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Pedro

411 front disc brake conversion

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I used these studs. 

 

Moser Engineering 7/16-20 1.750" 0.480 Knurl Steel Wheel Stud 10 pc P/N 8259
 
Ordered them from amazon :)

 

IMG_9023_zpsl6ruoaki.jpg

 

 

 

Wow thanks man! So you fitted yours and all good?

 

Are they stock length or longer? I'm googling to see if I can find an equivalent in Australia, otherwise I'll see if Amazon ships to AU (without wanting my first born child).

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No problem, fit exactly as stock. They are longer than stock though to make up for the rotor thickness, as well as a bit more thread engagement for the wheels I am running. 

 

Edit to add a pic of them installed.

 

IMG_9092_zpsgtoqgejs.jpg

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Dug out all the old grease from the hubs on the weekend and cleaned all the bearings.

 

Did a rush job of painting the hubs

 

F5A513F5-2B18-4F07-8A64-81F8F4FB57D5_zps

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D5993C32-302A-4489-90EF-5E59A0853947_zps

 

Banged a stud back in and test fitted a rim with the disc on, gets full thread on the nut so all good for studs if the calipers fit (which they probably won't)

 

D9FD1617-0051-4182-9128-6E8191004DE4_zps

F7AAFB72-804A-4C66-BB4B-0D081C8CF0F0_zps

92D59626-1816-4C37-8500-3B05719E8704_zps

 

Next stop is repacking bearings, getting some proper caliper bolts that are the right length, then trial fit it all on the car.

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Packed some some bearings and trialed a mock up. Had a adjust some of the holes with a file for fitment.

 

59321F46-2EB4-4293-8BA3-A5024B238EDB_zps

E5BA3EDE-59B5-47B3-84E9-A528FED0E131_zps

 

Borrowed a bearing packer (reused bearing seal because ratsun)

 

7F83F281-8EB4-44E9-B622-1A58D8EFB434_zps

F19F4980-DEDC-4C81-BC76-AF2947C33AF6_zps

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37D9BB40-C396-4B00-A113-A3DD357BE146_zps

 

New rotor installed (at this point I thought I was on a roll) since the rotor didn't touch the suspension.

F7CD5AB4-4597-4C79-BCF3-397DC0CEE54A_zps

 

Went to bolt on caliper and this is where it all went wrong...

 

Wasn't enough room to put the caliper mounting frame behind the rotor....

 

DA455365-6696-41FD-A9ED-35F6617EB97B_zps

 

At this point I'm scratching my head and second guessing my measurements or alignment etc. So I packed it up for the night and gave myself time to think.

 

Going over it the next day, I thought it could only be 2 things;

 

- Sample rotor was in fact not off an R31 skyline.

- I hadn't bolted the hub on properly OR that 410 & 411 hubs were different.

 

Turns out the sample rotor I had used for fitment was off a R30 skyline that I had wrecked years ago, and not a R31 as suspected. Therefore there is about 10-12mm different in hat size;

 

9B2F6083-4ACA-43C5-8DBC-A732CD78D355_zps

 

Soooo....

 

Now I'm left with either modifying the caliper mount spacer to suit the new hat size of the R31 rotor, or buy new R30 rotors. The difference is that R30 are less common and likely to not be made in the future IMO, they also may not give good caliper clearance. R30 rotors are also 3 times the price of an R31 rotor.

 

Another positive of the R30 rotor is suspension clearance may be better due to a shorter hat size.

 

The next step will be to put the R30 rotor on and assemble it and check full suspension bump for clearances, and then do the same with the R31 rotor. My preference is the R31 rotor but it will all be depend on what is the best option overall.

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Two steps forward :)

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Two steps forward :)

 

Something like that!

 

A quick 2nd gear power skid in my fj20 510 renewed the enthusiasm :)

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Actually the 510 calipers are identical to the SSS calipers except they have metric threads so you you have to fab up a brake line with SaE on the car side and metric on the callipervside. The backing plates are slightly different.

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I did a mock up with the current disc rotor (that I used for mocking up) just to check things out to see if I wanted to consider buying those rotors to save time.

 

1943A548-A6D6-481D-948D-5E8722BBCF40_zps

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7D5BBCF1-4AC3-4CD8-BBE4-50EF08E1AEF5_zps

 

Clearance wise everything looked ok-ish.

 

Unfortunately the 13 inch widened steelies i had on there didn't fit :( So I drove to my brothers to collect a pair of 13 inch alloys that have been known to work over particular brake conversions while allowing the fitment of a 13 inch hubcap, that was also a fail with these rotors, I'm still hopeful that may change once I use the rotors with the taller hat size.

 

Good to know a 16x7 watanabe fits though ;)

 

5BD755DD-1BD8-420F-9F45-BA78000070FE_zps

 

So takeaways from this last exercise.

 

- I may consider modifying the caliper brackets so I can mount the calipers on the back. This will assist with re-using the existing brake line mount for where the hard line meets the soft line.

- New rotors with the larger hat size will assist with running 13 inch wheels as the caliper was fouling right in the front corner of the 13 inch rims.

 

This weekend I'll get the caliper brackets ready to go fitment wise, then hand the whole setup over to the gentleman who machined the hubs for me so he can machine down the spacers for me.

 

Will update once that process is completed.

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Actually the 510 calipers are identical to the SSS calipers except they have metric threads so you you have to fab up a brake line with SaE on the car side and metric on the callipervside. The backing plates are slightly different.

 

You can get a simple adapter and run stock metric lines.

 

http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-50712-499-0041.aspx?origin=keyword

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Hmm, that's a pity about the calipers -  I too want to run stock hubcaps so need to be careful with the caliper selection when I get around to trying out some parts for fitment. Pondering Volvo calipers as a friend has these on a 67 Prince and they don't seem too bulky.

 

Keep at it - I'm sure it's all worth it in the end.  

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Damn!  Too bad you live so very far from me.  I have 4 Datsun 13x5 inch original wheels from either a 1500cc 310 roadster or the later 310 FWD sedan.  They do not have the "dog dish" clips so need full 13 inch wheel covers [which makes the roadster option more likely] .  They do clear the original RL411 front disc brakes  Shipping costs would likely exceed the value of your 411..

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It's all good boys! I'm still confident I can make it all work with 13 inch rims, just struggling for time at the moment, but will be back into it soon as this car seriously only needs a small amount of work to complete it.

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Got my spacers machined down and did a trial fit the weekend just past.

 

D8C5886A-670A-45D0-892F-7DF88304C247_zps

D1F26403-EF4D-4D5F-8806-DA4EF8DAC0DB_zps

 

Assembled and looking good for clearance of steering and suspension bits.

 

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18C50AE2-558A-4CD1-AF64-C3DABB86AA88_zps

 

My widened 13 inch steelies don't fit unfortunately, but I only did a basic check, there may be a way to do it with some minor filing of the caliper or the rim itself.

 

Either way, my plan with the 13 alloy sunraysia style 13x5.5 with hubcap seem to work

 

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2507DAD8-E730-4CDD-8225-43D165762527_zps

 

Also tried some 14 inch black Racing wheels & 13 inch volks, both seem to fit.

 

4937B027-68B7-4778-BA3F-F16B662534C9_zps

E7C1B03E-3F29-401D-B3CC-8EF96F203D1C_zps

 

Also tried to test if I could use the caliper brackets so I could mount the caliper in reverse but interfered with the steering, so will leave them on the front and adjust brake lines as required.

 

Next steps are sorting out a 3 way junction for front brake lines & a push rod for the master.

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Looking forward to the master cylinder solution. I have been eyeballing Geo Metro master cylinders, but haven't made the decision yet. 

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Will be using that dual master 13/16th from the first page, off a b310 in Australia I think, got the part code from datsun1200.com wiki

 

Just need to measure my push rod length and get a thread machined on a stainless rod I have. The pain is having to make new brake lines with a junction box for the extra line at the front, but once done it should be good.

 

I could also just run a single piston brake master, but figured if I have to run new lines anyway, I may as well go the extra step and put some safety in

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Been shopping around for a new 3 way brake junction as I'll need to split off the rear brakes from the front ones. Also need to find an adaptor that I can use to extend the brake line that runs from the back of the car to the front (would love to get away without replacing it).

 

What are you guys doing to cover against brake failure on one side of the front? On a 510 in Australia they have a junction box that has a piston that slides when you lose hydraulic pressure on one side of the car, any of you guys using one of these?

 

I'm considering not using one and just keeping it simple and incorporating a new junction like below which are cheap off ebay.

 

s-l1600_zpswfritvpr.jpg

 

I need help though, does anyone know the standard thread pitch and size for the original 410/411 tube nuts? I'll need to get a 2 way junction for back brakes extension to master cylinder so need to know this.

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So did some reading and appears the junction boxes like below are only there to pop up a warning light

 

safety_valve.jpg

 

So I won't bother installing one.

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Pedro

Whats the latest?

98% of the time tube nut threads are 3/8-24

 

Keep us updated

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Pedro

Whats the latest?

98% of the time tube nut threads are 3/8-24

 

Keep us updated

 

Hi There,

 

So latest is I'm almost finished.

 

- New studs are in

- Wheel bearings are packed

- Caliper mounting spacers have been milled down to suit the new rotor.

- All assembled and on the car.

 

The only part left was sorting out brake hoses, and it looks like I have found a solution using a standard brake component from another car. I was at my brothers place and noticed he had a set of front VL Holden Commodore front calipers with brake lines still attached, the banjo bolt and brain line housing looked very similar to the one of my VS commodore rear calipers which I'm using the on the front.

I talked him into giving me the calipers, and last night I went about testing them out and bang, they look like they are the perfect length to suit my front disc setup AND suit the caliper mount as well. Unfortunately they have some surface rust on the brake line part, so I'll need to see if I can still use them, otherwise I'll buy new ones.

 

I also drilled out the spot welds for the hard line mount on the inner guard so I can reposition it on the front side of the suspension to suit the caliper on front, so will tack weld that into place tonight once i know it's final position, then just need to run the last hard lines.

 

I'm also going to rip out the stock metal rod accelerator cable setup to give me more room around the brake master, and will use a pedal and cable from a S14 silvia in place. I'll try and find a place to host some pics, as photobucket are now douches.

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Long time no update. This brake conversion is complete, the whole system is bled up and has a firm pedal.

 

No street test yet, as just a couple more things to complete before the car is ready for a road test.

 

Can't recall if I put it in the thread, but ended up making a push rod for the brakes out of an old paint roller. Sounds dodgy but if photobucket would let me post the pictures it was actually very easy and a solid solution.

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