74 610 wagon race car build questions

[Dirty Evo]

ok guys, whole bunch of annoying questions i can't find answers to, but hoping you guys can help. I have 510's but this is first 610. I don't know ANYTHING about them. NOTHING have not even looked at the car yet except photos.

 

An AWESOME chica here is donating her 74 610 wagon to convert to race car (i track / race various crap). Initially just for CHUMP CAR, but eventually to actually do some regular endurance racing.

 

questions:

1) suspension: is it or is it not the exact same as 510? I have heard both.. that its identical suspension and that its SIMILAR but NOT IDENTICAL? so would things like engine , 4 speed tranny (stock 510 unit) , etc, be interchangeable?

 

2) would the 280ZX front strut / rotor / hub / caliper be a direct swap like it is on the 510?

 

3) suggestions for cheap rear disc conversion?

 

4) will the Z tranny be a bolt in conversion also if i decide to go that route (like it is on the 510?)

 

5) anybody selling fiberglass rear decklid or other panels?

 

yes, i know the leaf spring rear suspension makes it not a great race car... but i like wagons, its here and its CHUMP. also the thing we have foudn in endurance racing is that if you can build a solid, quick, RELIABLE car and keep it ON THE TRACK and stay OUT OF THE PITS that is as important as anything.. we aren't trying to win, just have fun. Eventually we will do the fabrication for converion to 510/610 IRS, but that is down the road (due to cost)... cross that bridge later

 

Any info you guys have on my questions would be so appreciated.

[Zeusimo]

280ZX Struts Swap In

200SX Rear Brakes Will Swap In

Use 15/16 Master

280ZX 5 Speed Will Swap In If Automatic (I THINK)

 

Also Post OICS

[Dirty Evo]

280ZX Struts Swap In

200SX Rear Brakes Will Swap In

Use 15/16 Master

280ZX 5 Speed Will Swap In If Automatic (I THINK)

 

Also Post OICS

 

THANK YOU.. yeah, i just foudn topic on search looks like 280 Z 5 speed is direct bolt in swap on the 610, so that is convenient. That zx strut swap, sweet, just need to locate another set (just picked up one set yesterday for my 510 race car)... thanks for info on the rear brakes, cool... this is all making way more sense now.

 

I think we can get this car easily dialed in for CHUMP and then as time / $$$ free up next year, start to look at the IRS swap... but that is much later when i have money to pay a fabricator

 

Thanks for your advise

 

Pics SOON, i need to get a pic of everything... probably after 9/23 weekend when i iwll have all my cars together finally (they are all over at different shops / locations at the moment)

[ProjectFeint]

To be more specific on the zx strut swap you want to keep your 510/610 lower ball joints as the zx ones wont fit on the lca (right now would be a good time to replace them if necessary), also keep the 610 steering arms~

82~83 200sx is the years you should look for disk brakes.

Some differences in the suspension such as sway bars but it shouldn't interfere with L series engine/tranny swaps as long as you use the appropriate mounts.

~Someone correct me if im wrong~. But yes let's see some OICS ;)

[bonvo]

also to clarify the 610 came stock with long tail 4 speeds so the zx 5 speeds quite literally bolt in from what i can tell in the coupe and sedans the suspension is the same basic lay out the front struts are different on later models but the irs i think is identical as for a wagon it would have a straight axle and leafs making it identical to a 510 goon

[bonvo]

To be more specific on the zx strut swap you want to keep your 510/610 lower ball joints as the zx ones wont fit on the lca (right now would be a good time to replace them if necessary), also keep the 610 steering arms~

82~83 200sx is the years you should look for disk brakes.

Some differences in the suspension such as sway bars but it shouldn't interfere with L series engine/tranny swaps as long as you use the appropriate mounts.

~Someone correct me if im wrong~. But yes let's see some OICS ;)

no your spot on there the swaybars are differnt and aside from how the motor mounts attach the crossmembers are identical

[Dirty Evo]

excellent, thanks

 

question: so the ZX tranny would be a bolt in.. don't need to shorten driveshaft like on the 510, right? cool.

 

What about earlier Z trannies? also direct swap? if i can get a 5 speed offd earlier 280Z (have a helluva time locating ZX)... although i am hunting for a ZX for the front suspension also.. need to find one to pull the tranny AND the susupension!

[datzenmike]

questions:

1) suspension: is it or is it not the exact same as 510? I have heard both.. that its identical suspension and that its SIMILAR but NOT IDENTICAL? so would things like engine , 4 speed tranny (stock 510 unit) , etc, be interchangeable?

 

It's very close to the 510 goon for sure. Only the '74 610 wagon with standard transmission and all '75s and on standards and automatics got the H-190... all other earlier years got the H-165.

 

The 610 goon uses a two piece 3 U joint driveshaft similar to the 620 truck.

 

The front struts? You can ask others for confirmation but (I believe) the early 610s were very similsr to the 510 struts. Later 610s got a larger spindle and bearing (you will need to confirm this) If replacing with zx struts this is a moot point.

 

 

2) would the 280ZX front strut / rotor / hub / caliper be a direct swap like it is on the 510?

 

It would be subject to the same conditions as the 510. You would need 14" rims to clear the calipers in most cases. Wheel track shortens I believe, and you will need a 15/16" zx master cylinder upgrade from the 510's 3/4". If the front is lowered bump steer will increase.

 

 

3) suggestions for cheap rear disc conversion?

 

You would have to race pretty hard to need rear discs. They are mostly for show and better for never having to have to do any maintainance on them. I would slide this down on the list as there are more important things needed.

 

'82-'83 S110 (200sx) rear axle. Both are H-190 but the S110s have disc brakes. It may be as simple as swapping the rear axles. If not the complete rear axle housing could be used. You will need to cut the 4 link and coil spring perches off and weld on the leaf spring mounts.

 

4) will the Z tranny be a bolt in conversion also if i decide to go that route (like it is on the 510?)

 

It's a common mistake that a 5 speed is faster or some sort of racing transmission... it isn't. What it is, is a way to save gas on the highway. That said, the '80 and on zx 5speeds do have a close® ratio 1st to 4th gear set which favors racing by lessening the RPM drop between shifts.

 

The zx 5 speed is NOT a bolt in swap on the 510. However it should fit the 610 with only mods to the rear tranny mount. No driveshaft shortening required. The FS5W71B is also a much stronger transmission than the 610 4 speed. Any earlier z or truck or later Maxima 4 or 5 speed will fit but the ratios are not as ideal as the later zx.

 

5) anybody selling fiberglass rear decklid or other panels?

 

Unwise on a wagon that supports a rear window. If racing it just tear out all the interior to save weight. Door panels, regulators, arm rests, rear seats, headliner, carpet. Replace heavy glass with Lexan.

 

 

yes, i know the leaf spring rear suspension makes it not a great race car... but i like wagons, its here and its CHUMP. also the thing we have foudn in endurance racing is that if you can build a solid, quick, RELIABLE car and keep it ON THE TRACK and stay OUT OF THE PITS that is as important as anything.. we aren't trying to win, just have fun. Eventually we will do the fabrication for converion to 510/610 IRS, but that is down the road (due to cost)... cross that bridge later

 

Any info you guys have on my questions would be so appreciated.

 

Nothing wrong with leaf springs. (I like goons too)To make a good IRS suspension work on the track you need stiffer springs, sway bar, big shocks... in fact the back end ends up so firm you might as well have a solid axle. :lol: Solid axles don't have camber and toe issues when accelerating and decelerating, specially in corners.

 

 

 

Something not mentioned that needs to be, is replacing the rear end gears with something much much lower. It's very unlikely you are going to reach top end speed when racing and the 610 is geared for reasonable good performance and economy with the L18/l20B motor. I believe the 610 has a 3.889 ratio but for racing a 4.375 or 4.625 would increase the acceleration and keep the revs up. A diff swap is probably the best ever bang for the buck mod you can make.

[Dirty Evo]

datzenmike: thanks for detailed reply.. pretty much nailed a lot of what i was thinking on some things.... i actually keeping rear drums on my 510 sedan race car, i like for the no maintenance. My only reason for considering discs on the 610 build was if we end up running in the rain i figured possibly drums not so great? but probabl just me overthinking it.

 

on your idea for lexan, yeah, that actually will be the first thing done. And others have said the same thing about the leaf spring / solid rear axle.. not really as bad as people want to say, several folks with experience said it should be fine, but they felt the weight was a penalty.. heard somebody mention perhaps using fiberglass leaf springs? didn't know that could be done but somebody said it to me.

 

Anyway... so i think i should be in good shape, because everything you said made sense (which is amazing considering how i am just learning on the these cars) and i get it... so that is cool you explained great.

 

question for you: what DIFF would be good? tracks i will be on are Thunderhill, Infineon and Laguna Seca. Running L16 initaly dynoed at 117hp (eventually will build a L18 or L20, but after i go through my two rebello L16s) recomendation for diff for me to start looking for?

 

thanks again for the detailed reply... hoping to get all my cars together this weekend or next and then will post a couple photos including track day on 22-23rd (with the 2 sedans and 914-6.. not the goon, which is just a shell right now!)

[RedBanner]

Keep in mind, if swapping a new motor in at some point, the 610 pan and pickup tube is different than the 510.

The motor seems to sit 1/2 lower?

[datzenmike]

Those drums will get HOT! Rain won't do anything but cool them. Disc brakes fade from being submerged in water too just like drums but come back quicker... submerged in water is unlikely on a race course.

 

As for rear end ratios it would depend on motor power and top RPMs plus how long the straightaways are or if there are lots of slow turns. The rear end ratio would have to be thought out to take advantage of all this. For example a short course with lots of slow speed turns and hills would favor a 4.625 or 4.88 where top end isn't going to happen and power can be consentrated at slower speeds. On a long course with long back straights and more rounder faster curves a 4.11 or maybe 3.90 would give higher speesd.

 

The tire diameter can also be varied to fine tune.