I need help badly. Datsun 510 will not stay idling or pull itself.

[IAmTheWalrus]

I apologize if this is not in the right section I am new to ratsun.net so forgive me. I like an idiot traded a perfectly running car for this 1971 Datsun 510 four door. I believe its the original l16 under the hood. I went about 90 miles out from where I live to trade. I did fine for about 60 miles and it started struggling and just choked out. Had to pay to get it hauled home. Anyway I get it home and assume its the fuel tank which it turns out is rusty as can be. So I replace the fuel filter, still no avail. I then hook it up to a bottle full of gas to feed it. It idles for a good one to two minutes starts running ragged and dies. When its idling if I put it in gear it'll maybe jump a few feet and it dies. I then proceed to replace the plugs, then mechanical fuel pump. Idles better but still the same. The old plugs were very carbon fouled. I assume the new plugs are now too. The car has a brand new Weber. We took it apart and cleaned it still no luck. I'm none to familiar with points myself so could it be them? Carb adjustments? This car cost me a job opprotunity and now I'm having to sell my super beetle project to maybe fix it. Anyone have any ideas. Thank you much.

[Dolomite]

Check compression & ignition components/timing, my guess is fuel related. Sludge or rust may be blocking a jet or the tuning could be way off. Don't just start throwing parts at it, verify each step. These are really simple reliable engines. Good luck.

[LenRobertson]

The fact that it ran well for most of the trip home is encouraging. My first guess is rust/gunk blocking or partially blocking the fuel line back to the gas tank. I believe there is a drain plug on the bottom of the tank on a 510, although it may not be easy to find. Look under the car ahead of the spare tire well and see if there is a rubber plug. Remove that to access the tank drain plug. Or try siphoning out the gas in the tank and see how bad it looks. The problem with siphoning is it will leave some crap in the bottom of the tank. Worst case you will have to pull the tank out to clean it, but maybe not.

 

On my 510  I had to remove the rubber lines from the hard line at both tank and fuel pump, then spray carb cleaner into the hard line and blow out with compressed air. I repeated this several times to dissolve gunk in the line.

 

Go to YouTube and find a vid on inspecting and replacing points. Yours may be fine, but it would eliminate a possible problem if you know you have new points in there. You will need to borrow or rent a dwell meter and timing light to do this correctly.

 

When the engine warms up, the choke plate in the primary barrel of the carb should be fully open. If something is screwy with the choke and it stays closed it will run really badly. Spray carb  cleaner around the choke shaft and linkage if it seems stuck closed. If it is an electric choke it should close with the engine cold, then gradually open up fully as the engine warms up.

 

It is possible for brand new plugs to get fouled with raw fuel if too much gets in the cylinders. I'm not saying this has happened, but it can. If the plugs look really black and sooty you can burn them off with a propane torch, then reinstall. Lightly oil the threads on the plugs so they don't seize in the aluminum head.

 

And congrats on being a new Datsun owner. Part of the initiation process is a bunch of screwing around getting it running right. Most Ratsun guys are at Canby this weekend, so you may get more ideas during the week as they make it back home and recover from all the fun.

 

Len

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

My first guess is rust/gunk blocking or partially blocking the fuel line back to the gas tank.

 

My first guess is rust/gunk blocking or partially blocking the fuel line back to the gas tank.

Mine too.

 

Try blowing compressed air back through the fuel line. Be careful as if it is blocked, it could create quite a mess, of the explosive variety. Start with low pressure, like 40 psi, and se what that does. If it is blocked and then becomes unblocked you will hear it. It makes an unmistakable sound.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Don't know why it quoted like that...

[IAmTheWalrus]

Thank you guys for the swift and informal response guys, its very discouraging at times messing with this 510 so far but its great to finally have a car on my dream car list. It has a manual choke, and it will usually only run with it wide open. As for the fuel tank it is quite bad, but for the time being I'm feeding it gas from a bottle. I do intend to get it cleaned as soon as possible. At this point I am thinking it may be timing or points but as I said this is my first car with points, or well first car with points ive had to tinker with. So its all new. Ive done alot of searching so far but Its really all so confusing. I wasn't sure if looking at videos on points could apply for my 510. I am a better learner visually so that would help. Ive searched for the conversion kit for electronic ignition but cant figure anything out, you guys know of any nite for the l16? will any other kit work? For a L18 or L20? Anyways I'm thinking I may tear down the carb and try cleaning the jets again. I'm just kind of at a stand still so any and all advice and info help so much. Thanks again guys!

[datsunaholic]

If it only runs with the choke wide open that would indicate it's too rich, so closing the choke (which should never need to be done on a warm engine) would make it super rich.  Otherwise, the engine SHOULD run with the choke wide open- that's normal, once it's warmed up.  You want it open.

 

Unless you're mixing open/closed.   Normally you close (pull the knob out) the choke to start a cold engine, then gradually open it (push the knob in) as it warms up.

 

If you're actually closing the choke to make it run, that explains the fouled plugs because it's too rich.

 

Likely gunk from the tank, which will now be all through the lines, in the pump, and in the carb, will plug up the jets, including the idle jets.  That makes it run lean if at all.  Gunk in the idle jets make it stall at idle, and what happens is people pull the choke knob which in addition to closing the choke also cracks open the throttle so now it might sort of idle, but on the main jets.

 

You're going to need to blow compressed air throgh the carb, and you'll need to take the idle jet caps off to clear those as well.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Pertronix Ignitor

part # 1741

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-1741

 

Summit Racing sells it for $82 and it is a 30 minute install. Check the curve in your distributor while you're in there and definitely read the instructions as per the ballast resistor requirements. Some systems require a ballast, others don't.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Weber DGV's are very simple to rebuild or clean.

 

Pull the jets out and make sure you mark their location.

Take out the emulsion tubes under the air jets using a long skinny pick.

Pull out the needle and seat, the pump nozzle and the idle jets on the sides of the carb.

Blow air or carb cleaner through all the holes and make sure it comes out the other side.

Clean the screen at the inlet and you should be good to go.

You may need to remove the accelerator pump body and clean inside there too, in which case, be careful not to tear the diaphragm. Inspect the diaphragm for tears while it's out.

 

If getting the jets back in is a bitch, use a pick to get them started and finish tightening them with a screwdriver.

[LenRobertson]

I looked at my '72 510 gas tank for a drain plug. There is one on the passenger side rear corner of the tank, with a large rubber plug through the trunk floor that needs to be removed to get to the plug. But before draining the tank, it is worth blowing back through the line going into the fuel filter. If you don't have compressed air, try blowing through it with your lungs which may or may not be enough to unplug a line if there is crap in it.

 

Another idea - get 4 feet or so of fuel hose and hook it to the output of the fuel pump and aim the hose into a deep can or bucket so you can watch the fuel output (the long hose is to keep raw gas from spraying near the engine). When cranking the engine you should see a good strong pulse of gas from the fuel pump.

 

Take out a spark plug and lay it on top of the valve cover with the plug wire hooked to it. The plug body must ground to the metal on the engine.  Crank the engine and this vid at about 4:20 shows what the spark should look like, strong and white-ish.

If it is feeble, yellow, or erratic, then it could be a problem with your points.

 

But I continue to think dirt in the gas or blocked fuel line. Make sure you have a good steady output from the fuel pump (and clean gas) before messing with the points.

 

Len

[IAmTheWalrus]

Today I adjusted the points to proper specs, learned a bit about them and got a really good idle for a short time, but again in gear it would die down. So I'm thinking at this point it is in fact the carburetor. So I plan to tear it down and clean the jets, etc. Ill keep you guys updated. Also thank you for the link to the petronix ignitor. I just could not find that! As for the choke situation, Its a bit confusing but I did have it open come to find out. Again I cant thank you guys enough. I'm very glad to have found ratsun.net. This is is definitely a crash course for me.

[docbainey]

Bowling Green - Northwest Ohio car, PICS!!!

[IAmTheWalrus]

[IAmTheWalrus]

[IAmTheWalrus]

[IAmTheWalrus]

[IAmTheWalrus]

Shes kind of a musty old girl, but I had to have it. I think it will be worth the time and effort. These things are like unicorns around here. I'm going to need a few parts maybe you guys can help me find. Front valance, windshield, grille, etc. I'm gonna patch all the rust up but in the end I still want it semi ratty. I also have an original 510 wagon roof rack i may trade for something?

[banzai510(hainz)]

hopefully you not working on this at a Apartment complex!!!!!!!!!!!

Have a garage to do this????????

 

This is a EZ fix.

 

You can tell by the fuel filter if its a bad tank if the new filter fills with rust.

To me if car runs on wide open throttle with the choke pulled then the main jet is plugged.

If dont idle the mixture screw is off or the idel jet pluugged.

 

Poins are EZ but you better learn how they work and buy only a stock coil and use the ballast reisitor.

 

 

if it drove the first 60miles or whatever it was dont be just throwing parts at it .

 

 

looks pretty much stock

 

 

ps turn the batter around so the positive is in the back so it dont hit the hood or when you brake the batter goes fwd and hits hood and shorts out

 

 

I see the ignition wire photo and looks stock so hopefull all that is OK you just have to adjust the points or get new ones.

Fulke pum can be cked by gas shooting out when you try to start.

 

 

olddatsuns.com the tech section

 

 

Pertronix only work on single point distributors 68-69 and soem other types but if dusal point it wont fit on the plate as the holes are spaced different.

 

 

I always adjust valves on a car when brought home or new to me just to rule things out

 

[IAmTheWalrus]

Yeah unfortunatley I am having to do alot of the work there at the complex, but sometime this week my grandfather and I are going to trailer it to his garage. The gas tank is horribly rusty as well but as soon as I get the cash to take it to the local radiator shop I'm going to, as of now its bypassed. Thanks for the info on the petronix, will I have to buy some sort of electronic distributor and new coil? Ill swap that battery around as well, thanks for the tip there. As soon as we get it in the garage ill keep my thread updated.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Cool car. I love patina.

 

Is it a single or dual point distributor right now? If it is dual and you still want to get the Pertronix, you can swap single points distributor plate insode that housing. A great source of used Datsun parts is Troy Ermish at 510 Parts Outlet in Tracy, CA. He'll have a single point distributor if you need it.

 

Also, that carb looks brand new so hopefully it only requires a light cleaning. Old carbs can get calcified and gummy which make them almost impossible to clean.

[IAmTheWalrus]

Thanks man, impretty fond of the Patina as well, I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the hood though, I need to match it up or do something to make it match the car a little more. As for the primer spots, I took any rust down to bare metal and covered it up. I think some od green over it for the time being will help restore a little more of the natural look. Not sure yet. I'm really banking that it is the carb at this point, or I hope it is at least. Thank you also for the info on the distributor, does Troy have a site or would I have to look up up the number?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

It's hard to mathc patina when doing any body repair. Maybe try fogging with spray paint from 10 or 12 inches away and then wet sand it to match...?

 

Troy does have a site. http://www.ermish-racing.com/He does pretty damn nice work as well. Over the years he has made a name for himself in the vintage racing world with some of the OG race cars of the 70's. I sold my 510 race car to him about 10 years ago and he turned it into a gorgeous B-Sedan vintage racer. He sold it for $70K when it was done.

 

 

 

[IAmTheWalrus]

Thanks for the link man! That car is a beauty! Looked good before too! It was the factory paint I wanna try and match, just over certain spots of primer, I couldn't let the rise just continue to get worse so I wanted to do a little bit of a preventitive measure. The primer just throws it off, but self etching primer may be what I need, its close to the same color. Unfortunatley I cant do a full resto, so I don't wanna half ass it so I guess ill find the parts i need as is and leave it as is. Patch the rust and let it be until I have more time and money for it. I do enjoy Patina!

[LenRobertson]

Yeah, 4-door with great patina! Love it! Of course my 4-door has 5 different colors, plus a little body filler showing through and rusty bare metal where the paint is completely gone, so you can figure how my taste runs. My body/paint guy and I have talked about trying to repaint the areas that don't match the original color of stock green showing through where the blue repaint is wearing away. I'll probably let him experiment and see if he can get the replacement door and fender looking a little more like the rest of the car.

 

On the first page of the How-To section http://community.ratsun.net/forum/25-how-to/are a couple of electronic ignition articles you might want to read. I run a matchbox dizzy in my 510 cause it was cheap and easy to find at Pull n Save Spokane. You may have trouble finding a matchbox dizzy in wrecking yards in your location. Sometimes they show up in the Classifieds here on Ratsun. I don't know anything about the aftermarket kits, but suspect they work fine.

 

When you get the carb/fuel sorted out, check the valve adjustment like hainz said. No way of knowing when it was done last. I also like to replace radiator and heater hoses with new ones when I get a different vehicle, so I don't have to worry about them.

 

Keep us updated on your progress.

 

Len

[docbainey]

 Bowling Green Kentucky -  argh, so much for Ohio,   Still an east coaster though :thumbup:

 

nice ride