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Engine juddery, loss of horsepower.


None_zero

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Has to be TDC precicely.

Stand over the left fender with radiator to the left.

 

8Gj0vYy.jpg

 

Looks to be at least one tooth out. But as long as you can set the correct timing doesn't matter much. This above puts the distributor in the middle with lots of adjustment room.

 

 

We covered this in February. Disconnect the vacuum advance if it's connected and check timing. Should be 50. If not enough room to adjust set the spindle again so it's like the picture above. IDLE must be around 700 or mechanical advance will affect the timing.

 

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1 minute ago, None_zero said:

By set the spindle you mean remove and redo or with it open like I have it can I stick a pair of needle nose down in there and just rotate it?

Cause I don't have gaskets to but back on the oil pump if I remove it 😞

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I guess for now I just need to put this back together because it sounds like what you're telling me means there's nothing I can do with this that's going to fix any issue I currently have which is mainly just it idles badly and seems not to be timed well (likely due to setting it with rpms too high. So what i need to do is do all the checks for the voltage and such to the tach and if they all check out replace the tach and reset with correct rpms. Unless it won't idle at the correct rpm and then the issue is likely in the carburetor or some vac leak I'm not finding 

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55 minutes ago, None_zero said:

By set the spindle you mean remove and redo or with it open like I have it can I stick a pair of needle nose down in there and just rotate it?

 

Oil pump has to come out as the spindle only moves downward to disengage from the worm gear on the crank shaft. You can re-use the pump gasket if not torn.

 

53 minutes ago, None_zero said:

Also I noticed when rotating the crank pully that the timing chain lags just slightly when I first move it does this mean it needs to be tensioned ?

 

Engine turns clockwise so it pulls down tightly on the timing chain on the left side tensioning it when running. Any and all slack is naturally gathered on the right side where the chain tensioner is. When you turn the engine backwards you in effect move any slack to the right side. So yes the crank will move back and forth slightly without moving the cam sprocket. This is normal but never happens when running.

 

JXjXFLb.jpg

 

Imagine the crank shaft turning clockwise and pulling down on the timing chain against the resistance of the valve springs against the cam. This is why the left side is straight

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52 minutes ago, None_zero said:

I guess for now I just need to put this back together because it sounds like what you're telling me means there's nothing I can do with this that's going to fix any issue I currently have which is mainly just it idles badly and seems not to be timed well (likely due to setting it with rpms too high. So what i need to do is do all the checks for the voltage and such to the tach and if they all check out replace the tach and reset with correct rpms. Unless it won't idle at the correct rpm and then the issue is likely in the carburetor or some vac leak I'm not finding 

 

I would think so. At idle (750-800) the timing can be set. As the engine revs up the distributor ads centrifugal advance. Starting at just over 1,000 RPM it adds about 19 degrees of advance by 2,100

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Ok then let me see if I understand. When the engine rpms are at 1k the centrifugal advance is adding 19° of advance and so my actual timing if I set it to 5°  advance.... when it gets below 1k and the mechanical advance drops off now I'm 14° retarded and it won't idle but because of the spindle being installed incorrectly I can't advance it any more. So in essence yes I do have to redo the spindle to have enough adjustment to set the timing right 

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Which  really sucks 

22 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Oil pump has to come out as the spindle only moves downward to disengage from the worm gear on the crank shaft. You can re-use the pump gasket if not torn.

 

 

Engine turns clockwise so it pulls down tightly on the timing chain on the left side tensioning it when running. Any and all slack is naturally gathered on the right side where the chain tensioner is. When you turn the engine backwards you in effect move any slack to the right side. So yes the crank will move back and forth slightly without moving the cam sprocket. This is normal but never happens when running.

 

JXjXFLb.jpg

 

Imagine the crank shaft turning clockwise and pulling down on the timing chain against the resistance of the valve springs against the cam. This is why the left side is straight

Ok yeah that makes sense I work on presses at work which are hydraulically driven that have chains and its the same. Just last week i was replacing gerotors and their associated gear reducers and its always important to reinstall the chain with the tension on the same side it was on (because it moves back and forth with the print and flood strokes) so ok that makes sense thanks 

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Ok i think I've got the spindle set right now MkQc8wF.jpgand the 1 cylinder is at tdc97LHHBl.jpgon the compression stroke wsbVjxh.jpgso now when i reinstall the distributor I want the screw to be at the front or what position should it be in to be right with everything else? The fsm isn't super clear in this as it just says mark it and put it back where it was but this assumes it was in the right position to start with. Maybe I am a dummy again but doesn't it have a specific place it should be to be within the range it needs to be so I can time it out ?

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That looks better.

 

This needs more frequent oil and changes. I recommend Rotella T4 it's high in ZDDP and diesel oils are much more detergent. The detergent package of T4 should clean those internal engine surfaces.

wsbVjxh.jpg

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Ok I have been planning to get that done now that I'm getting less blow by and the plugs aren't fouling and blackening the oil in a couple days. I've changed it since I got that to stop but I just did a quick dump and fill before work one day didn't change the filter so when I get it put back together I'll go get the stuff and do it but you didn't answer my question about the distributor position 

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Well I've clearly done something wrong. Started it up and it seemed fine let it warm up a bit and started adjusting it for fuel mix got a decent spot near where it was before and then checked the timing. No Mark showing so I loosen the dist and rotate and.... nothing. No change I am confused so I rotate farther and try both directions. Engine starts to sound sick So realize I've biffed it and cut it off. What did I do? I moved the distributor to the wrong location obviously right?

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I need to know what position the distributor itself is supposed to go. I went ahead because i thought well hell it's obvious it only goes one way. But something definitely aint right 

Edited by None_zero
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2 hours ago, None_zero said:

This is about the oil pump spindle not the distributor 

 

Yes, that's what I was commenting on. If the spindle is correct, and as the distributor can only go in in one position dictated by the spindle position, it follows that the distributor is also correct.

 

34 minutes ago, None_zero said:

Any ideas what would cause the distributor to not advance the timing when its position within its adjustment range is changed 

 

The trigger is not on #1 plug wire and is firing at 180 degrees and not on the timing scale.

 

Or should I ask where is it firing? on the timing scale.

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