510 L20B EFI conversion - the project is finished!

[HRH]

Nope, the 200sx is three pin, just checked. Should be the same arrangement for the GA16 tps.

[LenRobertson]

This is the most interesting thread here on Ratsun in a long time. It's great you are taking the time to post your project, along with all the pics. I pulled the Z20 from an '81 200SX with the idea of maybe, someday using it for an L20 FI conversion. Watching your progress makes it seem possible to actually do it.

 

"Pull and Slave" - good one. For me it is usually "Pull n Swear", or "Pull n Bleed". The last time I was there I got the carb off a 210 as a spare for my F10. What a little pig to get off with normal tools. Two nuts are easy, one is close to impossible, and the last is impossible, at least with a regular 10mm combination wrench. I gave up on the last nut about three times, then kept trying. I finally somehow got it broke loose. I'm going to heat and bend a 10mm to the right angle before I do another of these. I did that with a 12mm for the L20 Hitachi and makes it way easier. But if I FI everything, I won't have to mess with those nasty carb base nuts again.

 

Len

[HRH]

Yeah, I actually have two stubby craftsman combination wrenches just for those carb nuts. A 12mm, and a 7/16 for weber adapter nuts. They're only about 3 inches long and make getting those nuts possible.

[Sealik]

Here's a good video for you! Finally got the intake completely done, ready for install. Still need to drill the head for the new top bolt.

 

 

 

Somewhat flash backed to the dentists chair after hearing that grinding..... ;)

Anywho....Good tune.........Nugent

 

On another note....I couldn't see what I was grinding when I did the Z24 head in my truck...used a mirror. Guess it helps when your engine is tilted 12 degrees to the passenger side. :)

Mine was the 81 200sx EFI conversion........I upgraded the stock TB to the VG30E (TB)......just about a perfect fit.

 

[RacnJsn95]

This really makes me want to continue on with my Project: Ghetto EFI setup I started a few years ago... Keep up the good work!

[HRH]

Okay, I finally made some more progress! After attempting to once again use the dragster sander to plane the manifold (just had to get that .003 clearance down a little bit more) I effed it up. See a pattern? :) Fortunately this gave me the excuse to buy something I've been needing for a long time. A belt sander. Granted, it's only a 4"x36" from Harbor Freight but it works great, and was conveniently almost exactly the right size to plane the manifold. I needed 11.75" inches of flat surface before the rollers and it provides 12.

 

So, I ground the crap out of it and got it pretty darn flat. Couldn't fit the .003 feeler guage under anywhere, so it finally made it on the car. Got the injectors in, put on the throttlebody just to see how it would fit. Still need to do some plumbing since I'll be using the flapper style mass air sensor. Getting closer anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LenRobertson]

Questions, questions - When you surfaced your manifold, were you checking it on some kind of surface plate (like thick plate glass) with layout dye, or on the head with feeler gauge, or what? Just curious, if I ever have to do one.

 

Do Zs, 200SXs, Maximas all take the same injector, or are there different sizes? I'm showing my ignorance of FI, but yeah, I know almost nothing about it.

 

How did you get the broken injector bolts out of the manifold? They must be pretty small diameter to drill and use an Eze-Out. Maybe you have a steady hand and a keen eye for that sort of thing. The broken bolt in aluminum is something I know I'll run into one of these days.

 

Len

[HRH]

No surface plate, just a straight edge, just like you would a head. X pattern and straight across in the middle and edges. Try and slip a feeler guage under it to see the runout. Eventually I got mine within .002-.003, which is plenty fine. I asked Mike at Sunwest (local account, engine builder/head shop/specialize in Toyotas) what he usually runs a standard aluminum intake manifold at for straightness and he said within .005 is fine, as they flex a lot during running.

 

L series motors and Z series seem to take the same injectors. The ones I got from work fit quite a variety of Nissans/Datsuns.

 

As far as the broken bolts, I left them. I lucked out and the bolts broke in the center which of course wasn't used, and the junkyard manifold I was just taking the injectors out to find good plastic pedestals for the injectors. As far as getting them out, I did try with vise grips, that just twisted off little bits of the 5mm bolt. Not sure how to get something that small out without messing up the manifold. Put PB Blaster on them and everything. I suppose just a really tiny drill bit and even tinier easy out? Never drilled out something that small myself.

[RacnJsn95]

The injectors probably all fit, but they may be different flow ratings. It's been so long I can't remember what they are anymore. As far as L28 injectors go, Green or Tan tops are for an N/A car, and Brown tops are for a turbo car. Turbo injectors flow more. Aftermarket injectors generally wont be color coded like the old ones were.

[HRH]

Yeah, I noticed that. The original 200sx injectors are green. The aftermarket (Mileage Plus) version from NAPA are all black. I'm pretty sure there are black injectors, but not sure what rate they are. The list of cars the same part number fits was pretty large though, so I wonder if they actually are the same injector but different pulse width, as dictated by the ECU? I'm not sure, but either way, I'm pretty sure they'll fit and spit fuel, so that's something! ;)

[Skib]

L series motors and Z series seem to take the same injectors. The ones I got from work fit quite a variety of Nissans/Datsuns.

 

 

they fit the same but there different sizes

[HRH]

That's what I mean though, the interchange for the part number for the mileage plus includes 6 and 4 cylinder L and Z series, so the injector is physically the same, seems the ECU is the only governing factor. I'll double check tomorrow at work.

 

EDIT: I went back out to the garage and the stock injectors for the 280z and the 200sx are both green, so it would seem they have very similar fuel requirements. Haven't been to work yet to check the injector interchange.

[HRH]

The next thing I'm working on is trying to find a mass air flow sensor that is the same as the one I have from the 200sx, but instead of a flapper box, the more common and space-saving round tube kind. I have a theory I'll find the same mass air flow meter to fit other vehicles, and hopefully one of those has a tube, because I'm running out of space. I'm already going to have to relocate the 620 winshield washer bottle I mounted behind the driver's side headlights. A filter of some sort needs to go there.

[HRH]

Well after quite a bit of research, including the book on EFI I bought, which doesn't mention flapper style MAFs, I came to the conclusion that the mass air flow sensor only detects the amount of air entering the system, but does not tell the ECU to add more or less fuel directly, it simply says value A (air) is X amount, apply that to the existing fuel map for stoich or rich for hard accel, etc.

 

Which means I can use any mass air flow sensor I want, provided the voltage parameters are the same and it has about the same number of wires. Now, while this is of course possible, I decided reinventing the wheel was more of a pain in the ass than it was worth, particularly when I did wrecking yard scouting and found that most of the MAFs of flapper valve style are very similar in size. It seems with that system the throttle body size made much more of a difference. Considering the modern SR20 NA motor has the same size TB as the VG30 series in various trim.

 

More importantly, the 280z of the same vintage as the 200sx has the same flapper. The only difference seems to be there is a flange that instead of going to the airbox, has a round fitting like the TB that goes to another tube, through the core support to the airbox assembly. Other than that, it appears to be the same thing. Beg pardon if I skip something, I'm drinking Long Hammer IPA and listening to Thievery Corporation, you can imagine I might be a little mellow, though my mind is trying to race with all the possible thoughts! Thank goodness for ADHD! :)

 

So anyway, my train of thought has derailed now, but I'm fairly happy with the wrecking yard fare tonight. I snagged an air intake tube from an '87 Maxima which only has one outlet on the bottom that needs to be plugged. It seems it will work perfectly for my setup, and the flat flange, now detached from the stock 200sx airbox, will be the ideal mounting place for a flat oval or rectangle K&N filter. Going to see what they have for sizes, then order one and just make a filter box out of some sheet steel.

 

I hit my funny bone at Bryan's earlier an damn it hurts when I twist my arm a certain way, did I mention? I dropped off a shifter tower boot for a Miata. Bought for back when I had my Miata, never did get around to putting it on.

 

Oh, an even though I'm listening to Thievery Corporation right now, which is substantially different, I got an L.A. Guns cd this morning, and I've been rocking out to Electric Gypsy all day with the dog. It's been awesome!

 

So anyway, here's a picture of the setup, not permanent, but in a rough location of working. Had to remove my windshield washer reservoir, trying to find a good place to relocate it. My radiator overflow is in the spot I'd like to stick it, back on the passenger side firewall.

 

 

And what's REALLY interesting is the Maxima intake boot ISN'T cracked?! I couldn't believe it. I'm guessing at some point the owner had it replaced, because that's way too old to escape the ravages of heat for that many years.

[Sealik]

Looking good.

You gonna run an air regulator....? AIS location?

I removed my Weber air filter from my another truck I have.....fit rather well on the airbox :cool:

 

[HRH]

As far as I know, the 200sx system doesn't have one. I'll double check the harness when I get back to the garage after work today.

[Sealik]

As far as I know, the 200sx system doesn't have one. I'll double check the harness when I get back to the garage after work today.

 

 

Actually it does.....you can see it a little 'better' here....stock 200sx metal airpipe fittings/AIS and air regulator connections

 

 

 

 

[Sealik]

Obviously you won't need the air regulator.....if you don't plan on driving it in the winter.....but without the AIS, you won't be able to control the idle.

[HRH]

Sweet! Thanks Sealik! I actually removed it figuring it was some extra vacuum thing since it didn't have a switch and was just mounted to the side of the MAF. I'll re-examine it when I get a chance. I see one goes to the intake tube, where does the other vacuum line go to?

 

EDIT, nevermind, I see it's attached to something inline with the air intake system. I'm not sure if I have that piece or not, have to check.

[Sealik]

No problemo.....actually datzenmike gets the thanks.....taught me everything I know..... :P

The 2 AIS connections basically go on either side of the TB..(to bypass)....one on the IM and the other right in front of the TB if more convenient and or.

[HRH]

Alright Sealik and Datzenmike, I need some help here. First off, can you get some better pictures of where that air regulator hooks up? Second, how the heck does it work? I'm staring at the diagrams in my Chilton's manual after looking at the setup outside. I'm either not seeing some parts, or it looks too darn simple to be able to control the idle.

 

It looks like it goes to a bunch of thermal vacuum valves, which I'm also not going to run. I don't see how it can determine idle though. It seems like it should be able to figure idle out from the MAF, TPS, and ECU? And I'm not sure where these thermal vacuum valves are. They seem to be in the intake manifold, but I'm obviously not using the 200sx manifold.

 

Anyway, I'm going to start vegging, might just go by Joe's shop and take a look at what he's done on his since his truck runs just fine and it's the same setup I have.

[Sealik]

Alright Sealik and Datzenmike, I need some help here. First off, can you get some better pictures of where that air regulator hooks up? Second, how the heck does it work? I'm staring at the diagrams in my Chilton's manual after looking at the setup outside. I'm either not seeing some parts, or it looks too darn simple to be able to control the idle.

 

It looks like it goes to a bunch of thermal vacuum valves, which I'm also not going to run. I don't see how it can determine idle though. It seems like it should be able to figure idle out from the MAF, TPS, and ECU? And I'm not sure where these thermal vacuum valves are. They seem to be in the intake manifold, but I'm obviously not using the 200sx manifold.

 

Anyway, I'm going to start vegging, might just go by Joe's shop and take a look at what he's done on his since his truck runs just fine and it's the same setup I have.

 

 

I removed mine.....but here's an early pic of the air reg assembly.

Wasn't quite enough room after the TB upgrade.

 

 

The 2 hoses that come out on the right side of the regulator are hooked up to the IM, one with a PCV valve (far right).

The other 'end' goes to your airpipe/boot.......basically bypasses the TB. I think the ECU detects a cold engine (head temp sensor) and powers the air reg to close .....or open, depending on engine temp.

 

You can see the blue thermal vacuum valve in my pic....didn't hook it up.

[HRH]

When you say the idle isn't controllable, how much not controllable? The thing still runs, right? Or does it die at idle? I'm not sure if it will make a difference as it's going to have a lump cam to deal with. I'm not using the cold start injector setup, but from what Joe said on the roadster it never needed it. So I know his setups don't have problems in cold. I'll probably go take a look at his. Maybe there's a simple solution.

[Sealik]

When you say the idle isn't controllable, how much not controllable?

 

Good question.......

 

But.....I believe the removal of the AIS (auxiliary idle screw) on the 'stock' 200sx EFI system will not enable you to set the RPM at idle.....?

Never tried it without....so I can't explain any issues in further detail.

[Sealik]

When you say the idle isn't controllable, how much not controllable?

 

Good question.......

 

But.....I believe the removal of the AIS (auxiliary idle screw) on the 'stock' 200sx EFI system will not enable you to set the RPM at idle.....?

Never tried it without....so I can't explain any issues in further detail.