fiveoneohray Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 So I welded a H190 diff. in a 510 wagon and now he is snapping axles at the taper right where they slip into the diff. :mad: So does anyone know if the truck H190 diff. has bigger axles (more spline count) where the axles slip into the diff? The 510 axles seem to taper quite a bit and I am not opposed to re-drilling the hubs to accept the 4 lug pattern. I also am wondering if the axle width is different. Does anyone know if the H190 out of a truck even fits into the carrier in a wagon? I am kinda concerned about this since the wagon that the diff was welded for is powered by a non turbo CA. Mine will be a VG34 with more than double the HP. Not good. Quote Link to comment
69FJWagon Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 you have to use truck axels and have them modified and use a truck center section it uses 29 spline axels or use a whole truck rear end and shorten it to fit the wagon thats kinda what I am leaning towards if I dont sell my wagon and you can get LSDs for the later D21 truck rear ends as well as gears Quote Link to comment
Icehouse Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 The drum to drum is the same on a 521 as a 510 wagon 53". The leaf mounting point is on inch off. Big deal for anyone with a welder. The lsd unit is 420 bucks from persion gear for the truck diffs and has a 60ft pound break away. Subi's are 40 ft lbs break away. My vote is drill the front for 6 :) run some armada's Quote Link to comment
Icehouse Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 The 320 h190 is 50" drum to drum :) 1.5" per side for add lip :) Quote Link to comment
69FJWagon Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 The drum to drum is the same on a 521 as a 510 wagon 53". The leaf mounting point is on inch off. Big deal for anyone with a welder. The lsd unit is 420 bucks from persion gear for the truck diffs and has a 60ft pound break away. Subi's are 40 ft lbs break away. My vote is drill the front for 6 :) run some armada's hey Icehouse do the wagon and 521 share the same axel tube diameter?? what Im getting at is if the wagon and 521 are the same you could use the axels from a 521 and center section from a d21 hard body in the wagon rear end get the lsd and be done if the share the same bearing O.D. correct? also Troy takes the subi LSD apart and shims them up to around 65-75 ft. lbs could you do that with the LSD for the trucks? I hate spinning the inside tire when coming out of a corner hard (autocrossed a ford mustang for years and hated the factory LSD) so the TIGHTER the better...:D :lol: Quote Link to comment
69FJWagon Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 The drum to drum is the same on a 521 as a 510 wagon 53". The leaf mounting point is on inch off. Big deal for anyone with a welder. The lsd unit is 420 bucks from persion gear for the truck diffs and has a 60ft pound break away. Subi's are 40 ft lbs break away. My vote is drill the front for 6 :) run some armada's The 320 h190 is 50" drum to drum 1.5" per side for add lip :) TIGHT rear ends and big lips.... sounds like a perfect woman to me :eek: :D Quote Link to comment
fiveoneohray Posted November 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 So does the 521 diff have the bigger axles also? If so I think the best solution would be to just keep the wagon carrier and install all truck parts and re drill the bolt pattern. LSD of course. Is there a link to the LSD for the truck? Quote Link to comment
69FJWagon Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 wagon carrier is different, truck is 29 spline wagon is 27 or something close to that Quote Link to comment
fiveoneohray Posted November 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Oh I understand that there are more splines. Thast what makes it bigger. I was asking if anyone knew if the 3rd member (diff) fit into the wagon carrier (diff housing). I would like to just use the wagon housing and the truck internals. Everyone keeps on saying truck diff. but are all the truck diffs using bigger axles? If so, it would make everything easier since Jeff said the 521 diff is the same width. Quote Link to comment
datsunaholic Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Yes. You can also change the side gears on an existing diff to get the larger splines. I had someone build me a wagon diff with truck splines already (was a trade, he wanted the 4.375 gears for his roadster racer, I wanted something for a 2.4L truck) Quote Link to comment
vgwagon Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 The problem more likely is the fact that the diff is welded and not allowing for any slippage around corners, that puts major loads on the axles, and ultimately is probably the root cause of the failures. I ran 191hp to the ground through my open h190 diff for 4 years, and anyone that knows me can attest to how hard I drive my wagon...not once did that diff cause me problems, never broke an axle either. I have since gone to a 1985 rx7 gsl-se rear end narrowed 4 inches and redrilled 5-lug. I did this for the LSD. Welding a diff is bad on daily drivers, meant only for straight line dragsters, even then most hi po cars that are tubbed run spools. I would look at using or copying the phantom grip unit. It does work but eventually wears the diff out. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Yes. You can also change the side gears on an existing diff to get the larger splines. I had someone build me a wagon diff with truck splines already (was a trade, he wanted the 4.375 gears for his roadster racer, I wanted something for a 2.4L truck) Listen to Doug. Swapping the side gears out of the wagon and installing into the truck diff. is the way to do it. This allows wagon axles on a truck diff. Or did you weld up the spider gears? Except for straight ahead driving (1/4 mile) this is a bad practice. :eek: Quote Link to comment
datsunaholic Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Listen to Doug. Swapping the side gears out of the wagon and installing into the truck diff. is the way to do it. This allows wagon axles on a truck diff. Or did you weld up the spider gears? Except for straight ahead driving (1/4 mile) this is a bad practice. :eek: That's not what he's trying to accomplish, though. He wants the larger diameter axles. But that won't keep him from breaking stuff- it'll just go to the next weak spot. Welded diffs aren't meant to make turns, and that's what's tearing them up. Gotta keep speeds very slow in the turns with a welded diff, and freeway driving is an absolute no-go. Also, that much load from binding up turning might have bent the axle tube assembly and put it out of alignment, which would break axles too. Just not a smart idea, all around. Quote Link to comment
fiveoneohray Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Yeah I dont approve of welding a diff but its what he asked for. One thing is though about the theory of not having slip. I understand how slip works. Welding or locking the diff is not only for straight line use. The make spools for road race cars and are used competitively all the time. You cant tell me a spool is any different than locking the spider gears. I am not making a argument just making a statement. I work at a race shop building $150k vintage race cars a couple days a week. Many do have spools. The thing that worries me is I that I will have almost 300hp to the ground. I want traction. If everything works out with the truck diff setup I will go with that. I want an LSD and if they make one for the trucks then that makes it perfect for what I want. I dont need a lesson as to why the axles are breaking, I know its because of it having no slip and this wagon has 16x8 wheels which makes it worse. This just scared me since I am getting ready to finish my build. Quote Link to comment
fiveoneohray Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Okay so if it all works...... I need a 521 truck diff. I would like a complete axle assembly. Preferrably not too far from Seattle. I would also like an extra pair of axles so I have a backup set. Just in case. The gearing dosent really matter since I have 2 wagon diffs with the gearing I want. Does anyone have the link to persion gear that supposedly has the LSD. I couldnt find it on the internetz :confused: Quote Link to comment
69FJWagon Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Okay so if it all works...... I need a 521 truck diff. I would like a complete axle assembly. Preferrably not too far from Seattle. I would also like an extra pair of axles so I have a backup set. Just in case. The gearing dosent really matter since I have 2 wagon diffs with the gearing I want. Does anyone have the link to persion gear that supposedly has the LSD. I couldnt find it on the internetz :confused: PM Fineline he can give you a link... they have a few different ones one for 3.70 - 3.90 and one for 4.11 and up dont know why but Fineline can explain it. do a write up if you do this there are a lot of wagon guy that would love to do this including me. I think it may be reider racing...hold on I will check... ya thats it pg power brute lom103-2 or lom103-7 depending on gears hope this helps :) Quote Link to comment
fiveoneohray Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Perfect! Thanks for the info. I will look it up later and get the ball rolling. :D I just hope this stuff fits Quote Link to comment
vgwagon Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I wouldn't waste my time with the h190 then. The rx7 diff is very strong, known to be capable of holding around 500hp. easy swap as long as you can source one out and have it narrowed. tons of lsd pumpkins available in yards, any rear disc braked rx7 81-85 has an lsd....the 84-85 gsl-se has the correct 4x114.3 bolt pattern and the larger axles. all others have smaller axles but all you need to do is swap out the side gears. autos were 3.9:1 . 5-speeds 4.08:1. My 2 cents as far as differentials are concerned. Quote Link to comment
Icehouse Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 http://www.precisiongear.com/powerbrute.htm There is also differentials.com Dave with the twin turbo vg car had his r180 converted to a clutch lsd by them. They will convert any diff to lsd. Dave said he hasn't had any problem with it in 3 years. He didn't know the break away though. You better keep me posted Ray! O and I haven't checked the axle size.... I figured the day I got a wagon I would worry about it. I guess my 59 could use a lsd :) Quote Link to comment
fiveoneohray Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I wouldn't waste my time with the h190 then.The rx7 diff is very strong, known to be capable of holding around 500hp. easy swap as long as you can source one out and have it narrowed. tons of lsd pumpkins available in yards, any rear disc braked rx7 81-85 has an lsd....the 84-85 gsl-se has the correct 4x114.3 bolt pattern and the larger axles. all others have smaller axles but all you need to do is swap out the side gears. autos were 3.9:1 . 5-speeds 4.08:1. My 2 cents as far as differentials are concerned. I dont want Mazda stuff in my Datsun, thats just me though. Also I want to be able to replace an axle without having it to be modded (shortened). Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 The 320 h190 is 50" drum to drum :) 1.5" per side for add lip :) very interesting...Now if they were easier to find :P Quote Link to comment
fiveoneohray Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Ok so anyone reading this thread have a 521 complete axle for sale? Quote Link to comment
71-521 Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I have a pair..pm me... Quote Link to comment
Fineline Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Sorry for the late reply. I have been using th epower brute in my truck for a couple of years now and love it. YOu guys hit on the major points and are correct. The only new info I can add is the 620 and 720 diffs used a 10mm ring gear bolt. The carriers are made for the later d-21 hardbody h-190 which uses a 12mm ring gear bolt. No big deal. My first diff was a 720 so I made some small 1mm spacers to take up the slack. I have since converted to a d-21 for better gear ratio. When using a d-21 diff you have to swap the input flance with one out of a non-aluminum h-190 housing. 620 or 720, dosent matter. The seals are different between the aluminum and iron housings. Good luck. Were in the middle of doing this for both Clayton (69fjwagon) and Joma's (makibaka) trucks. Heres the write up I did. http://www.nwde.org/extras/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3243&KW=lsd Quote Link to comment
fiveoneohray Posted November 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 I think I will start off with a pair of axles first so I can measure everything. Good info Fineline. I would have been pretty surprised finding the ring gear holes being 12mm Quote Link to comment
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