trouble shifting 74 b210

[DriftSK]

So there a guy selling a 74 b210 with a 4speed in it and it runs but he cant shift . said he replaced the clutch master cylinder or something to do with the clutch but not the cluch it self. It comes with a 5 speed and some other stuff but he didnt know if it would fit proprely or even if the transmission was the problem.

Hes selling it for a good price I was just wondering what i'd need or what you guys think is wrong with it. Thanks

[datzenmike]

No way to know what he knows about cars and may have just swapped parts and not bled it??? Probably needs the clutch hydraulic system bled some more.

 

Possibly the clutch is cooked and dragging also. If you buy assume the worst... that you will have to remove the transmission and possibly replace the clutch. If you're good with that then a bad slave or just needing to be bled properly would be a bonus.

[Dguy210]

With a 74 B210 you should be able to lay on the ground, and with the door open actuate the clutch pedal with one hand while watching the slave cylinder move. If you have long arms you can adjust the slave cylinder at the same time.

 

Except for the dogleg 63 series 5 speed, the slave cylinder should be on the left hand side and easily visible. For the dogleg you can still see it just not quite as easily.

 

Anecdotally, I've replaced the slave cylinders several times on the A series drivetrain, and a master cylinder only twice. I've never replaced a clutch so bad that the car could not be shifted, although I did have the pivot point the clutch arm rotates on break off once :confused: .

[DriftSK]

I think it might of been the slave cylinder he said he replaced not the master

[az_rat210]

With the car not running, you should be able to shift through all the gears. If you cannot, then its an issue with the gears, shift clips or such. If you can shift it while not running then its clutch related. If the clutch master cylinder was just replace it may only be an adjustment problem at the slave cylinder, clutch pedal, air in the line or all 3.

 

The 5-speed as long as its an FS5W60A or FS5W63A should fit fine. Not that the spline count on the input shaft is different for the 60A vs 63A. The output shaft spline count I believe is exactly the same. If the 5-speed is a 60A then the input shaft is the same spline count and diameter as the 4-Speed. Note that the rear mounts are different between these transmissions. The 60A from the later 210's has a 1" difference in mount height. You could still use the 4-Speed rear mount but would need to add 1" spacers between the mount and chassis for the proper angle. (ok, not quite 1", it is actually 22mm).

[datzenmike]

There were three 5 speeds that fit the B-210/210 motors. Two were dogleg shift pattern.

[B210GX]

The 5-speed as long as its an FS5W60A or FS5W63A should fit fine.

 

This line in AZ Rat210's statement is not true. the 74 B210 has the small trans. tunnel. ('75 on up will fit) only the FS5W60A will fit and it will still need to be modified as the back up lamp switch will hit the tunnel. Input shafts are different on the FS5W63A's as well as the output shaft. It would require the driveline from that 5spd or an automatic.

 

 

My 2 cents

[Dguy210]

The 5-speed as long as its an FS5W60A or FS5W63A should fit fine.

 

This line in AZ Rat210's statement is not true. the 74 B210 has the small trans. tunnel. ('75 on up will fit) only the FS5W60A will fit and it will still need to be modified as the back up lamp switch will hit the tunnel. Input shafts are different on the FS5W63A's as well as the output shaft. It would require the driveline from that 5spd or an automatic.

 

My 2 cents

 

Actually this depends on if the car started life as an auto or a manual. If an auto an FS5W63A will fit fine, and the rear transmission mount fits but just needs some extra holes drilled. This is what I'm running in my '74, using an auto driveshaft. The clutch setup for the larger input shaft is available from Amazon for ~65$.

[Dguy210]

Let's make this easy, DriftSK go buy the B210. Even worse case scenario the repairs are pretty easy. If it is any easy fix for the clutch drive the car and enjoy. If the clutch is toast and the 5 speed won't work, you can probably still sell the 5 speed on here to somebody to cover the cost of the clutch. If it is the correct 5 speed and the 4 speed and clutch is toast, well transplant that bad boy.

 

Anyway you cut it, buy the car, post some pics of the 5 speed, and get help to diagnose the problem when you have the car in your possession.

 

But most importantly, make sure you post pics :thumbup:

[DriftSK]

so I picked it up finally it runs good, can drive it around in first and the brakes need to be replaced . it doesnt shift while running but when its stoped you can shift it.The clutch pedal doesnt feel like there is any pressure also reverse is on the right side if that means anything. Just picked it up tonight so whats the first thing i should check?

[datzenmike]

Air in the hydraulics for the clutch. Needs fluid and bleeding to remove the air. You're basically trying to drive it without a clutch.

[DriftSK]

heres the sellers ad if you want a look i dont know how to upload pics yet

http://saskatoon.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1974-datsun-b210-W0QQAdIdZ415871276

[Ranman72]

take it for a drive where you dont have to stop drive till about 4000 rpm let off the gas and pull out of gear gently pull towards second if you do this right you can shift with no clutch works the same in all gears

its all about matching tranny and motor rpms

its fun to learn how to do and will let you test drive it right away

to down shift pull out of gear give the throttle a quick push and gently push the lever into the next lower gear

this takes a little talent but is fun to learn

if you have to stop just do it and start the car in first gear

DONT TRY THIS IN A POPULATED AREA IT IS A BAD IDEA

 

second option blead the system just like you would brakes dont run it out of fluid while doing this

then go try to shift without the clutch

 

post your pics in photo bucket then just copy and paste

[datzenmike]

Shifting without the clutch will only wear the synchro out. The synchros basically have to do the job of the clutch and bring the spinning gears, one connected to the motor and one connected to the rear wheels, to the same speed so they can mesh.

[DriftSK]

i know to not drive without a clutch i had worn sycros on my old mustang from this. BUT also when i was bleeding it today i notice that the slave cylinder wasnt moving at all when i press down the clutch pedal is that the problem?

[datzenmike]

Could be. Fluid cannot be compressed so it's great for transmitting pressure from the master cylinder to the slave. Foot pressure in at one end and clutch arm movement out at the other. Air can easily be compressed so if there is air trapped in the system, peddle travel is wasted squeezing the air into a smaller space.

[DriftSK]

 

so heres what im working with

[DriftSK]

Any suggestions on whats the best way to bleed the slave? I took it off and cleaned the inside and the piston because i could see a ring off rust starting at the top of the piston.

Also should i bench bleed my matser if I ran it out of fluid? If so whats an easy way to get that bottom nut off the master?

[datzenmike]

If it's falling apart I'm sure you've bled it properly.

 

I can't see any reason for this so this is why I asked if the clutch arm will move by hand. If there is no resistance the slave will just push and fall out the back.

[Ranman72]

DONT take the bottom nut off

fill the reservoir crack the bleeder on the slave loose so fluid can start coming out watch the reservoir and top off dont let it run dry

when you get a steady stream of fluid close the bleeder on the slave

then bleed it like you do brakes and dont let the reservoir go dry

top it off check movement and shifting

[DriftSK]

I think i figured it out, when the last owner rebuild the slave cylinder he didnt put the spring back in he just put piston in without it, and the the clutch arm moves it moves about a centimeter or two when i move it by hand.

also when i get this slave thing sorted out the nuts on the pushrod should they be setup so they are not pushing on the clutch arm but still against it?

[DriftSK]

Im having some trouble finding a spring for the slave. All the parts stores either dont stock any parts or their rebuild kit doesnt include a spring.

Is their any other slave cylinders that will work or slave cylinder rebuild kits that i could use or just use the spring out of? from a newer model.car that they might stock

[datzenmike]

He has movement.

 

The problem is the piston pushes all the way out of the slave. My thinking is that there is little or no resistance on the clutch arm and it doesn't push the piston and the fluid back up into the master reservoir. So each pump of the clutch pushes the slave further andfurther untill it pops out the back.

[DriftSK]

the slave is fine im missing the spring that goes inside ,so when i was trying to bleed it the piston just stayed push down and only let a litte bit of fluid inside the cylinder it needs a spring to suck the fluid in after its been pushed down. I just cant find a spring

[Dguy210]

Im having some trouble finding a spring for the slave. All the parts stores either dont stock any parts or their rebuild kit doesnt include a spring.

Is their any other slave cylinders that will work or slave cylinder rebuild kits that i could use or just use the spring out of? from a newer model.car that they might stock

 

This slave cylinder is not hard to find at all, and is pretty damn cheap. Try Rockauto, hell alot of the local auto places may carry it.