KAZ24 build thread / compression questions / cam / header / DONE!!

[HRH]

Well fuck me. Found some unpleasantness just now. I must have had something go through the oil passages. Or perhaps a partial blockage, but either way, I don't think this amount of pitting could have happened without some foreign material. These are the new rockers. $284 my cost, all 12. That's my employee cost. Not happy right now. Debating if I can sand the inside and still have them provide lubing capabilities. Have new rocker shafts. They are all about that bad, with varying degrees of divots and hot spots. :mad:

[Farmer Joe]

those rockers were from the hardbody?

 

what the fuck?!

 

there had to have been shit in the head... didnt you have the head off and to the machine shop?

[datzenmike]

Pull and take the filter apart and examine. Is the by pass ball still there? Drop oil pump and take apart... are the rotors scored?

[HRH]

No, here's the backstory. When I bought the truck with dead motor, I then purchased the current motor that's in it, supposedly rebuilt. Didn't go through it very well, just pulled the pan, gave a look, checked down the spark plug hole with a boroscope and put it in. Started getting rattling noises, thought it was the lifters (mistakenly, or may have been a few lifters) so replaced ALL with new ones. Then timing chain guide spit the first time. Drilled the timing cover, replaced the tensioner and guide. About 6 months later the timing chain plastic broke again, (found that out just an hour ago when I pulled the valve cover to retrieve the "new" rockers to use for the motor), and that's where we're at now. Was sliding the rockers off the shaft and one didn't want to slide off, so I started looking a little closer. All the rest actually slide on the new rocker shafts just fine, hence why I'm debating if sanding with 320 or something might be doable for continued use.

 

I read something on the net about Kawasaki cams pitting in some model and that pitting was a result of lack the surface hardening, which could happen with lack of oil pressure.

 

Another thing Buddy and I were talking about was how the engine oil light always went off, indicating pressure, and Buddy said, yeah, but if you have a blockage, it will still read as pressure, even though it's not getting the oil where it needs to be. Considering the head bolt caps off the oil hole that's mid head on the KA, I had also surmised maybe whoever put it together put RTV on the bolt or something and it blocked off that hole. I won't know for sure until I get the old motor apart. But I really don't want to spend another $300 for valve train shit on this new motor.

[Farmer Joe]

hmmm well guess your in a but of a pickle...

 

kinda seen something similar. my dad bough this oddfire buick motor for his crazy toyota truck.

 

when he fired it up for the first time it didnt have any oil pressure and it made an incredible clattrer from the rockers.. he pulled one of the valve covers to find the rockers had worn through the shaft mount they were on... so all the oil pressure was bleeding off on these gashes that every rocker had made in the rocker shaft...

 

crazy shit.. kinda not relevant... lol.

 

those rockers look like they still had machine work dust in em.. they kinda look starved tho... with the hot spots and all.. weird

[HRH]

Yeah, I didn't check the rocker shafts very well when I put the new rockers on, I now suspect the shafts were already damaged, but the new rockers slid on nice. I'm not sure whether it's foreign matter or lack of oil or both. Fack. This just blows. I could ream out the Z24 lifters, but we already checked and they're not at the correct angles. I wish I could be that lucky. Haven't found any other Nissan vehicles that have the same design but are solid lifters. They'd be a lot cheaper if they were solid.

[Farmer Joe]

yeah i think i was talking to philcas or someone on here about a solid lifter conversion for the KA. i remember hearing about a conversion kit but no stock rockers from any other application that work...

 

id prefer solid lifters in any case just for the reliability after theyve been set..

 

all my old isuzus were solid adjustable rockers... i remeber never havin problems with em... i like the clicky click too... lol.. guess thats why i love L series enignes..

[HRH]

A perfect example of ruining something that worked well. Sure hydraulic lifters never need adjustment, but is it really that hard to pull the valve cover every 30,000 and spend 30 minutes with a feeler guage? Possibly more accurate, but if you know what you're doing, there's not any reason to need hydraulic lifters. And solid lifters don't fail much. I wish I could adapt the L series rockers to the KA head. That would be the ultimate Datsun head. Of course, the KA24DE has solid lifters I think. But I don't have a dohc head or block.

[HRH]

I talked to the Datsun guru this morning and he confirmed my suspicions. If I sand and reuse the compromised lifters, I'll most likely have low oil pressure due to the divots and more premature wear. So it's either buy a new set, or scavenge at the pull and save for a head with decent lifters on it. Going to check the regular wrecking yard first. I'm going to see if I can't find a core head to buy back, provided I can yank the lifters before hand. That might be a little better than just the average car in the yard.

[HRH]

Well piss buckets. I guess I'm using some of the tax refund this year to afford a new set of lifters. Already have them coming. Think I'm going to get the motor together and leave the lifters off the rails, then put on the pan, fill with oil and run a long screwdriver through the dist. hole and turn the oil pump and pre oil everything without the engine moving. That should also eliminate the dreaded first dry start up.

[Sealik]

Well piss buckets. I guess I'm using some of the tax refund this year to afford a new set of lifters. Already have them coming. Think I'm going to get the motor together and leave the lifters off the rails, then put on the pan, fill with oil and run a long screwdriver through the dist. hole and turn the oil pump and pre oil everything without the engine moving. That should also eliminate the dreaded first dry start up.

 

I have the same plan of attack.....but my 'screwdriver' shall be powered up.... :D

[HRH]

Yeah, I think I have a large one that has a head that fits a 21mm socket. I'll turn it with the impact then or maybe the drill.

[HRH]

Just did the taxes, and hooray, getting $742 back. So that will pay for lifters and a few other odds and ends. At least I don't have to worry about that now.

[datzenmike]

 

I pressed the drive gear off a spindle and assembled it and the oil pump. Took an old dizzy apart and clamped a hose to the end for a 'u joint' and used my drill. Never thought of a screwdriver. Hell a steel rod with the end ground (not grinded) down would be even easier. It made weird gurgling sounds and then squeaks as the air was squeezed out around the rocker arms. (Z24) Here it is pissing out all over the cam.

 

 

.

[HRH]

Sweet Mike, that looks pretty nice. I haven't even tried the screwdriver yet, but I have a pretty long one I think will work.

[datzenmike]

Get a 2 foot length of 3/8" bar stock and pound the end flat to fit the pump.

[HRH]

So I started working on this again and had oil pan issues today. The Z24 pan has way more bolt holes than the KA and is also deeper in the mid section. Deep enough that it will probably not clear the extension housing for the front diff. I assume this to be because they used a smaller front diff in the earlier Z24-equipped hardbodies. Or maybe it was spaced down further. Anyway, debating on modifiying the mid section of the Z24 pan or just cutting the flange off both and putting the Z24 flange on the KA pan.

 

The oil pickups also bolt in interchangeably, but the KA runs parallel to the bottom of the block after the first curve and therefore fits a lower profile than the Z24 pickup, which is angled after the first bend. I'm going to use the KA pickup for clearance regardless of which pan is used. (HE SAID EARLIER)

 

I just realized the pickups are different height, so now I need to commit to which design to use. Think I'm going to have to do the Z one and just chop out the center section. Need to find someone with a wash cabinet first, need my two oily pans to be clean before I try and start welding on them.

[HRH]

Here's a picture of the oil pickups.





And since I've started this project, here's the song I'm thinking of right now

[HRH]

AH HAH!!!

 

I decided to watch some tv and stop dicking with the motor tonight. Figured I'd get up early and try and get something done. Then it hit me, the mounts are different for the KA vs. the Z24. I'm willing to bet the Z24 sits up a little bit higher than the KA, which would explain the slight difference in pan elevation. The Z24 might be closer to the top of the extension shaft, but probably will still clear. To verify, I can measure the Z24 mounts on the build block, and then measure the old mounts on the current and dead block.

 

Short of it is I might be able to make it work just using the stock pan, and I won't have to cut or modify anything, which would be awesome!

[HRH]

Okay, I retract my earlier AH-HAH for a simpler explanation. I have a feeling I have a Z24 4x4 pan for a 720, not a D21. I definitely can't have the lower Z24 pan. I can swap the flanges, but that's a lot of work. So I have a feeling I'll check Spaldings for a D21 pan and possibly pickup tube. Which they'll probably say that's too old and won't have one, which means I'll be down at Pull and Save tomorrow looking for an oil pan, which will be quite annoying. Especially since I'm not getting it out unless I remove the diff, which also requires lifting the engine slightly, though I've weaseled the diff out before without lifting the engine. Not easy.

The KA pan has way less bolt holes than the Z motor, and while it would actually bolt up still and I could seal it fairly well, though not along the back edge, the front is different for the different angle of the timing cover. And I can't use the KA timing cover because the crank seal would be to small for the large snout of the Z24 crank. So it's literally all Z24 bottom, and this last thing is the pan.

Fortunately I took a good look under there and I'll be able to tell if the D21/Z24 pan will work or not. It should, but if not, then I'll go about welding the other pan.

[Sealik]

Okay, I retract my earlier AH-HAH for a simpler explanation. I have a feeling I have a Z24 4x4 pan for a 720, not a D21. I definitely can't have the lower Z24 pan. I can swap the flanges, but that's a lot of work. So I have a feeling I'll check Spaldings for a D21 pan and possibly pickup tube. Which they'll probably say that's too old and won't have one, which means I'll be down at Pull and Save tomorrow looking for an oil pan, which will be quite annoying. Especially since I'm not getting it out unless I remove the diff, which also requires lifting the engine slightly, though I've weaseled the diff out before without lifting the engine. Not easy.

 

The KA pan has way less bolt holes than the Z motor, and while it would actually bolt up still and I could seal it fairly well, though not along the back edge, the front is different for the different angle of the timing cover. And I can't use the KA timing cover because the crank seal would be to small for the large snout of the Z24 crank. So it's literally all Z24 bottom, and this last thing is the pan.

 

Fortunately I took a good look under there and I'll be able to tell if the D21/Z24 pan will work or not. It should, but if not, then I'll go about welding the other pan.

 

 

The 'Z24' flange doesn't look right, on the upper right, where it bolts to the block, it doesn't look straight.

Got another pic...?

Definitely not a 83+......almost looks like an 80????....other than the flange.

 

Here is the 83+ 720 4x4 pan

 

[HRH]

I think it's just an optical illusion. The pic you put up looks the same to me. Or at least very close. Debating now which is going to be more trouble, cutting and welding the pan, or a sunny Sunday at one of the only pick and pulls that are open to try and get a D21 Z24 oil pan. Thinking I might have an excuse for a new welding helmet.

[datzenmike]

'80 4X4 pan, very different...

 

[Sealik]

I think it's just an optical illusion. The pic you put up looks the same to me. Or at least very close. Debating now which is going to be more trouble, cutting and welding the pan, or a sunny Sunday at one of the only pick and pulls that are open to try and get a D21 Z24 oil pan. Thinking I might have an excuse for a new welding helmet.

 

 

Correct....that is a 83+ pan....my 'view' was somewhat askew.. :blink: .... :D

[HRH]

Haha. Yeah, I just thought about it, guess there's only one way to get better at welding! Harbor Freight has a nice adjustable auto darkening helmet for 50 bucks, so we're going to go get that and put the KA bottom pan on the Z24 flange. Should work fine. I'll just have to test weld on the bell of the Z24 pan so I can get it right before starting the important weld.