New guy here... new little engine.

[Dime Dave]

What is the origin of the throttle bodies? The spacing looks great for an L or A series head.

 

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Fwd vg30e

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Done with the carbide bit inside the block, now it just needs finishing with paper rolls to relieve any harsh corners.

 

[Master-O-Turbonics]

built something retarted for the turbo.

 

[Bleach]

Retarded... <_<

[67 411]

Do you build your own carbon fiber parts?

If you posted that earlier sorry

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Yes I do, because I currently have access to facilities and molds.

[Bleach]

Yes I do, because I currently have access to facilities and molds.

INCONCEIVABLE! :o

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Finished the main caps.

[RAlly_DatoB210]

This build is pretty cool! I always wanted to try a dohc ka head on an L series bottom end. Best of luck with this one I'll be watching it

[Master-O-Turbonics]

This build is pretty cool! I always wanted to try a dohc ka head on an L series bottom end. Best of luck with this one I'll be watching it

 

Well I thought about trying a KADE head but its rather unknown territory. I have two Z heads (Z20E and a ported Z24) which i'm gonna run one of.

[datzenmike]

Well I thought about trying a KADE head but its rather unknown territory. I have two Z heads (Z20E and a ported Z24) which i'm gonna run one of.

 

 

The Z20/Z24 heads are the same except the Z20E have injector notches and the Z24 intake ports are square with rounded corners and appear a bit bigger. Same valves,volume, cam and springs.

 

These are not good breathing heads even when ported. Springs are only stiff enough for 5-6K tops when new. Valve placement precludes using larger ones or much higher lift cams. A Z head should equal an L head to 5K maybe a bit more on a good day. Normally aspirated a 2 liter L engine is good for about 100 hp, (even the Z24 is only 103hp @ 4,800) and you haven't said what this one is... maybe a 2.1? So on a 2.1 motor making 110 hp with say 6psi boost to protect the non forged pistons and stock head gasket and limited to 6K, maybe 150hp.

 

A very quick 10psi blast would make about 180 hp

 

14psi would theoretically make 220hp.

 

This is optimistic as even with porting and stiffer springs this head will max out much sooner than an L and way before a KA. Need more info.

[Master-O-Turbonics]

The Z20/Z24 heads are the same except the Z20E have injector notches and the Z24 intake ports are square with rounded corners and appear a bit bigger. Same valves,volume, cam and springs.

 

These are not good breathing heads even when ported. Springs are only stiff enough for 5-6K tops when new. Valve placement precludes using larger ones or much higher lift cams. A Z head should equal an L head to 5K maybe a bit more on a good day. Normally aspirated a 2 liter L engine is good for about 100 hp, (even the Z24 is only 103hp @ 4,800) and you haven't said what this one is... maybe a 2.1? So on a 2.1 motor making 110 hp with say 6psi boost to protect the non forged pistons and stock head gasket and limited to 6K, maybe 150hp.

 

A very quick 10psi blast would make about 180 hp

 

14psi would theoretically make 220hp.

 

This is optimistic as even with porting and stiffer springs this head will max out much sooner than an L and way before a KA. Need more info.

 

I've got forged pistons, and this head is just to get the motor running with some miles and break the rings in before the turbo/upgraded head crap happens.

[The Stig]

There MUST be better springs for a Z head somewhere, the Z18ET raced by George Fury in Australia in the 80's was based on a production Z18ET of a S110 Silvia. PM me and I'll send you a pic of the motor (you should see the exhaust manifold). If someone has the JDM FAST(working) on their computer perhaps the part number is available, (although the parts probably aren't anymore). Anyway good effort on the Z motor, and don't believe all the "you'll go blind" nay-sayers... a ported Z head is a better head for a turbo, than any L head simply because the turbo is on the other side of the head and wont bake the intake, injectors, and fuel rail (and need a gay injector cooling fan like an L28ET).

Besides, the HP output capability of any motor is really about how much fuel and air you can feed/flow, limited ONLY by the ability of the motor to stay together.

I dont see why you cant get 180HP I'm not convinced the Z head "tops out before a L head" , but Datzenmike is probably right about the valve springs, but I'm sure the issue has been solved by someone, I've seen a circle track race car with a Z motor doing more than 5K.

 

But I am wondering what did you make the intake runners out of? Q45 runners? I recognise the J30 maxima throttles, can you post a pic of the throttle joining rod set-up?

Keep up the great work, its always nice to see unique projects, not more "me too" builds.

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Schneider makes race valve springs.. the guy I got my engine from races a 200sx and I got to see all kinds of racing z series stuff. He takes his mostly stock motors to 8,000rpms.

 

Somebody has a good eye. Ya those are q45 runners and maxima/j30 throttle bodies. Not a very good fit though lol. Lotsa work...

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Balancing/ polishing my connecting rods...

 

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Big Block Chevy rod bolts for the little Datsun. $47 shipped and good for two sets.

[datzenmike]

Cam, I'm a big fan of the Z motor and I would rather turbo one than an L series.

 

The Z valves are very slightly longer than the Ls so very slightly heavier. The springs 'look' the same as the L series and I've heard that one of the Roadster motors have stiffer springs that will fit the L, so maybe they will fit the Z? Because of valve placement you can't run much larger diameter ones and I think too much lift will make them touch too.

 

The Z24 head looks to have the largest intake ports.

 

The thing is, limited valve lift, valve size, port shape/restriction mean very little to a turbo. A turbo is a great equalizer of motors. Need more air flow? just turn the boost up. What an L will flow at 12 lbs. you may need 13-14 on a Z series head. You get the same amount of air in, so the compression and risk of detonation are equal, you may just have to push a bit harder to get it in is all. All things equal the better breathing L will come on sooner even with lower boost.

 

All Z22 and Z24 motors have cranks that are not fully counter weighted like the L20B/Z20s are. I think the shorter stroke Z22 motor would be better for smooth high revving than the Z24 but the larger motor would out torque it at low speeds.

 

 

 

.

[Master-O-Turbonics]

The California Z20E crankshaft I have is not FULLY counterweighted, but it is more counterweighted than a Z22 crankshaft, but not as counterweighted as a L20B crankshaft.

 

The way I see it, Z head intake ports still look better than most small block chevy ports.... LOL

 

as far as port shape/ design goes, I believe that any improvement in shape of the ports is exponential in your end gain.

If you planning on running 1 bar of boost in your 2L engine, factor in that you are feeding 1 liter of air (200% VE) through each port at boost rather than 425cc(factored with 85% VE) per intake port cycle. that is a 235% increase in air flowing through the port. any restriction or turbulent spot is going to magnify its presence since more air is being moved through the port.

 

From my reading and study, yes, you can make more power, more easily with more boost; but you can really release the engine from being restrained by properly sizing and shaping the ports and intake manifold to properly and smoothly flow air into the engine. The easier that forced air moves into the chamber with the least bit of compressing around restrictions, the less heat will be generated and transmitted into the combustion chamber(very bad).

 

The reason I chose a Z head for the turbocharged engine build is the ability to fire multiple spark plugs at once(NOT WITH THE STOCK DISTRIBUTOR!) in order to have a quicker flame front, and thus reducing required timing advance on the engine. With high amounts of cylinder pressure, flame travel takes more time since more fuel molecules are in the combustion chamber. This can increase the chance of detonation in the chamber by having long flame front travel times(a serious problem in many turbocharged L series heads with quench areas).

By firing two plugs at once, having a very spherical combustion area(small bore with "Hemi" head and very dished piston), and swirl inducing valvetrain setup, the Z series head has enough potential to offer over an L series head to justify the Z head over other alternatives for me, on this R&D engine.

The final step is to move to a KADE cylinder head for further analysis on this theory of having a spherical combustion area with some swirl..

[The Stig]

Its not that I'm a Z series fan, I just have seen a few of these heads in full blown race trim so I know all these KNOWN issues with the springs and valves have been solved, years ago too, cause the guys who raced this stuff in the 80s and early 90s had these motors running well at 8000+ rpm (and have have now moved on to KA spec motors so hopefully the Z race prep secerets will come out), in this thread alone is a tip on the springs MARVELOUS, looks good keep the build pics comin'. If your going to the trouble of a KA head later go with a FWD DE head, its talked about alot on this fourm, google the answers for the chain drive setup, its been done elswere.

 

Master-O-Turbonetics said;

"The California Z20E crankshaft I have is not FULLY counterweighted, but it is more counterweighted than a Z22 crankshaft, but not as counterweighted as a L20B crankshaft."

 

So what's the casting number on that crank, my Z20E crank was a U60 which is a L20B crank, it looked like the counterweights were smaller than (I remember) the L18 c/weights that were in my 610, but the ones on my FJ20 crank are similar so I assume they are normal for fully counterweighted cranks.

 

BTW mike GREAT pictures as always; that comparative of the heads is a great one.

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Block got back from the machine shop yesterday so I went ahead and painted the exterior before it had a chance to rust.

 

As received and masked off:

 

 

Primed:

 

 

Shot of color"Old Ford Blue":

 

 

Got break-in oil too

 

 

And acquired another little goodie for my motor for so cheap I can't say how much LOL :

 

[datzenmike]

BTW mike GREAT pictures as always; that comparative of the heads is a great one.

 

 

I did a mild port job on the passage but it was around the base of the seats that was the worst area. Very rough with burrs from machining and casting marks. I cut away a lot of the short radius, even continuing the improved radius well into the hardened seat. Not an expert, this may even be bad for flow. The injector notches I put in as none of the Z24 heads had multi-port while the two or three Z22(S) heads I have do have them.

 

The two Z20E cranks I have are both U60 and can't tell them from the L20B

 

Here it is finished

 

All the Z20E/ Z22S and Z24 heads I have (two of each) are the same combustion chamber volume, I checked twice. From research I found some discrepancies in volume/compression ration on some Z motors. I figures there were different dish sizes other than those published or a different head of around 45cc in size. Eventually found it was a smaller chamber head about 10 cc smaller than the others.

 

here it is:

 

Note the small quench areas on top and bottom of the chamber

 

.

[sinner720st]

great info mike. keep up the build o master o turbonetics..... i am a big fan of the z as well and cant wait to see some dyno numbers

[Master-O-Turbonics]

great info mike. keep up the build o master o turbonetics..... i am a big fan of the z as well and cant wait to see some dyno numbers

 

Thanks!

I'm doing a pre-assembly tomorrow.

[Master-O-Turbonics]

Main studs came in today.