Turbo A12, need suggestions

[b210in]

hey opelwagen, you have a pm.

[bonvo]

Dude he said that he knows what he wants and to not suggest an engine swap.

Good luck with the build :thumbup:

 

you guys got me wrong

 

not saying there is anything wrong with what he wants to do shit i want to make my l20b into an l20br with a paxton supercharger so i understand the want to keep the original motor just sayong a ka has double the displacement and would make more power for relativly cheap turboing anycar is a bitch but in the case of the a12 he would have to make everything fron scratch or have it made having it made would mean it would more then likly cost more then a ka but if he has welding know how and can make the flanges or possibly get a cheap a series header to cut up it could be done cheap there are even some nice gtr turbos on jnc right now

[ggzilla]

yes that sounds about right Bonvo.

 

 

heres a a14 turbo

The video of the 1200 running down the strip says it has a boosted A14 yet no pictures of the engine. The same author of that video has dyno videos of an 4AGZE in an orange 1200. makes me wonder...

 

That is Kimmo's orange Datsun 1200. He also has a toyoda 4AGEZ-powered Datsun B210.

 

He has accomplished what few A-series engine builders have done with his mighty Datsun A14 engine, it is truly amazing. He has the fastest 1/4 mile time for an A-series in the quarter mile log -- by far.

 

World's Fastest Nissan A-series Engine?

Blow-through twin webers

[OpelWagenGT]

you guys got me wrong

 

not saying there is anything wrong with what he wants to do shit i want to make my l20b into an l20br with a paxton supercharger so i understand the want to keep the original motor just sayong a ka has double the displacement and would make more power for relativly cheap turboing anycar is a bitch but in the case of the a12 he would have to make everything fron scratch or have it made having it made would mean it would more then likly cost more then a ka but if he has welding know how and can make the flanges or possibly get a cheap a series header to cut up it could be done cheap there are even some nice gtr turbos on jnc right now

 

I understand that I will have make everything myself and that is what interests me :). I myself don't know how to weld but have friends and family that do. As for the exhaust manifold cutting up my old set of headers is precisely what I plan to do. I figure this whole thing will be a learning experience and I will continue to come back here to ask questions.

[bonvo]

have you considered supercharging? insant throttle responce and alot less plumbing

 

here is my idea for a paxton on my l20b but there expencive maybe a small eaton off a mini cooper

 

(eaton pic from daves 610 buildthread)

[OpelWagenGT]

have you considered supercharging? insant throttle responce and alot less plumbing

 

here is my idea for a paxton on my l20b but there expencive maybe a small eaton off a mini cooper

 

(eaton pic from daves 610 buildthread)

 

i like the idea of a turbo because of the power band or boost. Superchargers are somewhat foreign to me. I also like that I can to a suck through turbo set up without chainging the carb or fuel pump.

[bonvo]

yeah i see that the only beef i have with turbos is the lag alot of people say that its negleagable with some turbos but i want my power right now i dont want ot wait 2~3000 rpm for my power super chargers since there driven off the crank you get more power the faster the motor spins but only to a certan point and you make power instantly of idle no waiting

[greybeard]

I like this idea.

 

small turbo from a stock car should be easy to find as a take off when somebody upgrades, as you said.

 

have you thought about going FI and not carb.?

 

a Bosch CIS, also known as K-Jetonic is a simple system that can be found on 70's-80's VW, BMW, Volvo type cars. Porsche

 

even used it back in the day. I know it's not as good as modern EFI, but it sounds like thats not the point of your idea.

 

Like this

 

http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/CIS.html

 

its all mechanical, I've seen it used on turbo cars, and can be set up to add fuel under boost.

 

also could be found for not very much $$$$

[ggzilla]

Superchargers have a superior power band to turbo (well, except for the Paxton supercharger which is similar to a turbo). And just as much boost too.

 

Ernie is using a Mercedes 230 supercharger on his A15 and wow it has an electric clutch just like Mad Max!

[b210in]

hey opelwagon, before we make any kind of deal, let's make sure that this tranny will work well in to a12 engine as i'm not completely sure about the clutch set up. i know the a series 63 five speed tranny will bolt on to the back of the a12 engine. does anybody have an idea as to what pressure plate, flywheel, and clutch disc to use?

 

i think that it's the stock a12 flywheel, with a 77b210 disc(because of the different spline count on the input shaft), and a a12 pressure plate. does this sound right? anybody feel free to put in the correct info.

[ggzilla]

Yes, that should work. But I would use the pressure plate from the B210 as it is stronger. The A12 pressure plate is only good for 70 lb. ft of torque. Also get the B210 release bearing and engine plate (A12s don't come with the engine plate).

 

Including the driveshaft is good. For a "140Y" (Datsun B310) you can use the B310 automatic transmission driveshaft with the B210 5-speed. The B210 5-speed is the same length as the automatic transmission. All other 5-speeds are a different lenght.

[OpelWagenGT]

Yes, that should work. But I would use the pressure plate from the B210 as it is stronger. The A12 pressure plate is only good for 70 lb. ft of torque. Also get the B210 release bearing and engine plate (A12s don't come with the engine plate).

 

Including the driveshaft is good. For a "140Y" (Datsun B310) you can use the B310 automatic transmission driveshaft with the B210 5-speed. The B210 5-speed is the same length as the automatic transmission. All other 5-speeds are a different lenght.

 

What do you mean by engine plate? Is it a metal plate that goes between the bell housing and the engine?

[ggzilla]

What do you mean by engine plate? Is it a metal plate that goes between the bell housing and the engine?

 

Yes. Datsun 1200s don't come with one. Some B210s do.

The plate will match the throwout bearing and won't work quite right if you get them mismatched.

 

If the B210 doesn't have it, then don't worry. Just saying get a matching set of clutch, lever, bearing, plate,etc.

 

[610SSS]

Suck thru turbo is awesome fun and cheap, If u run a small turbo u wont get much lag and as said before, U can run the standard fuel pump and carby. Just make sure the turbo has carbon seals.

 

And we wanna see pics of progress. :lol:

[OpelWagenGT]

Suck thru turbo is awesome fun and cheap, If u run a small turbo u wont get much lag and as said before, U can run the standard fuel pump and carby. Just make sure the turbo has carbon seals.

 

And we wanna see pics of progress. :lol:

 

i will post pics of progress... when I have some :blink: Right now all of my money is going towards a five speed transmission.

[b210in]

hey opelwgn, you got a pm.

[OpelWagenGT]

So,

I am back with the need for more information. My question now is this:

 

circumstances: I do not know how many miles are on my engine, I do know that it burns

a small bit of oil but I believe it is because of vavles seals which I

have but have not replaced yet.

Question: What needs to be done to my engine before I turbo charge it (with a small

turbo like I said)

Just a re-build?

lower compression?

Just a valve job?

Nothing?

 

I'm looking to do as little as possibly because like I said this is the only engine I have and the only car so if possible i would like to have the car un-usable for a short amount of time.

[bonvo]

i personally would go all out bore and stroke it (or find an a15 block and rebuild that) new rings bearings valve seals reseal the entire motor possibly have some head work done but i look at as if im gonna do it im gonna do it once and do it right

[Icehouse]

I would just slap the turbo on there and see what happens, Dave's car ripped with 10lbs of boost!

 

I got your PM, if you want me to weld some shit up for you that would be fine, you do the fitting I will do the welding.

[b210in]

opelwagon, you got another pm.

[OpelWagenGT]

Thanks for the suggestions I think that I will do both! What I mean is get the turbo set up all done and see how it works and how I like it then this summer probably rebuild the engine. This way I'll know if I want to keep it that way and i can build up the engine when it is nice enough out for me to walk to work.

[DRIVEN]

 

Question: What needs to be done to my engine before I turbo charge it (with a small

turbo like I said)

Just a re-build?

lower compression?

Just a valve job?

Nothing?

 

I'm looking to do as little as possibly because like I said this is the only engine I have and the only car so if possible i would like to have the car un-usable for a short amount of time.

The ideal would be finding another A12 to use as a mock-up engine on a stand. That would allow you tho have minimal down time when you do the turbo. As far as rebuild? My car sat in a field with a blown head gasket for almost 25 years. The cylinder walls were pretty pitted in #2 & #3. I had the head rebuilt, used a ball hone on the cylinders, replaced the rings and resealed it. I probably had less than $200 total into it. I didn't even replace any bearings - they looked used but not worn. I flogged on it mercilessly for over 2 years before I put the A15 in. Theses are incredibly forgiving little engines. Your compression ratio should actually be pretty ideal for a turbo.

[OpelWagenGT]

The ideal would be finding another A12 to use as a mock-up engine on a stand. That would allow you tho have minimal down time when you do the turbo. As far as rebuild? My car sat in a field with a blown head gasket for almost 25 years. The cylinder walls were pretty pitted in #2 & #3. I had the head rebuilt, used a ball hone on the cylinders, replaced the rings and resealed it. I probably had less than $200 total into it. I didn't even replace any bearings - they looked used but not worn. I flogged on it mercilessly for over 2 years before I put the A15 in. Theses are incredibly forgiving little engines. Your compression ratio should actually be pretty ideal for a turbo.

 

Yes, I would love to have an A12 to play with outside of the car but at the moment the one I have is all I've got. The hardest part is going to be mocking up the exhaust manifold. I think that I am going to mock it up with cardboard tube pieces :) I have access to a lot of those. It needs to be just right before I go and cut up my old headers.

[OpelWagenGT]

So, I am now thinking about doing a blow through set up after talking to people and reading more. The only thing I am wondering is about the "carb boxing". Some of the things that I read say that you need to box up the carb because of the added pressure. Would this be neccesary for a low pressure turbo such as 5-8 pounds?

[bonvo]

depends on the carb your running really the reason to box it is so you dont blow it apart