Z-noob dilema... Should I buy a $900 Z31 or save for an S30?

[king bee66]

lol. Imagine putting $20k into a Z31.

 

 

maybe he has a thing for Knight Rider. 

[ArchetypeDatsun]

Don't get uptight on people's opinions, because that is what you wanted right? Opinions they gave you what they thought. Now if I were you I would do a ton more research on the L-6 that's in the S30 and the VG30 that's in the Z31. I got a buddy that's building a 700hp VG30, I can get you contacted with him if so you wish so he can school you on VG's. As for the L-6 its a great engine who said there crap obviously hasn't driven a Z much I had one for 6 years I loved it great power and decent mpg I did the turbo L28ET swap (Turbo engine swap) really fast for stock boost I had a slightly bigger turbo T3-TO4E very quick I never really did much to it since I sold it to get an 810 wagon which has a L24E L-6 good power nothing to go nuts over just a cruiser for me. I've seen some L-6 engines built on the cheap and make great power but some people that don't have the resources go the easier route and either buy a RB or V8 in my opinion I like both but I'm kinda against putting anything that's not from the same manufacture is sacrilege but its your car not mine. Go with what you love the most nothing wrong with coming in the middle and have best of both worlds in one package but I still suggest do tons more research before you make a final decision.

 

And since its about Z cars why don't you go to HybridZ.org and see if you get the same responses with the same questions you and opinions you wanted, a little advice start your research there but I warn you read up only and do a lot of searching threw there search bar all the answers you seek are there.

[mhub91]

The members might seem like dicks here but I don't think you realize how ridiculous your expectations are. And I say that in the nicest way possible.

 

"...Cheap, reliable, fast. Pick two."

 

I think this sums up this topic.

[joseph1994]

I'm still in awe with you. you're 19yrs old and are able to spend 20k....

 

damn I must be doing something wrong...

I already said I don't have 20k to drop within a few months.... You still don't seem to understand that.

 

well seeing as your total project cost is measured in five digits, start strong. don't base your whole plan on taking the economical route. if you're gonna drop ridiculous money, the best and only real way to justify it when you're 10k in and want out is being able to look at the car, and still have that same ambitious thought you had when you first saw it. also, check the CL up here in AL. if you've got good friends then you should have someone that can lend you a trailer, because i could fin a non-running s30 or two up here for cheap (er) than your 900.

I might have to check on that. Down in Florida Datsuns are rare as hell, running or not running so I've had very little luck in finding one that suits me and is within my current budget.

The members might seem like dicks here but I don't think you realize how ridiculous your expectations are. And I say that in the nicest way possible.

 

500whp, no matter the platform will always be VERY expensive and in a lot of cases it's not as easily achievable as you might think. Doing it the cheap way will also make it more expensive in the long run. Add in the fact that you'll be doing this with an older chassis and the problems build and build. If you've never had a car with a lot of power I would start small then see how you like it. 

 

You mentioned an LS swap which isn't exactly cheap either.

 

There's an old saying: "Cheap, reliable, fast. Pick two."

Again, let me worry about money. I just asked for the best route to take to reach my goal, and again 500 is just a ballpark number.... I've already said I'm more concerned with actuall performance times and trap speed.

['70dime]

I have a couple questions for you before I can give you a solid answer...

 

1. Why are you dead set on S30 or Z31? both being independent rear suspension which isn't preferable at a dragstrip and you said thats what you are most concerned with...

2. Why not go for a car thats already small block ready and better suited for what you want to do (drag race)?

3. You haven't even bought a car yet, and you are already planning to build the stock engine till it blows? then swap to LS, why not go straight to the finish line?

[joseph1994]

Don't get uptight on people's opinions, because that is what you wanted right? Opinions they gave you what they thought. Now if I were you I would do a ton more research on the L-6 that's in the S30 and the VG30 that's in the Z31. I got a buddy that's building a 700hp VG30, I can get you contacted with him if so you wish so he can school you on VG's. As for the L-6 its a great engine who said there crap obviously hasn't driven a Z much I had one for 6 years I loved it great power and decent mpg I did the turbo L28ET swap (Turbo engine swap) really fast for stock boost I had a slightly bigger turbo T3-TO4E very quick I never really did much to it since I sold it to get an 810 wagon which has a L24E L-6 good power nothing to go nuts over just a cruiser for me. I've seen some L-6 engines built on the cheap and make great power but some people that don't have the resources go the easier route and either buy a RB or V8 in my opinion I like both but I'm kinda against putting anything that's not from the same manufacture is sacrilege but its your car not mine. Go with what you love the most nothing wrong with coming in the middle and have best of both worlds in one package but I still suggest do tons more research before you make a final decision.

 

And since its about Z cars why don't you go to HybridZ.org and see if you get the same responses with the same questions you and opinions you wanted, a little advice start your research there but I warn you read up only and do a lot of searching threw there search bar all the answers you seek are there.

I wanted opinions on which car and motor I should choose and  why, not everyone telling me I'm out of my mind and being  a bunch of naysayers. Thank you for correcting everyone about the L28 too... I knew there were some really strong ones running around. Thank you for good feedback too. I'll consider all that and keep up on doing research.

[joseph1994]

I have a couple questions for you before I can give you a solid answer...

 

1. Why are you dead set on S30 or Z31? both being independent rear suspension which isn't preferable at a dragstrip and you said thats what you are most concerned with...

2. Why not go for a car thats already small block ready and better suited for what you want to do (drag race)?

3. You haven't even bought a car yet, and you are already planning to build the stock engine till it blows? then swap to LS, why not go straight to the finish line?

I also want it to be streetable. Drag racing is not all I want to do. I'm just using trap times and 1/4 times to give an idea of how fast I want the car to be but I would like for it to be decent in the corners also.

[datrod]

True... I still think it can be done for 20k if I'm patient and find the good deals. I'm not too familiar with these cars but I tons of people have figured out how to make big reliable safe power on a budget with other cars so I'm sure it can be done with Z cars too, while still keeping it Nissan and not going LS powered. I've gathered from you guys that the L28 may not be the best way to go. But what about the VG30? Not much feedback from you guys on that one yet. Tons of RB motors making big power too... How expensive is it to make power with those?

 

I'm sure there is power to be made with a VG30 But it will cost you. And I don't think you will get the #'s your looking for. As far as the RB Min $15K just to get it in the S30. You can make huge power with the RB, But it don't come cheap. I like the idea that you want to stay all Nissan.

 

Just get the S30 build a mild motor for it, Give up on the drag race #'s your looking for and just go do track days or auto X. You'll be way happier. Drag racing is boring to me with a bad ass S30. That's not what the car was built for. It's a sports car not a muscle car.

 

I have on a good day about 200HP in my auto X 240Z. I give vette's and other bigger HP cars a run for their money. Just sayin!!!!

[joseph1994]

I'm sure there is power to be made with a VG30 But it will cost you. And I don't think you will get the #'s your looking for. As far as the RB Min $15K just to get it in the S30. You can make huge power with the RB, But it don't come cheap. I like the idea that you want to stay all Nissan.

 

Just get the S30 build a mild motor for it, Give up on the drag race #'s your looking for and just go do track days or auto X. You'll be way happier. Drag racing is boring to me with a bad ass S30. That's not what the car was built for. It's a sports car not a muscle car.

 

I have on a good day about 200HP in my auto X 240Z. I give vette's and other bigger HP cars a run for their money. Just sayin!!!!

There are dyno vids of VG30s making excess of 500whp (closer to 600). Theres one that traps mid 140s which is sick... I don't see why 130mph traps are so unattainable to people on here. I understand it will cost more money but I'm choosing to go that route rather than drop a h/c/i full bolt on LS1 in with a 100 shot and make 550whp...

 

I like your idea about making it an auto x or road race car. Track days are way too expensive though I don't have time or money for that. I could maybe do one a year and then all auto x. I want it to handle well but still run respectable times in a straight line. Maybe 11s would be more reasonable? Again, people need to stop with the 500whp thing I should've never said that. Weight, suspension, drive train, and tires are all also huge factors. So with all that in check and maybe a milder engine build I might still be able to reach my goal. A guy with a 380whp S14 in my area runs 11s at 2700lbs on street tires, and little suspension work. So In a 2200lb 240z 380whp from an L28 should be good for low 11s no? I'd think so especially on drag radials. High elevens in a 300zx or 280z with some weight loss? From there I can still set up the suspension to do some work at auto x every once in while. 11s are not blistering fast to where I need a drag specific set up. I can still trap low 120s safely. 

 

Also 15k just to get the RB in an S30?? How so? The motor/trans/harness/ecu can be had for 3500. Thats for an Rb26 and RB25 would be about a grand cheaper. Then you need motor mounts and I'm sure other work but what causes it to be so expensive?

[mhub91]

Yeah... I disagree with the 15k to put an RB into an S30.... my buddy put a 1JZ in his for less than 10k including the motorset

[PDX Matt]

So maybe you should tell us what cars you've owned before that has made your expectations so high.

 

Quit watching YouTube videos. You seem to believe that everyone and their mom has a 500whp car that they just daily drive everywhere and drag races on the weekends.

[joseph1994]

So maybe you should tell us what cars you've owned before that has made your expectations so high.

 

Quit watching YouTube videos. You seem to believe that everyone and their mom has a 500whp car that they just daily drive everywhere and drag races on the weekends.

I drive an LS1 f-body and I've had an LS car obsession for several years now so thats what I'm most familiar with. I'm not saying everyone has a 500whp car... Im just saying it's possible, without spending 40 grand  or some ridiculous amount of money like you guys are saying. And again everyone should drop the 500whp thing.

[mhub91]

Just a side note here.....

 

When I went to tech school I built a small block chev with an estimate budget of 15k and put it in a T bucket.... max power was 430 ish.

 

That build included heads, cam, roller rocker, bored stroked and... you guessed it. A good ol wet shot off the bottle.

 

I think you got your work cut out for you.

[mhub91]

Did I mention that price did not include wheels, tires, race fuel, nos, misc amounts for fab. Etc etc etc

[joseph1994]

Just a side note here.....

 

When I went to tech school I built a small block chev with an estimate budget of 15k and put it in a T bucket.... max power was 430 ish.

 

That build included heads, cam, roller rocker, bored stroked and... you guessed it. A good ol wet shot off the bottle.

 

I think you got your work cut out for you.

I know I have my work cut out for me. I'm determined to get it done one way or another though. 

[king bee66]

i found it funny that you said track days are too expensive, but not the build you have in mind.  even a mild build has the potential to nickle and dime you to death, let alone doing a on full performance swap.  i believe you can do an rb swap with keeping your budget reasonable, but you are going to need a lot more help then youtube to get the job done.   good free help, which wont come until you at least own the car you are planning on building

[joseph1994]

i found it funny that you said track days are too expensive, but not the build you have in mind.  even a mild build has the potential to nickle and dime you to death, let alone doing a on full performance swap.  i believe you can do an rb swap with keeping your budget reasonable, but you are going to need a lot more help then youtube to get the job done.   good free help, which wont come until you at least own the car you are planning on building

I get what you're saying. Theres one track in my area, another about 120 miles north of me that rarely have events. Considering the cost of the build I won't have any extra money to go to the track. Track days are usually like 90-120 bucks correct? A lot more than an auto x event or a trip to the drag strip. Also not sure if I'm correct in saying this but I think it's also a lot harder on the car? I feel like one road course outing and my tires and brakes will be done.

[tr8er]

Buy a running car.  cut a hole in the floor below the throttle to increase horsepower.  Use that $20,000 to pay for school.  There is good quality advise.  

[bananahamuck]

 Also not sure if I'm correct in saying this but I think it's also a lot harder on the car? I feel like one road course outing and my tires and brakes will be done.

 

Yeah at the dragstrip your car will only roll about 3 feet past the starting line when your halfshafts lets go so the brakes and tires will still be in perfect condition as you load it onto the trailer,,,,,,,, you do have a trailer don`t you?? Not sure about your logic,,  but carry on.

[PDX Matt]

Get your car and motor first then go from there. It's easy to speculate and think of price and parts but get the car first then go from there. 

[tr8er]

alright, you dropped the 500wHP goal.  Thats a good step.  Sorry for my last comment, I can tell you are fed up with that.  Though i really do hope you are not building college debt while spending money on ego.  Compound interest is a bitch, and you will either start life with it working for or against you.  The odds of reversing that trend in a lifetime are surprisingly low.  That is all I was trying to get across.

 

Now cars.  My first car was a 280.  I loved this car.  Stock, it was faster than everything I ever raced on the road.  I'm sure I would have gotten spanked at the track.  But it was way enough power for me when I was 15.  I can only imagine what a turbo or two would have added.  And a swap to a larger engine would have likely gone too far for me and broke the bank on gas money.  Then I'd be out trying to pick up chicks with my bad ass ride, but no money to buy them a drink.  oops.  My recommendation would be to buy a good car to start with.  Throw a few grand at it right away to get it all tip-top, and tip the mechanic well.  Then see just how much more power you need to get where you want to go.  My suspicion is that you will want more power, but will be quite satisfied with what you have.  Then you will be able to swap this, upgrade that, and all the while be driving here regularly.  

 

I have seen many cars sit in a shop or a garage for months, or years before they go back up for sale because the money ran out, or the work was just not getting done.  Result:  money and time gone, and no action.  This would be a possible outcome if you buy a shell and an engine with a dream and expectation of a monthly $ allocation.  Great things do come to those who gamble, sometimes.  The other times are generally not publicized.  You are young, go ahead and take risks.  If you are set on taming a monster, go for it.  People on this site are used to your story, and they will continue to try to temper your enthusiasm until you illustrate a plan that they/we expect will end well for YOU!  They are not gaining anything by bashing your ideas.  They are giving, even though right now you don't want to hear it.  

[joseph1994]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joseph1994]

alright, you dropped the 500wHP goal.  Thats a good step.  Sorry for my last comment, I can tell you are fed up with that.  Though i really do hope you are not building college debt while spending money on ego.  Compound interest is a bitch, and you will either start life with it working for or against you.  The odds of reversing that trend in a lifetime are surprisingly low.  That is all I was trying to get across.

 

Now cars.  My first car was a 280.  I loved this car.  Stock, it was faster than everything I ever raced on the road.  I'm sure I would have gotten spanked at the track.  But it was way enough power for me when I was 15.  I can only imagine what a turbo or two would have added.  And a swap to a larger engine would have likely gone too far for me and broke the bank on gas money.  Then I'd be out trying to pick up chicks with my bad ass ride, but no money to buy them a drink.  oops.  My recommendation would be to buy a good car to start with.  Throw a few grand at it right away to get it all tip-top, and tip the mechanic well.  Then see just how much more power you need to get where you want to go.  My suspicion is that you will want more power, but will be quite satisfied with what you have.  Then you will be able to swap this, upgrade that, and all the while be driving here regularly.  

 

I have seen many cars sit in a shop or a garage for months, or years before they go back up for sale because the money ran out, or the work was just not getting done.  Result:  money and time gone, and no action.  This would be a possible outcome if you buy a shell and an engine with a dream and expectation of a monthly $ allocation.  Great things do come to those who gamble, sometimes.  The other times are generally not publicized.  You are young, go ahead and take risks.  If you are set on taming a monster, go for it.  People on this site are used to your story, and they will continue to try to temper your enthusiasm until you illustrate a plan that they/we expect will end well for YOU!  They are not gaining anything by bashing your ideas.  They are giving, even though right now you don't want to hear it.  

I have scholarships covering over half of it, plus my parents are supportive and saved college money for me over the years thankfully and those two things are covering almost everything with school. 

 

With that said this is probably the best response I've gotten. Especially the part I underlined. Thats pretty much exactly what I want to do. Buy something in decent shape that I can at least drive around town in and throw money at it, mod it, and eventually maybe swap it as I go. I guess I didn't get that across too well originally but I have already stated that this will be a long term project. Over time I can eventually build it into the monster I want whether it be with the L28 or VG30 or an RB or LS. You were spot on with that. That takes me back to my question. You said to buy a good car to start with. Is a Z31 (in the condition that I described in my original post) for 900 bucks worth it? Or would I be better off with an S30 in similar or better shape for about 3k?

 

As of right now I don't have a plan to illustrate honestly.... All I wanted to know was the best way to achieve my goal for the car, and which car would be best. From there then I can start establishing a plan to actually make it happen. Most said my goal wasn't realistic with the L28 and VG30, so I've already lowered my standards even though the internet has provided me with several examples showing what I want to do being done. I love constructive criticism, but bashing my ideas the way some people are just isn't necessary. People keep going on about money and telling me I can't do it. But with what I underlined in your response I don't see it being so farfetched if I take that route, which is the route I was always going for. A long term build with something I can drive around, maybe even daily drive and build as I go. Thanks for the good advice.

[datrod]

Yeah... I disagree with the 15k to put an RB into an S30.... my buddy put a 1JZ in his for less than 10k including the motorset

 

I just going by the two builds I've seen here local. But mind you they did it RIGHT complete up grade of the turbo and internals. Plus all the fab work. Wiring, Bigger brakes, ect, ect..

 

The list goes on for days. Sure you can drop a YOTA or any other motor in any junk yard car. Would it be fast sure. Would it be safe....Not so sure.

[joseph1994]

I just going by the two builds I've seen here local. But mind you they did it RIGHT complete up grade of the turbo and internals. Plus all the fab work. Wiring, Bigger brakes, ect, ect..

 

The list goes on for days. Sure you can drop a YOTA or any other motor in any junk yard car. Would it be fast sure. Would it be safe....Not so sure.

Upgrading the turbo and internals and getting bigger brakes is not necessary just to put it in an S30, but I see what you meant now especially since I said I wanted a lot of power 15k sounds about right.