the same spot.

[HRH]

And here we go after a trip to the Datsun guru! Had to clamp it from the bottom in the chuck, then take off the rotor and anchor it with a point. Pretty tight space to lathe out, but ended up work great. Technically it's .0005 undersize, but I think that's allowable. :P (Half a thousandth, not 5 thousandth)

 

 

[HRH]

So I feel dumb. I've apparently never noticed that the L16 distributor drive gear is LARGER than the Z24/20B drive gear. So I was trying to put the oil pump in with the drive spindle and the damn thing just wouldn't go! So I went out and looked at my pile of dist. drive spindles and sure enough, the L16 was smaller! So luckily it came off with some prying through the oil pump hole, and the correct one is on there now. Guess all I've built is 20Bs so never played with the L16 to find out it was different. ;)

 

 

 

And here's the problem of assembling a motor in the kitchen, and probably why I'm still single. :D

[datzenmike]

So, Matt. How will the KA dizzy work???? It doesn't have an EI module in it and no points, so how will it fire the coil???

[HRH]

Because it's all attached to the existing system Mikey! It's the same distributor that was in the truck originally, the CAS unit is a rotor plate slit thing in the distributor housing, it will bolt up the same, turn the same, and connect to the same 4 plug connector already attached to the truck's wiring harness. Am I missing something here?

 

Got it all set up, just wrestling with how to attach it. May have goofed on the distance because the pedestal height is different. I'll figure it out though.

[Sealik]

 

And here's the problem of assembling a motor in the kitchen, and probably why I'm still single. :D

 

 

That's fuck all...should see my living area :D

Sometimes it's not what's in the kitchen....but in the closet..... :lol: :lol:

J/K

[datzenmike]

Because it's all attached to the existing system Mikey!

 

 

Lou: [Lou hits Tyler in the face] Do you hear me now, stipid FUCK??

Tyler Durden: No, I didn't quite catch that, Lou.

[Lou hits Tyler again]

Tyler Durden: Still not getting it.

[Lou hits Tyler a few more times]

Tyler Durden: Ok, I got it. Shit,....... I lost it.

[Lou continues to beat up Tyler]

 

 

Ok ok I got it now!

[HRH]

:rofl: I was wondering what you were thinking!

[HRH]

Have I mentioned how annoying this project has been and how you really should just stick with the KA or Z24 as a whole? The amount of bullshit I've been dealing with really emphasizes this is "the hard way." Regardless, someone had to do it, and like I said at the beginning, it's what I had to play with.

 

Anyway, figured out the distributor. Had it necked down, only to realize the flange difference was almost a 1/4 inch, and apparently the distributor length was slightly different. So after I effed it up, I brought Datsun guru Joe back to my place to see what he though about the best way to go about modifying the distributor housing/distributor, or both.

 

We came up with yanking the plate out of the Z24 cover, cutting off the flange portion and making it into a sleeve. There is a limiting function in the bottom of the timing cover dist hole that prevents it from going too far down, and there is also a secondary step inside. You'll note there are two bands on the sleeve at the top. The bottom band was where it originally sat just below flush, when it still had the flange attached. That band has to be ground down to match the barrel, then the upper flange which was originally part of the big flat flange laying on top, becomes the new step flange, sitting just inside the housing. So now it all sits flush and acts as a bushing and an O ring seal for the dist.

 

Keep in mind, with no flange, the sleeve doesn't have anything to seal against, so you'll have to silicone in the top edge of the sleeve where it sits on the first ledge.

 

After all this, the distributor fits in nicely and is 180 degrees out. This will require more cutting of the distributor housing to make a slotted adjustment which now is a half inch farther in from the original adjustment slot. Fortunately there is a lot of excess material on the KA distributor. Not sure why that is, maybe since they hung them from the side on the car KAs they figured they needed the extra strength.

 

Anyway, this should clear up the last major hurdle, then we're on to block venting hurdles, oh joy.

 

 

 

 

 

[HRH]

Yep, just test fit the intake, block vent hits the can just like I thought it would. Need to remedy that. By the way, don't start building the motor in the kitchen unless you have a good wide doorway. We ended up taking it out the slider, then getting Buddy's Cherokee and lifting the motor and stand into the back, then took off the bottom portion of the stand.

 

Jeezus the motor is heavy as fuck with all the stuff in it and the head on! :angry: And pissed me off even more I dropped the motor on the crank pulley in the back. Not much, from about 1/2", not hard, onto the carpeted, suspensioned back, but still it irritated me. It was either that or crush my fingers. I then worried over it for a good 10 minutes, turning the crank looking for deflection, took it off, checked out the crank snout. It's probably fine, and not like it hit on solid ground, the Cherokee is pretty soft sprung. Just a big pain in the ass, and nowhere good to grab the motor short of a hoist.

 

I got to thinking really the crank pulley it quite strong, as is the crank. If it can handle the abuse of pulling load and spinning at 6500 rpm and revving up and down, chances are a little bonk on the pulley won't hurt things. I lifted the motor on the stand with the crank pulley and it was fine. And tightening the crap out of belts always kills a weaker link, not the crank pulley.

 

So after all this jackassery, she's in the garage and getting closer to actually being put in the hardbody.

[HRH]

EDIT: IF YOU HAVEN'T READ TO THE END OF THIS THREAD, you cannot use the KA filter housing extension on the Z24 block without using the stem from the KA block. It provides a sealing o-ring, unlike the Z24 which seals with the threads attaching the oil filter to the block. 3-15-11.

 

Okay, here's yet another thing you'll have to do because the regular 1515 Ford filter that you all should be using on your L blocks (same as original Datsun filter, but half as expensive) hits the intake since the intake curls around and downwards on the KA head. This did have the tube that stuck out about 3 inches from the threads. This needs to be removed and an easy way to do it with minimal trouble or shavings is a common tubing cutter. Ran that around a few times and had no problems cutting it off. After that, the KA oil filter housing that relocates the filter farther down is good to go on. It's a slightly different housing. While the bolt holes line up, the Z24 oil boss is bigger, but will still offer about a 1/4 inch of sealing area with the KA housing. Since the oil goes in the center, then comes out into a bigger cavity, there shouldn't be any problems.

 

Conversely this is like a manifold with a little hole going into a big hole. That works fine. But a big hole into a small hole creates major flow issues. I'm going to get a start early tomorrow, really, really trying to get this thing back together and in the truck tomorrow. Only have to manipulate the crankcase breather a little bit more, then should be able to put the intake manifold on.

 

As for the gasket for the KA filter housing, Nissan has one in California as usual, so I'm just going to make one as usual. Which is why an entire drawer of my toolbox is devoted to gasket cutting. :)

 

 

[HRH]

Yessss! ANOTHER issue! :angry: So I went to put the exhaust manifold on. It fits. Sort of. Hits the block breather. The Z24 manifold will fit right on and clear, the only problem is the port spacing is massively different. I'd need to grind LOTS of material to get it even close.

 

So the other option is a header for the KA truck since it will most likely be farther out from the block being not cast iron. Or grind away at the KA manifold, which is what we'll do, but I'm not sure I can grind enough material to make it fit. Hopefully a little of the breather boss and some off the manifold will yield enough clearance.

 

 

[datzenmike]

Use a gasket to make a 1/4" spacer from something soft like aluminum and add extra gaskets. This will space the manifold 1/4" away from the head. Maybe 1/2" would be needed but this should work with longer studs.

[HRH]

I was thinking about that too. But the annoying part is I don't have time or material to make a spacer today, and I want the motor in. Also, seeing as I may actually hook up the EGR tube, spacing it farther away will be a problem for that too since it reaches around the back of the head and threads into the intake. Think I'll try grinding first. I have an extra manifold anyway, so not a big deal if I screw it up.

 

I may still have enough room if I only made a small spacer. Or I could go get some drum sanders and go to town on the Z24 manifold, but then we're back in the same boat with the EGR tube.

[datzenmike]

No! Stick with the KA. I've seen a Z24 hogged out and it was total clown shoes.

[HRH]

No, I meant just the manifold. But I looked at it and some areas would need welding and a lot would need grinding to work. So I'm going to go try and take enough off the block and KA manifold to clear. That's the only way I'm going to get this thing done and hopefully in the truck today.

[HRH]

It's going to work. Only going to have a little over a 1/16" of clearance after the manifold is cinched down, but it should be enough. Had to do a little banging on the breather tube as well. The block had plenty to grind without worry. I ground the manifold, am a little worried about cracks in future, but if it does, I suppose that's an excuse to get a header, right?

 

 

[HRH]

Ah hah, MORE ISSUES!!!! Manifolds are fine now, back to the oil filter housing from the KA. It cannot be used without taking the pressed in fitting from the KA block and using with the filter housing. Reason being as I was cleaning it up preparing to make a gasket, I noticed there was an O-ring on the inside of the aluminum housing. Go over to the KA block and sure enough, it has to seal. The Z24 is threaded, which made the seal as the filter tightens on the block. Using the KA housing with the tube cut off will allow the threaded end to fit inside the KA filter housing, BUT will not provide a seal. Thus, oil that is supposed to be forced through the filter to be cleaned, will end up back-flowing around that non-sealed end.

 

So I'm off to the main store to find a shorter oil filter with the same size sealing ring. Joe gave me a number for the roadster conversions he does where oil filter clearance is an issue. Can't remember what it is, but I should be able to find something that will work. Needs to be short enough to drop at a 45 then get out. About 3" long would work. I'll lose some oil capacity, but hey, all the new motors use really small filters so who cares, right?

[HRH]

Well that was easy. Should have done this in the first place. Went down to the main since all the other stores were closed being a Sunday and all. Took a sealing ring out of a 1521 filter I had laying around. Slightly smaller sealing area than a 1515, and went looking for a small body filter. Found a 1348 filter about 3.5" long, but very small diameter, and fits damn near everything from Mazdas to Mercurys and up to 3.0 liter blocks. It works perfectly and can be weaseled out easily with intake manifold attached. Same thread pitch (most are 3/4-16) and seals with half a millimeter from the inner edge of the flange. Booyah!

 

[Farmer Joe]

man this thing is a frankenstein! lol

 

 

you got alot of shit to remember when you do eventually need parts lol...

[HRH]

Yes, it's quite the little nickel and dimer for parts compatibility. Okay, since I haven't posted anything all day, here's some pictures from about 3 hours ago. I just re-sealed the front cover of the transmission which probably wasn't leaking anyway, but couldn't tell. I know the motor was leaking, didn't know if tranny was as well.

 

Here's something else interesting. On the bottom of the bellhousing there's a little square hole presumably to drain oil/water from the bellhousing. Oddly enough there is also a sticker on the transmission that says about re-installation, SEAL this hole. I'm going to, didn't last time. Figure there must be a good reason, maybe to keep water out of the clutch? Seems like condensation would build up, but maybe not. The L motor tranny doesn't have a hole.

 

Note the clearance between the water pump pulley and the crank. It's about 1/8 inch. Should be fine, the 510 is the same way and I beat on that and never had any touching issues. Shouldn't have any float anyway, but I get a little leary with such small clearance between quickly moving pulleys. Also had to go to the junkyard and get another alternator bracket as the adjuster for the KA alternator only fits on the KA cover. Bottom bracket bolts right onto the block. The water pump was the big issue. I have a '69 no clutch water pump which is hub-centric, and needed an early L16 style fan pulley as the Z24 fits, but the center hole is bigger and the result was major non centeredness batman! So finally found those and I'm in the final stages. As soon as I clean the rest of the crap out of the bellhousing, I shall begin installation and probably will have in the truck in another hour.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to put in a new 02, just figured I'd leave it off until the motor is in. It broke on yanking, as I forgot it was still attached. Motor doesn't come out well with the 02 still attached. ;)

[HRH]

Ooooookkkkaaaaayyyyyy. I haven't been wrenching enough lately because I'm beat. Finally got the motor in. For some reason the KA is way more of a pain to get the motor to fit up to the trans. The L takes no time at all, probably because it's lighter and the mounts don't have locating dowels. At least I don't remember them having them.

 

Anyway, after an ass-kicking day, the motor is in. From the bottom things look good. The oil pan seems to sit in about the right location. Ran out of time and patience to attempt putting in the front diff to make sure she clears. If she doesn't, we're doing some grinder work or leaving it out. ;)

 

After that, need to hook up the front radiator hoses, radiator, etc., all the lines. The motor seems to sit just a little lower now, but it might be my imagination. I'm going to compare before and after pictures. It seems as though I have more fuel line leftover going to my filter. So as if it's kicked to the passenger side a bit more. I did check and the transmission stick is still straight up. :P

 

Okay, going to take a shower, have all my clothes in the wash getting gear oil out of them. (Made a mess resealing the front trans cover, which I just remembered I'll need to check the level on that also. Without further ado, here are pictures. Hopefully in the next few days I'll have her running.

 

Oh yeah, for low ceilings, I had to let all the air out of the tires to get the motor in the engine bay, then had to air them back up because the legs for the engine hoist can't get underneath the control arms. :D Fun fun!

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_nwbTeIN4Y

[HRH]

Talk about a lucky break! I went to put in the starter tonight and it hit on the motor mount. Got it closer to where it was supposed to go, and it's literally a gnat's ass away from the mount and the block. I took an 18 gauge piece of wire and ran it around the backside of the solenoid, it's that close to the block! Go figure why it has a rubber cover surrounding the switched power side of the solenoid. It's a KA starter, I'm guessing a regular L starter wouldn't fit because the solenoid would get in the way of the intake manifold. It goes down pretty far as you can see in the pictures.

 

Only have to lengthen two wires. The oil sending unit wire is higher up now, where the original L motor oil pressure gauge is, so that will need to be lengthened by a four inches or so. The distributor (CAS) also needs the four wire connector lengthened as it's 180 degrees out now, and thus the electrical connector comes out away from the motor and doesn't have enough room to meet the other connector off the main harness on the front of the head.

 

 

 

The other thing left off is this mount/brace, that bolts the manifold to the side of the block via the motor mounts. I'm guessing it was put there for extra rigidity. I don't think it's going to be a problem leaving it off. The manifold didn't fall off the L motor in the 510 when I jumped it, so I doubt it will on the truck too. We shall see. Hopefully there aren't any sealing problems and it's just overkill from the factory. Worst comes to worst I could make a piece of strap to replicate the mount in a smaller form. Now you see why changing a KA truck starter is a nightmare. All sorts of shit is in the way. The solenoid is mounted so far back, you have to take loose the starter and tighten the hot lead first before you put it back in.