robopineapple Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 hey guys, since i have had my 78 510 wagon (about a week) it has had a problem starting for the first time every day or so. after it starts up and i drive it for a couple minutes it will start right away. i can leave it for a hour or two, come back to it and it will start just fine also. i just replaced the battery, spark plugs, and put some oil in it cause it was pretty much empty. i was hoping that someone could help me out with this problem. one of my friends dads said that it might be that it is idling to low and that i should adjust the choke. anything help i guess :) thanks fellas 1 Quote Link to comment
RAlly_DatoB210 Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Fuel? My vw van will run excellent the if I turn it off it sucks all the fuel out of the filter, will crank over and fire up once then die out. My dirt bike swapped ruckus did the same thing after the bike sat the fuel would run back out of the line into the tank then I had to prime it And it was going Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted March 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 how did you fix it? Quote Link to comment
Dat Lurka Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Check and or replace all soft fuel lines Quote Link to comment
RAlly_DatoB210 Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Well I tried a lot of ratsuny ghetto rig fixes ranging from the model A ford pressurized fuel tank by trying to rig a bike pump to a plastic lid and some hot glue over the fill spot on the gas tank and pressurizing the tank to fill the line (looked shitty and took a million and 5 pumps but did eventually work) to stuffing a windex spray pump into the fuel line and drawing fuel from the tank spraying it down the throat of the slide type mikuni carb and kicking the bike over then re connecting the fuel hose rapidly (beat sucking on the fuel line to draw fuel from the tank) to the eventual fuck this bike method. I just re did all the fuel line ditched the inline return box dealio and whatever unburnt fuel would just drip on the street ripped the gas tank out of the floor and put it above the engine that way fuel would just run down to it. Lol But if you want to see if this will fix your car just see if your fuel pump is working or if the filter is plugged. If filter is dry or low on fuel at time of start unplug hose before inline filter (should be clipped to the firewall on passenger side if in factory spot) and have someone turn your car over. If you don't have someone/ really long arms just hot shoot the starter with a wire or some jumper cables. Just attach one end of wire to the positive terminal and the other end to the starter solenoid. Your car will either spray gas or it won't. If it doesn't spray gas out of the hose unhook the fuel line from the tank and blow air through it to see if it's clogged. My 78 510 was doing the same stuff. It sat for 12 years and had a lot of shit in the bottom of the tank and it clogged fuel line and filter. If that doesn't fix it you can always put an inline electric fuel pump and use it to draw fuel from the tank or replace the stock one. The standard datsun will always start trick is pump pedal a bunch turn key. If that doesnt work slosh gas down carb turn key mash pedal until it starts drawing fuel off vacume. Just my ghetto tips that usually work for me lol. 1 Quote Link to comment
RAlly_DatoB210 Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I know this is a 210 but here is a picture showing fuel filter were it should be and you can kinda sorta maybe see the inline fuel pump too lol And here is my ruckus for picture reference and the eventual well atleast it works solution. I sold it but it was eventually welded instead of zip tied jankily. Lol Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted March 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 thanks for the help so far, ill definantly go out in the morning and check this shit out. hopefully i can figure it out Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Some of these fixes are a little too elaborate as the 510 did and will start properly from the factory. Carburetors, when set up properly need a rich mixture during cold starts and during warm up. For this, a choke is used to manually close off the carburetor so the engine sucks in a richer mixture. In addition there is a fast idle circuit to rev the motor slightly to speed warm ups. Next time you can, go out to the cold motor and lift the top of the air filter and look at the primary barrel on the carb... that's the one on the valve cover side. The choke plate may be partly closed from the cold. Have someone pump the gas or work the throttle by hand. What you should see is the choke plate snap closed over the primary barrel. The car should start normally and rev up slightly. After about 8 min the choke should be almost fully open and the idle returning to normal. Remember.. to start a carburetor motor you have to pump the gas at least once to 'set' the choke to on, or starting will be difficult. Choke not coming on as usual This can simply be that the mechanical linkages are dirty and stuck or sticking. A carb spray can be used to clean them. Take the air filter off and put out of the way. Take note of where the hoses go so they can be returned. Rinse down the back of the carb where the throttle cable goes. Hold the throttle part open and with the other hand close and open the choke plate several times to loosen it. Take note of which linkage parts move and make sure they are free to move to the full extent of their travel. Near the throttle cable, look for the fast idle cam. It's usually a plastic part that drops down as the choke closes and the throttle closes on one of the steps holding it part open to increase the idle speed. It lifts up out of the way as the choke opens allowing the idle to drop to normal. Fast idle cam... note the small steps that the throttle closes on to hold it open It could also be that the choke is simply not adjusted rich enough. This is the choke and the electric choke heater assy. Inside is a bi-metallic coil of wire that contracts when cooled to rotate the choke plate closed and expands and unwinds when warmed to open the choke. An electric heater is calibrated to take about the same time as it takes to warm the motor and it is automatic so you don't have to remember to shut it of manually.. The three screws around the outside can be loosened and the choke holder rotated to make the choke richer or leaner. The best time to adjust is when the motor is cold and you can watch the choke plate close. I wouldn't try adjusting this yet until you have tried cleaning and loosening the linkage first to see if this fixes your cold start problem. Clogged fuel filter? If it was running normally the day before then the carb is getting plenty of fuel. The carb float chamber will be full of fuel overnight and there will be plenty of fuel for a start in the morning. On a full carb you can drive several blocks, certainly enough for a start. Quote Link to comment
bananahamuck Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Like he said ^^^ sounds like the choke isn`t working properly when cold .. i have no choke ,, wired open because i can't afford good carb,, and it starts exactly the same way.. Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted March 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 alright cool, im going to get my hands dirty right now then! thanks again guys. management is going to come out and yell at me though xD Quote Link to comment
yellowdatsun Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 You have an HL510, not a PL510. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Yeah that was me. Was thinking HL and of course wrote PL, duh. A title should, with as few a words as possible, say what the post is about. Saying "a quick question" means every member has to open the post to find out what it is. Simply putting HL510 means that Roadster or truck owners can skip it if they want. Also, ten years from now using the SEARCH function for A10 or HL510 info will assure that this question and possible answer is available easily. 1 Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted March 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 quick update, i didnt have time to check it much before work but i did get it started. it started up the first try then died after like four seconds. did the same thing the second time but lasted like six seconds. then the third time it started and kept sounding like it would die but didnt, revved it a bit and started to idle like normal. dont know if this changes anyones thoughts on what it might be, but just thought i would share. going to really dig in and look at everything on easter when i can go over to my buds and get it on some stands and use some real tools xD Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I'd lay odds the fuel pump is shot and siphoning fuel out of the bowl of the carb upon shutdown and/or leaking down over time. Replace mechanical fuel pump, see if that doesn't solve the problem. Used to do that on the L motor in my 510 when I had a bad diaphragm. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't know Matt. Once the fuel is in the bowl how can it get up to and through the closed needle valve. Besides all you have to do is look at the glass front of the carb to see if the fuel is there or not. Robopineapple. Did you spray carb cleaner on the linkages to loosen any stuck parts? Did you watch to see if the choke snaps shut when you pump the gas when starting a cold motor? Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted March 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 havnt had time yet,sorry. ill get to it tomorrow when all my buds are working on cars and shit ;) ill let y'all know Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 that was before i really looked at the problem, my friends dad helped me out and we found out that it is missing a whole assembly there -.- like a bracket thing. just thought that i would post the video anyways so you guys can get a idea of what im talking about Quote Link to comment
bananahamuck Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Yep,, like we said the choke wasn`t working.. your welcome. :lol: It seemed like you were over thinking the problem ,,,As were a few parts changers on here ,WTF`s up with that?? but i digress,, just how you described the start up it sounded like a choke because like i said mine is wired open and starts exactly like yours does.. ,,,,just remember to keep it simple ,, my sons car just like yours, starts every time even in sub freezing weather because it has to get to school everyday ,, it it didn`t,, the first thing i would check is the choke. cuz that is usually the only variable if it works fine in every other way except on start-up. ... and that goes for hot or cold engine. 1 Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 one of the other guys that was there was like "how the fuck did you even get that here?" lol i think im going to look to find a replacement piece. how did you wire your sons up? you guys are a big help so far btw, thanks alot! :) Quote Link to comment
bananahamuck Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 My sons is not jerry rigged it works correctly,,, it`s my crap pile that has the half-assed wired open carb... :D My sons is a stock Hitachi which when set right ( shear luck ) is probably one of the best over-all carbs ever...Although if not are complete garbage ,,,,, no in between.. :confused: Mine is a bastard Motorcraft 5200 Weber off a Ford 2300 engine and because of the many variations, i didn`t have the choke parts to make work correctly ,, so i wired the butterfly permamently open... So it has a hard time when cold ,, but after warm up runs and drives perfectly normal. But i drive mine for fun so waiting a few extra minutes for it to warm up isn`t like a daily driver.. Yours looks like a "normal" Weber so you might be able to scare up some linkage easier ...might. (edit) ,,FYI ,, i was totally joking about the your welcome thing... cuz i am wrong 90% of the time when i guess at a members problem.... or more.. :rofl: . So i was basking in the glory of my one correct answer.. 1 Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 all good, maybe just go to a pick-n-pull with my fingers crossed Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted April 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 quick update for who ever cares lol. found the linkage i needed and got it mounted on, need to tweak it some more after i get some new hard wire or whatever it is called for the choke lever thing. its all kinked, bent, and sticky... also i need to find a better screw for the linkage 1 Quote Link to comment
bananahamuck Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 quick update for who ever cares lol. found the linkage i needed and got it mounted on, need to tweak it some more after i get some new hard wire or whatever it is called for the choke lever thing. its all kinked, bent, and sticky... also i need to find a better screw for the linkage Ratsun cares ,, :console: Quote Link to comment
robopineapple Posted April 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 cant get my car started again -.- it fired right up after i messed with the choke but died after like five seconds. after that i couldnt get it start. i took off the linkage again to see if it would work that way and nothing happened. i almost got it started when i gave it some gas while it was trying to turn over, but i heard a pop and it stopped. one of the times when i did that flames came out of the carb... lol oops. some one was saying that it sounded like i had flooded it. i put more oil in cause i was low but it didnt help. tried to push it and start it, but that didnt help either. FUCK. haha im open to suggestions again, would love to fix this problem for good. i was going to go to maaco too so i could get a quote on a paint job :( Quote Link to comment
izzo Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 Check for vacuum leaks, double check timing Sounds like you should get this squared away 100% in mechanics before worrying about paint :confused: :w00t: Quote Link to comment
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