KA head, Napz Z head for Z L6

[72240z]

100 more? You know me THAT well huh? Didn't say it was being started next week, or even this year.

I wouldn't hold your breath, but it WILL be done.

Maybe because it's a huge undertaking, LOTS of fabbing, and people don't want to invest time and money into R+D for a head that can't even be used for vintage racing?

 

People LOVE to whip out a catalog and a credit card, THAT'S why.

Whip out to buy what exactly? All the dohc that you cant order? How about the fact ITS NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE. For all the time and money there a host of other motors to be used, which is what everyone does. They aren't even worth selling because of all the trouble, which has been discussed before. Ya the like 1% of datsun owners who vintage race are whats holding back production, good one. W/e though it doesn't even matter....

And as I mentioned(feels like 10x now),

the de is over complicated(MUCH more trouble, a LOT more) for the very slight gains over an existing single cam head.

The single cam KA head will flat smoke a P90(3 valves, cross flow, ect).

End of story.

Ya you mentioned it but like most thing you say you can't back it up. How is it over complicated exactly? How is is so much more trouble? Is it because it's already been done and documented so one would have footprints to follow? Or is it that you can use stock nissan cams? hmm oh it's the timing right? Funny though how the de and e heads would be the same shit, a single timing gear to work off of.

 

Here are some more FACTS...

ka24de intake max flow at max lift = 220cfm

ka24de exhaust max flow at max lift = 170cfm

source = rhombus-tuning.com

 

ka24e intake max flow at max lift = 208.3cfm

ka24e exhaust max flow at max lift = 144.3cfm

source = home.att.net/~MabuhayCarlos/

 

Ported p90 intake max flow at max lift = 205cfm

Ported p90 exhaust max flow at max lift = 142cfm

source = forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=98351

 

So with that I ask where is the minor gain to be had? the de or the e? hmmm

Check numbers next time before you make ridiculous claims like the ka24e will "smoke" a p90. Fact is it's barely better and all that time work and money for barely better is FUCKING DUMB. Get over it......

 

Ever wonder if I was maybe asking input for the community's sake, not my own?

Or actually HOPING someone might mention something I hadn't thought of?

 

It has been discussed for pages now "for the good of the community" and MUCH was mentioned you didn't think of too. The result is in, has been in. You just don't want to accept it.

Edited February 23, 2009 by 72240z

[agentalpha]

Thanks for the Numbers, but that P90 flow # isn't stock.

And the single cam STOCK STILL outflows it.

Thanks for re-iterating my instincts, and confirming what I thought.

MAN, I'm good. Thanks for the proof.

 

And I bet a single cam ported properly would be even bigger,

streetable gains than that hogged out(and vintage head ruined for turbo apps) P90.

Sound like "smoked" to me, TY.

 

Again, you sound like you need to prove something.

And funny about how you mention "don't want to accept it".

Who's in, result what? What committee?

 

Sound like an internet info junkie, Boss.

And I'm not trying idiotically hard to prove you wrong(unlike someone else).

I'll just let YOU do it for me, TY.

 

And for 30CFM, I'll take the simplicity of the single cam design going on a single cam motor.

Good porting will cure most of that anyways.

And, I count at least 30 less parts, and a lot less custom work.

Edited February 23, 2009 by agentalpha

[72240z]

Thanks for the Numbers, but that P90 flow # isn't stock.

And the single cam STOCK STILL outflows it.

Thanks for re-iterating my instincts, and confirming what I thought.

And I bet a single cam ported properly would be even bigger, streetable gains than that hogged out P90.

No the p90 isn't stock that's why it says ported next to it. No one EVER said the p90 would flow more. What was said and proved is that the p90 can flow just as well. Yes a ported ka24e head will flow more. So your going to hack up 2 heads into pieces, pay a machine shop to fab a cam for you (at the least, in actuality you will be paying them for all the machine work as well), custom timing set up, machine the timing cover, etc.. so that you can flow the same amount of air as a ported bolt on p90 head? Then HAVE to port it to flow better? In what dimension does that make sense? It is not a "hogged" out port job either it is just a correct one, and guess what, the person who ported and flowed it is the same person who built the dohc head you are dreaming of copying. You're just digging the hole of foolishness deeper and deeper.......

Again, you sound like you need to prove something.

And funny about how you mention "don't want to accept it".

Who's in, result what? What committee?

I actually don't need to prove anything, I already have.

Sound like an internet info junkie, Boss.

Sound like internet info junkie? I like to think I don't sound like anything in text for one, two in the real world adults back up claims, opinions and stances with facts. Not shit talking, not guesses etc.. just facts. People who do not are called bullshit.

And for 30CFM, I'll take the simplicity of the single cam design going on a single cam motor.

 

Let me get this strait. So for the 2cfm you cut up 2 heads and all the aforementioned work PLUS things not mentioned thus far like a completely custom intake set up from maf to manifold, exhaust as well, then have to port it anyway for a real gain? But for the 30cfm BEFORE an optional porting you'll say fuck it for no reason? lol wow, just wow, that's great logic. I say no reason because you still have not proven in any way shape or form how the sohc would be any easier then the dohc, where as I have actually proven it would be harder with MORE custom work.

Edited February 23, 2009 by 72240z

[agentalpha]

Dude, this pissing match is boring.

You want to restate facts, and ignore others as it suits you,

And give NO consideration to things I repeat several times for the Tax break boy.

I'm done with this conversation, Sir.

At least with you.

 

Seriously. Go find a life somewhere.

I'll do as I wish.

You can start a P90 fan club if ya want.

You obviously have ONE way, YOUR way of looking at things.

 

As far as me, FUCK the P90.

I'm NOT ruining a vintage turbo head, for the FOURTH fucking time.

Is that any clearer?

 

If this will shut you up,

YOU KNOW IT ALL, and I AM STUPID.

I "am" "bullshit".

You have PROVEN how smart and GREAT you are!

The Datsun/Nissan head guru, wisest of them all.

How dare I experiment an alternative to ruining a vintage head without getting YOUR approval!!!

You sure have showed me, and taught me a lesson, but good!!

Put a real whuppin on me!

What a HERO!!

 

Is that what you needed to get past that hurt in your life?

 

Edited February 23, 2009 by agentalpha

[72240z]

Hey guys.

 

I am looking for a much better breathing alternative

 

Oh, yes. This would be geared towards a N/A application.

 

Thought? Opinions? Ideas?

 

Be careful what you ask for in the future. What you should say is agree with me and don't challenge anything I claim because when you prove me wrong I'm going to whine and personally attack you.

 

Was no pissing match for me. You posted things and "for the good of the community" I actually looked up facts to set the record strait. You can't seem to rebut or handle that at all. I never said you were dumb and I was smart, I never said you needed my approval or any of the other childish shit you just posted. The point was facts to back an opinion on an idea, facts that leave the idea making no sense. I didn't make that so, I just brought it to light.

 

You have some nerve telling me to get a life. You personally attack me and down right insult whole races of people in some of your other posts. Why don't you save your shit talking and propaganda, no one wants to read it.

 

Good luck with w/e you decide to do, or say you will do I should say. Your going to need it.

 

Edit due to edit -

As far as me, FUCK THE P90[/size]. I'm NOT ruining a vintage turbo head, for the FOURTH fucking time.

Is that any clearer?

So what you want is to run a vintage block for no reason and cut up a sub par head instead, I get it now. Very good idea. Edited February 23, 2009 by 72240z

[agentalpha]

THANK you.

Funny you mention that, as you ignored it the whole time.

Maybe I did. Sorry.

Got tired of talking to a wall.

Oh yeah, showed me again, but good.

MOST can't handle the hard truths, are have the backbone to take any action.

That's why this country is so fucked.

But it's all propaganda.

I don't like ARROGANT LAWBREAKERS taking from MY family...AND?

 

RUIN a block? UHHHH....

 

Goodbye.

Edited February 23, 2009 by agentalpha

[datzenmike]

I don't know the P-90 head at all but believe the KA is at least as good when stock, probably better, certainly has potential to be way better. But for all the bother, why not a DE right? The Z head should be discussed but only to discount it.... if it flows less on a Z block it won't outflow a P-90. Biggest bang for the buck... I mean bother, would be a DE.

[hughdogz]

As far as me, FUCK the P90.

I'm NOT ruining a vintage turbo head, for the FOURTH fucking time.

Is that any clearer?

 

You'd better hurry up then, because in five years from now, you won't want to cut up a vintage KA head! :rolleyes:

Edited February 23, 2009 by hughdogz
change ten to Five...my bad

[72240z]

I don't understand where ruining a p90 comes in? I think MANY car owners would be upset to hear they ruined their heads when they ported them lol. The ka is only 5 years newer then that "vintage" p90 as well. I didn't realize 5 years made so much of a difference....

 

The car itself is older too, don't go "ruining" it by changing the original head/motor!!!! :lol:

Edited February 23, 2009 by 72240z

[agentalpha]

The single cam KA head has WAY more potential than a ruined P90.

My Port job won't ruin it.

Shaving 100 Thou off of the deck will,

for it's designed purpose, forcing it to be a N/A head.

 

KA heads are are way more common as well.

How many KA's in any yard?

How many P90's in the same?

 

Ok, dumb fuck, GET IT NOW?

 

And, you REALLY need to fucking pay attention, asshole.

I'm tired of repeating myself 'cause you pull shit I didn't say,

or that is nowhere near fact, outta your ass.

 

Getting REALLY fucking annoying.

You making huge effort to try and discredit me as your hobby really creeps me out. Find another hobby, or person to stalk.

 

Har har.

 

Fuck Off.

[72240z]

breath...... :lol:

[datzenmike]

0.100" or 1/10 of an inch off the deck? Not following this. The stock motor won't allow this, the motor with KA pistons and 133mm rods won't, KA pistons and LD28 crank (L3.1) definitely won't. I can see a thin trim to true it up but to raise compression, aren't the pistons going to be out of the block? Not to mention making the block deck kind of ... thin?

Edited February 24, 2009 by datzenmike

[Duke]

Agentalpha...you need to chill.

[philip1]

Old cars sure get people's dander up. I've owned and raced datsuns since 1990 and I don't know everything nor do I claim to. I do know people get upset when others have differing opinions. What I'm trying to say here is GEES it's just a car and this thread is strictly theory.

Edited February 24, 2009 by philip1

[datzenmike]

True that! But great discoveries are often proceeded by theory. Or someone bouncing ideas or even what if's.

[agentalpha]

Go back and read the whole thread.

DON'T tell me to chill when some fuckwad

Ruined a very valid thread being an

I think I know it all

I'll keep spouting off irrelevant nonsense to hear myself talk

and to piss you off

fucking Asshole.

The WHOLE God damn thread he did this shit.

 

You win, Dickhead.

You found my limit of patience.

YAY YOU! What a HERO.

You are AWESOME!~

CONFUCKINGRATS.

 

Do us all a favor, and don't say anything in my posts

if you aren't going to USE your (if any) Brain,

Common sense,

(Here's the BIG one)READING COMPREHENSION,

or pay attention to what's been said, or to what you type.

 

Go over to HybridZ. They LOVE that BS.

 

I was speaking of the amount that needs to be shaved.

I THOUGHT it was .100, but don't really care what the actual amount is,

to use a P90 in a N/A application.

No more turbo use for every single one that's sliced like that.

 

Let others ruin parts. Not me.

Edited February 24, 2009 by agentalpha

[72240z]

I don't call posting facts on a given topic ruining the thread, I call it contributing. Just because you don't agree or want to accept said facts you have to go ape shit? Getting all crazy like this, ranting and letting uncalled for personal attacks fly? Grow up and calm down........

 

I really do hope everyone reads at least this page of the thread so they can see how over the top your posts are in response to valid points.

Edited February 24, 2009 by 72240z

[Phlebmaster]

This is very entertaining....:thumbsup:

[datzenmike]

The P-90 is a turbo head but like the P79 and P90a heads they all have the same volume so why cut it down for normally aspirated use??? A P-90 head on a flat top piston has an 8.5 compression.

Edited February 24, 2009 by datzenmike

[Lozer]

Now i want this to be a clean and fair fight. No hitting blow the belt and no eye gouging!!!!

 

 

DING

 

 

:lol:

[philip1]

if you are after compression look for an e31 head on E-bay. I will say again if you are after a cross flow high performance I6 look at the RB series engine. they didn't put them in the Skyline because they were cute.I know that the mounts are not the same as an L but fabricating mounts will be way easier than building 1 head out of 2-3 probably less expensive too.

Edited February 24, 2009 by philip1

[hughdogz]

 

Another option would be to use a (more common) closed-chamber P79 head (as Jedi Master Mike mentioned).

 

From what I've read, the major flow bottleneck on L-series heads is the shape of the intake runner, since it forms nearly a 90 degree angle at the runner to bowl transition.

 

I know this is a lot of work, but Electromotive was able to raise the runner angle, so that it would be more of a "straight-shot" into the combustion chamber. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned by Tony D on hybridz...:mellow:

[datzenmike]

The P-79 had the less desirable exhaust port shape and steel liners like the W=58 truck smog heads. I think is a generally accepted fact that the STOCK P-90 head was the best STOCK flowing head. agentalpha seems to think they need milling down for use on a normally aspirated motor but I don't see why.

[Duke]

Let others ruin parts. Not me.

 

Aren't you the one proposing cutting up 3 good heads to make 1 head that might work in theory? That isn't ruining parts?:confused:

[datzenmike]

Jeff (L motor anti-Christ) would chop up three L20B heads :D