Clutch not disengaging

[strang3majik]

Well...trying to move the car for the first time and the clutch will not disengage for me to put it in gear.

 

First of, its an L20B with a dogleg 5 speed with a new 200sx throwout bearing to match the transmission and a new 510 clutch master/slave/line.

 

Anyway, I have bled all the air, but, when I push the clutch pedal in (which feels like a race cable clutch) the clutch won't disengage.

 

Now, when I put the slave cylinder rod in, I actually had to move the clutch fork with a breaker bar so I could fit it in there...not sure if that's normal.

 

Also, how do the adjustments work? I have not adjusted it at the master or at the slave.

 

And...lastly, the rod the slave cylinder came with was longer than the original one, I tried the original one to start with, with the same effect.

 

Help please!

[banzai510(hainz)]

Now, when I put the slave cylinder rod in, I actually had to move the clutch fork with a breaker bar so I could fit it in there...not sure if that's normal.

 

why dont you put the rod in the cylinder FULLY . then put the slave cylinder on the trans and add the 14mm bolts.

 

Just to let you know the 200sxx the bearings arw the same.

 

However the 510 pressure plate and the 200sx pressure plate did hav different diaphram heights thus could be causing a slave arm length issue.

 

hat exactly parts you have.

whats the clutch from

whats the T/O bearing carrier from.

the 5 speed. clutch fork with the dimple? or the 510 one with the hole(uses the half ball and jam nut to adjust free play in fork arm)

[paradoxx]

exactly, if the pressure plate is different as Hainz says, thats the issue.

 

For example, if you move a couple of turns on the slave cyl adjutsment screw makes a big difference, imagine what a half inch will make on the fork and pressure plate. I think that the 200sx pp is thinner than the 510 pp.

[strang3majik]

The clutch was on the engine...which I believe is out of a 77? 620.

The transmission, clutch fork, and throwout bearing are all 200sx, just has a dimples.

The slave cylinder is for a 72 510, has the half round circle with the jam nut thing.

 

When I said I had to do that with the slave, I had to put one bolt in it and swing it out to put the rod in, the almost fully push the. Clutch fork to install the slave. I don't think the slave is allowing the clutch fork retract all the way...but, the clutch isn't disengaging, so I don't believe that's the issue.

 

If anything, it seems the rod is too short, but, not sure how youd install a longer one.

[datsunaholic]

Still, you have several vexing issues but one common thing- you used the throwout collar from the transmission, which is the wrong thing to do. The throwout collar MUST match the pressure plate.

 

If the pressure plate is the 225mm clutch disc type from a '77 620, then that's the collar you need. It does not matter that you have a 200SX dogleg in there.

 

Secondly, if you can't get the clutch slave installed without moving the fork arm, you have issues as well. With the pushrod and slave pushed all the way in, you should be able to install the slave easily. So your problem is twofold- you certainly have the wrong throwout collar, and you may or may not have the wrong pushrod.

[banzai510(hainz)]

strang3majik

 

Datsun trucks L20s used a 225mm set up cause a bigger and heavier flywheel to haul stuff

 

datsun cars L20s used a 2200mm but the diaphrame height is different than a 510(same as Roadster pressure plate height also)

 

all car slaves are the same. 510 thru 200sx ect......those are inter changable. but when you buy one they come with the correct rod for the car ordered. 510 will use the threaded rod. 200sx and later will use a rod with just a rounded end.

 

Now if you have a 200mm bearing on a 225 mm pressure plate thay is wrong.

 

we are only guessing what you got.

Only you know. take pictures and measurements with a tape measure,show use photos

[strang3majik]

So...the bearing isn't large enough around to grab the fingers on the the clutch? Or is maybe too short?

 

I believe the slave is fine...I have a video I can upload later of it...it has a lot of throw.

 

Also, I guess it is thee 225mm clutch.

[wayno]

So...the bearing isn't large enough around to grab the fingers on the the clutch? Or is maybe too short?

 

I believe the slave is fine...I have a video I can upload later of it...it has a lot of throw.

 

Also, I guess it is thee 225mm clutch.

 

What they are telling you is that the throwout bearing/collar is wrong, the easy way to say this is whatever throwout bearing/collar you had on the other transmission

, is the one you should have used on this transmission, the throwout bearing/collar is matched to the clutch cover/pressure plate/flywheel.

[datzenmike]

These are some I've collected over the years. probably 225mm and 200mm. Lots of different sizes.

 

 

.

[strang3majik]

Ok...another update, didn't want to start another thread.

 

I got the EXACT same throwout bearing that was with this engine/clutch before, installed it today...exactly the same results. And, the throwout bearings were different, the actual body of this one is longer, but, still, the clutch will not disengage.

 

 

So...what could it possibly be?

 

Once again, when I installed the slave cylinder, I had to manually move the clutch fork so the rod could fit. With the longer rod, it barely fit. So I obviously have the wrong length rod, but, I don't see why too long of one would stop the clutch from disengaging. It seems that wouldn't allow it to engage.

 

But, clutch will not disengage. I'm getting full movement of the slave, but no disengagement. With the short rod, pedal feels normal, with the long rod, feels like a cable/linkage race clutch.

 

 

 

Also...not sure if it matters, but....

 

this engine with 225mm clutch was mated to a long tail 5 speed, we separated them, I now have that throwout bearing that was with it before, and, now I'm mating it to a 200sx dogleg 5 speed with the same 225mm clutch.

 

I'm just not understanding whats going on, and I don't want to pull the transmission again.

[strang3majik]

bumpity...trying to figure out a plan of attack for tomorrow...lol

[datsunaholic]

How long has this clutch been on there?

 

1) You don't have enough throw. Usually though this feels like a really weak pedal.

2) You have enough throw, but the clutch disc is too thick (or swelled up, I had that happen) and can never disengage.

3) You have enough throw, but the clutch disc and pressure plate don't match

4) You have enough throw, but the clutch disc is rusted to the flywheel/pressure plate.

 

Or the clutch disc is on backwards. Or the input shaft is totally jammed in what's supposed to be a pilot bushing. Etc Etc.

[strang3majik]

I'm not sure how long the clutch has been on there. The actual steel of the pressure plate was clean/shiny when we removed the original long tail trans, and, supposedly the engine/trans was pull from a running/driving truck.

 

But, the clutch itself looked to be in good shape, though I did not remove it...

 

so...

1. Seems I have more than enough throw, as I said, feels like a race clutch, my leg shakes as I'm pushing it in (with the longer rod, the shorter rod feel like every other hydraulic clutch car I've driven)

2. Not sure how that would happen...it was supposedly running and driving...less is swelled up for some reason.

3. They've never been apart, so, I doubt this is the case.

4. This is a good possibility since the engine sat for a little while (a couple months I guess).

 

If thats the case can it be broken free without removing the trans/etc?

[wayno]

You are probably going to have to pull it apart again, you need to check certain things, the pilot bearing needs to be checked, the clutch cover needs to be checked, if any of the arms are bent or broken, that could be the issue, check the clutch disc itself, make sure it's not backwards, as that would cause the problem your having for sure, the tolerances are fairly tight in there, so everything has to be correct.

As for ajusting the clutch rod, when everything is in position, slave cylinder, and rod, there should be about a 1/16 of an inch play in the rod, you should be able to rattle the clutch arm, but not near enough for the rod to fall out.

Sometimes photos help, but one would have to take the right photo for us to see an issue.

Have you shifted it though all the gears with the engine not running?

[strang3majik]

Clutch looks to be in good shape...I've gave it a good look, and I can see where the throw out bearing rides. The throwout bearing I just removed (a brand new one) even looks like it touched the fingers and worked as it should have.

 

And...as I said, the engine/trans was still together and pulled from a running/driving 620. Qwik and I removed the long trail transmission and set the engine on the trailer, I have never removed the clutch/pressure plate assembly, so, if it was indeed from a running/driving 620, then the clutch/pressure plate are installed correctly. If not I was lied to, which I doubt.

 

And, there is absolutely no play in the slave rod. Its in there very tight.

 

But, let me know what to take photos of and I'll definitely get some.

 

And, yes...I've put it in every gear, goes in smoothly...I've also hit the starter in every gear figuring a higher gear would almost force it to slip...but...naturally, the starter doesn't have enough oomph to spin it over in 5th.

 

 

Also...only pic I have that shows the clutch assembly...

 

[wayno]

Clutch looks to be in good shape...I've gave it a good look, and I can see where the throw out bearing rides. The throwout bearing I just removed (a brand new one) even looks like it touched the fingers and worked as it should have.

 

And...as I said, the engine/trans was still together and pulled from a running/driving 620. Qwik and I removed the long trail transmission and set the engine on the trailer, I have never removed the clutch/pressure plate assembly, so, if it was indeed from a running/driving 620, then the clutch/pressure plate are installed correctly. If not I was lied to, which I doubt.

 

And, there is absolutely no play in the slave rod. Its in there very tight.

 

But, let me know what to take photos of and I'll definitely get some.

 

And, yes...I've put it in every gear, goes in smoothly...I've also hit the starter in every gear figuring a higher gear would almost force it to slip...but...naturally, the starter doesn't have enough oomph to spin it over in 5th.

 

 

Also...only pic I have that shows the clutch assembly...

 

 

 

I think there is something wrong in the photo, I need a closer photo of the clutch fingers that the throwout bearing rides on, they look like they are actually pressed in already, the fingers look like they are almost touching the disc itself, this is not right, I need to see a better photo of this area.

I am sorry, I don't have one out in the open to take a photo of, and I cannot remember how far the fingers are supposed to stick out.

There might not be anything wrong, but I need a better/closer photo of that area from differant angles.

[datsunaholic]

If you've never had the clutch off and it sat any length of time in humid conditions, there's a good chance it's rusted on. I just broke my 520 clutch free after being stuck a year... started it in gear, with the pedal down. Slammed on the brakes. Repeat (after realizing I had no brakes and mowed down my rear gate). Broke free 3rd try.

[banzai510(hainz)]

If this L20 came from a truck then its a 225mm and you need a 620 T/O bearing and carrier.

But I notice that too as Wayno sais the fingers look inward.

But I would think iy would be ez to install the slave as the clutch fork arm you go back toward the rear of vehicle ez

 

best to measure everything with a tapemeasure and show us with a digital camera

[strang3majik]

I thought that too about the fingers, but wasn't sure. They're almost completely flat, not outward (like what I'm used to seeing), but they weren't inward. But, as you said, wouldn't that make everything move more then it should and not really have much of a load on it?

 

But, it is a L20 from a truck and now has the truck throwout bearing, like I said, with the same results as before.

 

Everything keeps making me think that the clutch disc is rusted on...I've never heard of that happening, but, I guess its a possibility. But, I'm going to go out and try breaking it free a few times before I go doing anything extreme, I'm hoping thats all it is. I just don't want to kill the starter in the process.

 

But, Banzai, what should I take pictures of? I'll gladly supply you guys with pics if it would help. As I said, I know I do have the wrong slave rod, but, I believe the one I have is too long...and the rod is for a 510 with the clutch fork with the hole in it. Mine does not have a hole in it, just a dimple. But...as I said, that should not keep it from disengaging, that should do that opposite.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I only suggest the photos in case theres soemthing missing or just not catching Who knows you could have a 240mm clutch in there, but really Im winging this one.

 

example:

Car not idleing,not running right ,Pinging

everybody gives there awnsers.

Takes photo of motor, I see the vac advance on distributor going to intake manifold instead of carb.

Proplem solved.

[strang3majik]

Ok, I'll take some pics and a video of the slave action.

 

Thanks for bearing with me guys...this is all thats keeping me from driving her!!! :/

[strang3majik]

ok...I have just been mind-fucked, excuse my language.

 

When I let the clutch pedal out, I can put it in gear, when I push the clutch pedal in, the car moves as normal...

 

WHY!?!?!!?!

 

In all my years, I have never heard of that...lol

[strang3majik]

Is it possible the rod in the slave is too long and is disengaging the clutch at idle and when I push it, its actually forcing the clutch back into the flywheel?

[strang3majik]

Fixed! Slave cylinder rod was a good inch too long. Grinded down a bolt, rounded off the edge...works great now.

[wayno]

Fixed! Slave cylinder rod was a good inch too long. Grinded down a bolt, rounded off the edge...works great now.

 

Your clutch arm should be slightly loose when you get under the vehicle, as I said before, about a 1/16th of an inch.

If it doesn't have that slack, eventually your throwout bearing will burn up.

What was probably happening was when you pushed in on the clutch, it pushed the fingers into the disk itself causing it to turn, and that was why you couldn't get it in gear.