ishnish Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hey guys, I have a 78 b210 2 dr sedan huch drives amazing but what it really needs is an upgrade on the brakes and ride height. I know of the 280zx mod for the struts. I hear with that, 280zx brakes are also a great uprade so that's a big money save when wanting to kill two birds with one stone. What my question is, is the 280zx mod for the brakes and struts only for the front of the car? I don't want to just lower the car for looks. I want it to handle significantly better along with providing a better ride. So will this mod complement that? Also, if I want to lower and upgrade the rear suspension, would this mod work here as well? I've read about running camaro springs, lowering blocks, re-arching the leaf springs, etc. What is the best option for handling, and ride quality? Lastly, is there a brake mod for the rear of the car? Thank you Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Fronts only. Quote Link to comment
floyd17 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hey guys, I have a 78 b210 2 dr sedan huch drives amazing but what it really needs is an upgrade on the brakes and ride height. I know of the 280zx mod for the struts. I hear with that, 280zx brakes are also a great uprade so that's a big money save when wanting to kill two birds with one stone. What my question is, is the 280zx mod for the brakes and struts only for the front of the car? I don't want to just lower the car for looks. I want it to handle significantly better along with providing a better ride. So will this mod complement that? Also, if I want to lower and upgrade the rear suspension, would this mod work here as well? I've read about running camaro springs, lowering blocks, re-arching the leaf springs, etc. What is the best option for handling, and ride quality? Lastly, is there a brake mod for the rear of the car? Thank you Get an H190 differential with Disk brakes. I think its on an early 80's 200sx. but I couldn't tell you what brake master cylinder to use. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The B-210 has leaf spring rear suspension. So the easiest thing to lower is a set of 2" lowering blocks and maybe an extra leaf to add firmness and reduce suspension movement under normal conditions that would risk bottoming out the under side of a lowered car. You have an H-150 differential. The only H-190 close to fitting is from an '82-'83 S110 200sx and first year '84 S12 200sx and they are coil and four link. It won't lower the car, it's a bit heavy duty (heavy) and has rear disc brakes. Unless doing an engine swap I wouldn't bother with it..... yet. Rear discs are nice but don't stop better than properly adjusted drums. They do have advantages though. They are simpler, lighter, easy to change pads, virtually maintenance free (no adjusting). They are also fade resistant from over heating, but as the fronts do 60-90% of the stopping you would have to race your car down a mountain (with a fat chick in the back) to get them that hot. Also on the plus side... they are cool looking. Quote Link to comment
ishnish Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Okay so the best bet here would be to do a 280zx swap for the brake and struts in the front and then lowering blocks with an extra leaf in the back? Quote Link to comment
Sierra Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Any 280 year and sub-model (Z, ZX, etc.) set of struts would fit the 78 B210? Quote Link to comment
hobbes_the_cat Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 ^^^ NO. Only the 79-83 280ZX front struts and brakes will work for the swap. The earlier Z cars struts are not what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Okay so the best bet here would be to do a 280zx swap for the brake and struts in the front and then lowering blocks with an extra leaf in the back? 280ZX struts in front, 2" blocks in the back, with an extra leaf that raised it 1/2" (so total 1.5" drop). I rolled the rear fender lips, and pulled the fronts slightly, but that's more because of wheel offset than anything. Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 That is such a pretty B. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 I would get a set of F-150 Ford rear leaf springs (cheap) or hell get another B-210 set. Break them down and experiment. You want a leaf with slightly less arch in it. An extra leaf may slightly raise your height as it will have a higher spring rate and the car won't settle as much on it's own weight. You'll want something that roughly matches the front spring rate. Keep in mind that over stiff in the rear will increase under steer on corners. The remedy is increase the front or decrease the rear. Try adding an extra second or third leaf up from the bottom. When you get the firmness you like then select the lowering block thickness. It may now be closer to 3". My 710 Goon I trimmed a 710 third leaf and placed it in the next position above the bottom one. So 7, instead of 6 leaves. Ride is about right (for me) Good shocks are terribly important and also resist bottoming out. I had a pair of mystery truck shocks (top picture) that I had to modify. (weld top eyelets on) The blocks and U bolts were for a 620 truck (H-190) that I got at Canby, but didn't want, but were crazy cheap. Glad I did as lowering my goon at the back came to about $10. Quote Link to comment
ishnish Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Datsunfreak, your car has got to be my favorite b210 on the forum! Thank you for a good example and details about your setup. Datzenmike, thank you for the input and pics! You say to get a leaf with slightly less arch in it. If I were to find an f-150 rear leaf spring, would they be slightly less ached? Also, say if I do get an extra leaf and also 280zx strut assembles, would this cause my rear to have a higher spring rate in the back? For the shocks, can I not remedy that by replacing the old oil with 20w motorcycle fork oil? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 The general rule is if the front goes stiffer you want to increase the rear in proportion to it. Once you get the stiffness where you want... then get the lowering blocks to set the ride height. It's possible to de-arch the springs, even with the added leaf to make them flatter. If so you may not even need lowering blocks. You can have a spring shop de arch them. An extra leaf will likely raise your ride height slightly because of the added 'stiffness'. The more arch the more it will go up. No way to know until all apart but look for springs that are flatter than what's on it. Then trial and error until you have what feels right. Sorry, but this is something with too many variables and one of them is preference. What works for me may not for you. Once lowered the car may vibrate from a changed angle. The driveshaft U joint transmits rotation around a bend, but to do this the driveshaft has to slow down and speed up. Sounds like bull shit I know, but it's true. Watch this gif. The left side turns are a steady speed while the right has to turn through an ellipse or oval. The wheels would have to speed up and slow down ... which being solidly on the pavement they can't do so it would vibrate. The answer is to have two U joints 180 to each other. When one accelerates the other is decelerating and they cancel. For this to work the two U joint angels must also be the same. When the body is lowered the drive shaft angles change and vibration can set it. The cure, naturally, is to measure the angles with the car on the ground, full tank of gas and a driver in it. To equalize the angles, measure them and shim the back or front of the the leaf spring where it is bolted to the axle at the U bolts. This will tilt the differential up or down. My 710 had a loud rumble that it didn't have before the lowering. With the driveshaft out I measured the angle of the transmission spline face using a compass an a string with a washer for a plumb bob. (low tech eh?) Then the pinion flange on the diff. They were noticeably different. A 1/8" shim between the spring and the back of the lowering block tilted the differential down at the front restoring the angles and the balance. The difference was astonishing. Quote Link to comment
ishnish Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Datzenmike, I've read on another thread a user said it's not the best idea to mess with leaf springs. I want my car to handle a lot better and would love to track it for fun so is this info correct?: "Rear: I used lowering blocks only and have (but not yet installed) some KYB Excel-G to improve cornering. I'm too old for the bouncy gas shock ride, so no Gas-A-Just for me. I've also read that messing with the leafs is a crap shoot: harder ride, lack of control of drop amount, creeks and groans, blah blah blah. Note: the leafs are 2" wide and you'll have to search for 2" wide blocks. They tend to start at 2 1/2" wide (not tall, wide). I can try to find the source among my receipts if you're interested, PM me. You will also have to buy custom U-bolts, so get those measurements right. They'll add $30 or more to the job. You can find a source online." Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 The worst leaf spring fails are: Removing one or more of them to lower. This reduces the spring rate which is the worst thing to do because... a/ The ride is soft and bouncy b/ The last thing you want is more suspension travel on a lowered vehicle that is closer to the road. c/ The differential is supported laterally by the spring pack. The tires can shift side to side on hard corners with leaves removed. Heating a spring to 'soften' and take the arch out. Flipping the spring pack to lower. A firmer spring but leaving the worn out shocks on. Shocks are shocks. There are good and better ones. Gas filled last longer and can run hotter without fade. Gas shocks are not 'bouncy' for who would make or use a shock that adds bounce to the ride?? This is probably a misconception by us old bastards and a stiffer spring forces the air in the tires to do some of the suspension work. Think bouncing beach ball. As stated it's trial and error there are no set rules for a preference. Try something and see what it's like. If ok, try a bit more until you find it's only getting worse, and then back up. Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Slight correction, my "extra leaf" is not added to the pack. It's this style. Much easier to install than one in the leaf pack, and easy to take off if it's too stiff for you (it won't be B)). How much it stiffens is based on how hard you crank down on the bolts. Mine was cranked all the way down. ^_^ Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I want to add...KYB Excel are nothing better than "OE Replacement" in quality, at best. Definitely nothing to write home about. Gas-A-Just are money. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Slight correction, my "extra leaf" is not added to the pack. It's this style. Much easier to install than one in the leaf pack, and easy to take off if it's too stiff for you (it won't be B)). How much it stiffens is based on how hard you crank down on the bolts. Mine was cranked all the way down. ^_^ That will raise the ride height for sure and I think is a poor choice, and why it's easy. I doubt it will make enough difference. For that much you could buy a set of leaves and do your own right. Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 That will raise the ride height for sure and I think is a poor choice, and why it's easy. I doubt it will make enough difference. It made a huge difference on my car. YMMV For that much you could buy a set of leaves and do your own right. Oh, I didn't pay that much. They are usually about $40 at your FLAPS. Quote Link to comment
ishnish Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 The worst leaf spring fails are: Removing one or more of them to lower. This reduces the spring rate which is the worst thing to do because... a/ The ride is soft and bouncy b/ The last thing you want is more suspension travel on a lowered vehicle that is closer to the road. c/ The differential is supported laterally by the spring pack. The tires can shift side to side on hard corners with leaves removed. Heating a spring to 'soften' and take the arch out. Flipping the spring pack to lower. A firmer spring but leaving the worn out shocks on. Shocks are shocks. There are good and better ones. Gas filled last longer and can run hotter without fade. Gas shocks are not 'bouncy' for who would make or use a shock that adds bounce to the ride?? This is probably a misconception by us old bastards and a stiffer spring forces the air in the tires to do some of the suspension work. Think bouncing beach ball. As stated it's trial and error there are no set rules for a preference. Try something and see what it's like. If ok, try a bit more until you find it's only getting worse, and then back up. Thank you for the info! So adding a spring is fine it's just the options you stated right there are why springs fail.. Oh and sorry I didn't know you were referring to the shocks in the rear. Any suggestions or links on what shocks would be best? Quote Link to comment
ishnish Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Slight correction, my "extra leaf" is not added to the pack. It's this style. Much easier to install than one in the leaf pack, and easy to take off if it's too stiff for you (it won't be B)). How much it stiffens is based on how hard you crank down on the bolts. Mine was cranked all the way down. ^_^ Wow that looks super convenient! Thank you so much for the link! Do you have a link to the lowering blocks you used? Quote Link to comment
ishnish Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I want to add...KYB Excel are nothing better than "OE Replacement" in quality, at best. Definitely nothing to write home about. Gas-A-Just are money. Thank you for the suggestion flatcat. But do you mean they're money as in expensive and but great or money as in that's the one to go for? Lol These are suggestions for the rear shock correct? Could you get me a link of specific ones you may be referring to? Quote Link to comment
ishnish Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Sorry guys I'm not sure how to multi-quote on the mobile version of this site. Datzenmike, why do you think the spring helpers aren't too great. It has awesome reviews on amazon. Quote Link to comment
ishnish Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Wow! Datzenmike I didn't even see your post about the u-joint until now! Tons of good info in this thread! Thank you for the gif that helps a LOT! Is there anyway you can get pictures of the parts that you adjusted and picture of the driveshaft angle you have? Would I also need to take the driveshaft out to do the adjustments you made? Sounds like a lot of work thay I may not have the know-how to do because I may not be as mechanically inclined as you. Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 My suggestion for GasAJusts was toean they are great. Not expensive. Good bang for buck. They are firm though. Not hard. Keep that in mind. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 . Datzenmike, why do you think the spring helpers aren't too great. It has awesome reviews on amazon. I never believe reviews by someone selling something. After all, are they going to post "they work like shit... want my money back"? I suppose they will work but not sure how well. I can say for sure they are, and look like a short cut. De-arching the spring or adding one looks better and sounds better in the telling than "I bolted a helper spring on". Quote Link to comment
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