Turbo or Not Turbo..? THAT is the question...

[MicroMachinery]

I've been sourcing parts for my KA24DE rebuild for some time now... I think the best route for me to go is going to be with Taiho mains and rods, along with NPR rings. According to my research, they're both fairly inexpensive OEM replacements. For my gasket kit, I'll simply go with Felpro.

 

While I'm looking for parts, I can't stop thinking about a turbo.. it haunts me. And while I'm going to all this trouble to source the right parts for my engine, my mind wanders to thoughts of impellers and blow-off valves..

I went out to Techtonics(VW) the other day to talk to a guy about engine building, and he threw out the whole, "What's the HP going to be at the wheels..?" question. At first, the 155hp/145ft/lbs number rolled off my head.. then I got to thinking.. that's what the ENGINE is rated at the factory.. I never even stopped to think that as a generality, the engine drops off around 30 horses through the drivetrain.. That lands me around 125whp, and for all the searching and toiling I've been doing over the past few months, this hardly seems worth it. I was thinking about going turbo on my KA further down the road, but now I'm not so sure that I'll be satisfied with just building a stock N/A engine. Granted, I will have to wait a long time to get the money together, as if/when I do go turbo, I will be fortifying the bottom end.. I'm not about to do the "run it at 8psi with the stock components" dance. I'm just not sure if 120-ish hp is gonna quench my thirst..

 

PLEASE, somebody for the love of GOD talk me out of this! This project WAS on the downhill slope..

[b210in]

by all means turbo.

[Skib]

i <3 boost

[hughdogz]

Before you go off the "deep end" please read this book first: http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606

 

If you seriously plan on adding 100's of HP, a lower CR is in order. Good Luck! ..and may the turbo Godz be with you! :rolleyes:

[72 327]

BOOOOOOOOST is like real vtec yo!!!!!! but really I love TURBO's if I could afford to turbo every car I own I would.. <3 turbo

[MicroMachinery]

.. you guys are NOT doing a very good job of talking me out of this..:fu:

[Skib]

thats what were here for :cool:

[ichorid]

you should DOUBLE boost, Supercharge into a turbo. Just sayin best of both worlds. 8psi from both. go go go.

[TrevDaddy]

I've ran into the same problem... Am I really going through all the trouble just to have 140 at the best to the wheels? That's why I'm going to save my money and rebuild it with a forged piston/rod setup from AMS. That way if I want to go turbo down the road, I have the possibility to do so. It will take a looooooong time to get to that point, but it will be worth it.

[72 327]

.. you guys are NOT doing a very good job of talking me out of this..:fu:

 

If you want to be talked out of it you should have posted "tell me all the things wrong with turbos and what engines don't like boost". Then you could rebuild a engine you will never want to boost. But I love boost and would boost it anyway. Of course if I had the money. My Z has 2 turbos I love the sound and the smooth amount of 15 psi power. haha

[datzenmike]

RWDs are closer to 15% losses. You would have 130-ish RWHP. It's just numbers. That's still about 50 more horses than a 100 hp (85 at wheels) L20B... it's all relative. It will still go like a KA24DE.

 

What's wrong with 7 PSI? That should give about 200RWHP!!!!! That's some serious shit.

[fo0manchu]

Turbo!

[NorCalDime]

I've been sourcing parts for my KA24DE rebuild for some time now... I think the best route for me to go is going to be with Taiho mains and rods, along with NPR rings. According to my research, they're both fairly inexpensive OEM replacements. For my gasket kit, I'll simply go with Felpro.

 

While I'm looking for parts, I can't stop thinking about a turbo.. it haunts me. And while I'm going to all this trouble to source the right parts for my engine, my mind wanders to thoughts of impellers and blow-off valves..

I went out to Techtonics(VW) the other day to talk to a guy about engine building, and he threw out the whole, "What's the HP going to be at the wheels..?" question. At first, the 155hp/145ft/lbs number rolled off my head.. then I got to thinking.. that's what the ENGINE is rated at the factory.. I never even stopped to think that as a generality, the engine drops off around 30 horses through the drivetrain.. That lands me around 125whp, and for all the searching and toiling I've been doing over the past few months, this hardly seems worth it. I was thinking about going turbo on my KA further down the road, but now I'm not so sure that I'll be satisfied with just building a stock N/A engine. Granted, I will have to wait a long time to get the money together, as if/when I do go turbo, I will be fortifying the bottom end.. I'm not about to do the "run it at 8psi with the stock components" dance. I'm just not sure if 120-ish hp is gonna quench my thirst..

 

PLEASE, somebody for the love of GOD talk me out of this! This project WAS on the downhill slope..

 

I've ran into the same problem... Am I really going through all the trouble just to have 140 at the best to the wheels? That's why I'm going to save my money and rebuild it with a forged piston/rod setup from AMS. That way if I want to go turbo down the road, I have the possibility to do so. It will take a looooooong time to get to that point, but it will be worth it.

 

RWDs are closer to 15% losses. You would have 130-ish RWHP. It's just numbers. That's still about 50 more horses than a 100 hp (85 at wheels) L20B... it's all relative. It will still go like a KA24DE.

 

What's wrong with 7 PSI? That should give about 200RWHP!!!!! That's some serious shit.

 

 

You guys are underestimating the ka alot! They make good power in stock form... Especially with new exhaust/header. Intake, and s13 cam swap

 

http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=179857

Rebuilt S14 KA24DE

eBay intake

Greddy 80mm downpipe

Buddyclub Spec 2 80mm exhaust

That's it...

155.0 WHP

155.9 WTQ

 

 

 

 

 

little more stuff

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/datsundyno.htm

KA24DE (DOHC)

Jim Wolf Technology ECU,

S & S Headers,

Greddy Cat Back Exhaust,

Ram Air Intake,

Unorthodox Racing Pulley,

104 octane

169hp @ 5600rpm

170ft/lbs @ 4400rpm

 

These numbers are fairly common. Get the KA in there, Get some 4.11 gears , a nice header and exhaust, and enjoy the great power it makes.

[MicroMachinery]

Those are some pretty fun numbers.

 

If I'm gonna go to all the hassle of building my KA for a turbo, wouldn't I almost be better off doing an SR swap?

I hate to think so.. I don't really want to go to the dark side..

[72 327]

You guys are underestimating the ka alot! They make good power in stock form... Especially with new exhaust/header. Intake, and s13 cam swap

 

http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=179857

Rebuilt S14 KA24DE

eBay intake

Greddy 80mm downpipe

Buddyclub Spec 2 80mm exhaust

That's it...

155.0 WHP

155.9 WTQ

 

 

 

 

 

little more stuff

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/datsundyno.htm

KA24DE (DOHC)

Jim Wolf Technology ECU,

S & S Headers,

Greddy Cat Back Exhaust,

Ram Air Intake,

Unorthodox Racing Pulley,

104 octane

169hp @ 5600rpm

170ft/lbs @ 4400rpm

 

These numbers are fairly common. Get the KA in there, Get some 4.11 gears , a nice header and exhaust, and enjoy the great power it makes.

 

and then TURBO.... Lmao oh and think all this and you could still be 150hp less than my truck. haha now that's funny, but I would take a turbo'd KA or SR over my 9 mpg motor.

Edited November 26, 2009 by 72 327

[yellowdatsun]

Have you already had the KA running in the car? If not I think you'd be surprised with it stock. It was designed to push a truck that's almost 1000lbs heavier than your 510.

 

So I'd run it as is, and do the research as you go in the future, instead of jumping into it all right now.

 

BTW, why are you rebuilding the engine?

[MicroMachinery]

BTW, why are you rebuilding the engine?

 

I'm rebuilding the engine because I got it for $200 and the kid I got it from already had the head taken off. I figured I might as well look at the internals, since it's out of the car and half-way apart anyhow. Replacing the bearings and rings are cheap insurance, in my opinion.. but that's just how I roll. Like my dad always told me, "If you have time to do it twice, you have time to do it right the first time.."

[Enjride]

Turbo:D

[yellowdatsun]

I see a lot of people rebuilding engines just for "good measure", and not necessarily because it needs to be rebuilt. Japanese engines are good for *at-least* 250,000 miles before you need to start thinking about rebuilding the bottom end. My Frontier has 170k on it, and the VG30 in my 510 has probably 225k on it, neither are even close to needing a rebuild.

 

So if your engine only needs a headgasket, there's really no reason to do anything else. Just throw on a headgasket, a few new seals, throw it in the car and drive it 100,000 miles. By the time the engine actually does need a rebuild you probably won't even have the car anymore.

 

Honestly, by digging into the bottom end you could do more damage than you started with. Factory builds last far longer than any rebuild will.

[72240z]

I see a lot of people rebuilding engines just for "good measure", and not necessarily because it needs to be rebuilt. Japanese engines are good for *at-least* 250,000 miles before you need to start thinking about rebuilding the bottom end. My Frontier has 170k on it, and the VG30 in my 510 has probably 225k on it, neither are even close to needing a rebuild.

 

So if your engine only needs a headgasket, there's really no reason to do anything else. Just throw on a headgasket, a few new seals, throw it in the car and drive it 100,000 miles. By the time the engine actually does need a rebuild you probably won't even have the car anymore.

 

Honestly, by digging into the bottom end you could do more damage than you started with. Factory builds last far longer than any rebuild will.

 

I agree with everything said there.

 

Usually I'm more concerned with seals, front and rear mains, oil pan, timing cover etc.... The problematic ones that will weap constantly and piss you off lol.

[MicroMachinery]

I guess that if it was a bad move, then.. my bad, but this kid told me about what he was doing with this motor, and it threw up red flags. I think he put some boost on it or something, because he was talking about the rings being bad in one cylinder. Either way, the bottom end would have to be gotten into. Now, as soon as I got into the bottom end, it was made pretty apparent to me that the bearings are in need of replacement. My nail catches on the scuffs... crank is fine, however. Thank GOD.

Under normal driving circumstances, I wouldn't have touched it. L-series are another story, because they're all so old. But I think you're absolutely right; under normal driving conditions, I wouldn't have suspected a bottom end rebuild was in order.. but given the info I was, I thought it prudent. I actually took the bottom end apart only to inspect the bearings, HOPING that all I would need was a headgasket.. not the case.:rolleyes:

[Drahzzel]

From all I've heard, read, and been taught, there shouldn't be much you would need to do from a stock KA24DE to turbo charge it as they already have forged pistons and oil squirters with low enough compression to get some good power out of it. I've always advocated putting a turbo on one of these over an SR20 swap just because you'd be into the swap for more money with the possibility of less power than a KA24DET, but that's just my opinion. ;)

[72240z]

I like the KA-T option too, 110%, but saying it doesn't need much maybe misleading. There are different comps for different year ranges. -93 was 9:1 and 94+ was 9.5:1. 9:1 I would just use a thicker head gasket but 9.5:1, IDK for any real boost I think someone should shave or spring for pistons.

 

Ya you could just slap a turbo on as is. You could slap a turbo on anything but how long it lasts and how much boost you can throw at it are very comp related. I personally would rather get the motor at a proper comp range so I could safely and reliably boost over 7lb and a measly(for boost) 200ish hp.

There is always someone that will argue their friend or w/e had a 10:1 and has been running 14lb for years blah blah but I have seen soooooo many n/a to turbo motors blown I don't even listen anymore lol.

[pl521sss]

If you want more power than KA

Stuff it with VQ35

[510six]

Would it be possible to have a dish machined in the KA DE pistons to reduce the compression, depending on the material thickness in the stock casting.

If the compression could be reduced to 8.5-1 or so it would be ideal for forced induction. With 7-10psi and a smallish/medium sized turbo an IC isn`t a must as water-methanol injection will work just fine to reduce intake air temps.

 

The real trick is to provide the correct A/F ratio under boost there are several ways of doing this FMU, secondary injector kit, standalone EFI or remapping the stock ECU to add fuel under boost.

 

http://www.cartech.net/fmu2020instruc.htm

 

http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html

 

http://www.megamanual.com/index.html

 

http://www.nistune.com/