b3y0ndd34th Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 So I've got my carb all rebuilt and got the car running, but I have to jump it to get it to start, I bought a brand new battery from wal-mart, I know not the best choice in batteries but my yellow top bit the big one and I don't have $180 to throw at a battery at the moment. My battery is not being re-charged, I'd like to know where I should start troubleshooting to make sure I'm getting the right voltage and such, any kind of advice is heavily appreciated! I have a new alternator on it from autozone, I'm going to take it off and have them check it to make sure it's not the alternator, but first I'd like to know what wires to check and such, the car stays running after I jump it till I turn it off, after I turn it off it acts as if it's never had a charge on it at all :( Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 So I've got my carb all rebuilt and got the car running, but I have to jump it to get it to start, I bought a brand new battery from wal-mart, I know not the best choice in batteries but my yellow top bit the big one and I don't have $180 to throw at a battery at the moment. My battery is not being re-charged, I'd like to know where I should start troubleshooting to make sure I'm getting the right voltage and such, any kind of advice is heavily appreciated! I have a new alternator on it from autozone, I'm going to take it off and have them check it to make sure it's not the alternator, but first I'd like to know what wires to check and such, the car stays running after I jump it till I turn it off, after I turn it off it acts as if it's never had a charge on it at all :( I do not know if your year is internally regulated or if it has a voltage regulator, this is for testing one that is not internally regulated. I copied this from a post from ggzilla, this is to test a 1972 datsun 521 with issues also, this is that thread link. http://community.ratsun.net/topic/39189-battery-not-charging/ So too can a wiring problem cause the exact same symptoms. I wouldn't buy yet another new part until I tested it and found out which part is bad. Test the system, it's easy and costs nothing. 1. With engine OFF, key OFF measure voltage at ALTERNATOR A terminal (or BAT terminal) and alternator case. If you get the same voltage as at the battery terminals it's good. If you get lower voltage, you have a wiring problem. 2. Unplug the T-connector and start the engine. Put your Voltmeter on the battery terminals. Jump a wire from alternator BAT to the F terminal of the alternator. If the voltage jumps up, the alternator is working. CAUTION: Don't let the voltage go over 17volts. If the voltage doesn't change, you got a bad alternator (new ones can be bad too). Reconnect the T-connector. 3. If the alternator worked when jumpered, now test the wiring from the regulator. Unplug the voltage regulator and start the engine. In the harness regulator connector jump the White-with-black-stripe wire to Battery +. If the voltage jumps up, thats's good. if it doesn't, the wiring harness is bad somewhere. 4. Check the harness feed wires. The White wire should read 12V when key is OFF. If not, there is a wiring problem somewhere. Between the White wire and the Black wire you should have 12V. If not you have a ground problem. With KEY ON engine OFF, check that White/blue stripe wire has 12V. 5. If all the above checks out, replace the voltage regulator. 1 Quote Link to comment
Boaty Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I would say it is time to upgrade to a Saturn alternator - you'll love it, and if it goes out you can get one practically ANYWHERE that sells alternators. A little more pricey, sub $100 but still. ~93A or so. The Saturn swap is well documented here on Ratsun. It upgrades you to an internally regulated alternator, that is relatively cheap to rebuild, easy to replace, isn't huge, and will give you plenty of power to spare. It fits in the stock location (L-series), is barely bigger than stock, and the wiring is simple as it gets. Buy a pigtail from Napa, plug it in, connect the two wires off the pigtail to the stock alternator harness. Done. For the Voltage Regulator, it's a matter of jumping two wires in the female connector. As for your Optima, before you junk it (if you haven't already), put it on a trickle charger for a few days, or if you have a regular battery charger, put it on 2A overnight. I've seen a lot of Optimas that were pronounced dead at the scene, and were recharged and are currently still in use several years later. Especially Yellow Tops. They are real troopers (and they better be, considering the price). If in the end it still won't take a charge, well it's time to recycle it I suppose. FWIW, my buddy has a Red Top that is going on 7 years old, was in a vehicle crash, was completely dead, that he picked up out of the recycle bin at his old work. It looks like crap, is torn up pretty bad. Holds a charge just as good as a brand new battery, in fact he's putting it into his next rig once it gets on the road. He's the one that showed me how to 'jump' them back into life with the trickle charger. Once it gets a good base charge going, just give it the normal recharge procedure for awhile and it may end up a survivor. Worth a shot, either way right? 1 Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sweet thanks for the tip I'll put it on my grandpa's charger!!! I'll start testing first thing in the morning, it's cold as sin tonight and it's dark already -.- Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 ck the alternator under a load. not just spinning it up to get 14 volts. clean and or replace the ignition fuse. Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 For the Alternator swap, is the wiring the same as the 510 in this post? http://community.ratsun.net/topic/7830-saturn-alternator-how-to-wire-in/page__p__100953__hl__%2Bsaturn+%2Balternator__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=100953 Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'd rather have a great battery than a smaller alternator. If you can't afford a good battery, save your money on the alternator. If it turns out to be just a wiring problem (is your CHG light on the dash burnt out?) then you just saved $100. Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 CHG light is not burned out and that set is not hooked up it seems that the previous owner did a number to the heater box and some other stuff under the dash when he installed some autozone tach near the shifter :( Did some troubleshooting, car dies the SECOND I remove positive battery cable from the battery terminal, previous experience tells me this is am alternator issue. I'm trying to find my multimeter so I can do some real tests :( Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 still can't find my multimeter, time to buy a new one I guess lol. I took the alternator off today and had it checked by a shop, not the alternator, she's doing what she's suppose to! Going to Fallow Wayno's Walkthru :D Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Had my alternator checked, it checked out okay, I took it to a real shop instead of autozone, they seem to think I need to buy a new part every time I enter the door. And I had the battery charged and tested, the battery is fine. I will begin troubleshooting but MY battery will not stay charged and my fusable links seem to keep going out... the ones connected to the battery :( Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Okay, Started Troubleshooting today after I got my battery charged again. Voltage at battery terminal and Case/Batt cable of alternator were the same. Where would my voltage regulator be located so I can test it aswell? Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 You don't need a millimeter to test this, just a voltmeter. A multi-meter will also work. Follow these steps: Test the system, it's easy and costs nothing. 1. With engine OFF, key OFF measure voltage at ALTERNATOR A terminal (or BAT terminal) and alternator case. If you get the same voltage as at the battery terminals it's good. If you get lower voltage, you have a wiring problem. 2. Unplug the T-connector and start the engine. Put your Voltmeter on the battery terminals. Jump a wire from alternator BAT to the F terminal of the alternator. If the voltage jumps up, the alternator is working. CAUTION: Don't let the voltage go over 17volts. If the voltage doesn't change, you got a bad alternator (new ones can be bad too). Reconnect the T-connector. 3. If the alternator worked when jumpered, now test the wiring from the regulator. Unplug the voltage regulator and start the engine. In the harness regulator connector jump the White-with-black-stripe wire to Battery +. If the voltage jumps up, thats's good. if it doesn't, the wiring harness is bad somewhere. 4. Check the harness feed wires. The White wire should read 12V when key is OFF. If not, there is a wiring problem somewhere. Between the White wire and the Black wire you should have 12V. If not you have a ground problem. With KEY ON engine OFF, check that White/blue stripe wire has 12V. 5. If all the above checks out, replace the voltage regulator. Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Tested this again today, stupid shop still doesn't have my new alternator done -.- I verified everything is hooked up correctly "1. With engine OFF, key OFF measure voltage at ALTERNATOR A terminal (or BAT terminal) and alternator case. If you get the same voltage as at the battery terminals it's good. If you get lower voltage, you have a wiring problem. 2. Unplug the T-connector and start the engine. Put your Voltmeter on the battery terminals. Jump a wire from alternator BAT to the F terminal of the alternator. If the voltage jumps up, the alternator is working. CAUTION: Don't let the voltage go over 17volts. If the voltage doesn't change, you got a bad alternator (new ones can be bad too). " 1. Voltage is the SAME 2. Voltage goes up went slightly higher than 17 volts but no higher than 18 and I reconnected the terminals. please, I've hunted all over... WHERE is my voltage regulator so I can test it :( Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Well from the factory, the 610 came with a voltage regulator bolted to the fender, inside the black boxy thing. Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 there's some other stuff on the back of that black box I'll take it off and take a pic Quote Link to comment
260zkaboom Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I noticed in post #8 that "CHG light is not burned out and that set is not hooked", could be your problem. When you turn the key on to start, it sends voltage through the bulb, and energizes the alternator to charge, when the alternator spins the light should go out. So check to see the light at least works in the on position of the key before cranking. Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I thought the chg light was on the dash with the fasten seat belt light, it's not it's in the dash above the oil light and it has been replaced as per your request but the light does not illuminate with the key in any position, however changing the bulb did help with a minor drain. Quote Link to comment
metalmonkey47 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 As for your Optima, before you junk it (if you haven't already), put it on a trickle charger for a few days, or if you have a regular battery charger, put it on 2A overnight. I've seen a lot of Optimas that were pronounced dead at the scene, and were recharged and are currently still in use several years later. Especially Yellow Tops. They are real troopers (and they better be, considering the price). If in the end it still won't take a charge, well it's time to recycle it I suppose. FWIW, my buddy has a Red Top that is going on 7 years old, was in a vehicle crash, was completely dead, that he picked up out of the recycle bin at his old work. It looks like crap, is torn up pretty bad. Holds a charge just as good as a brand new battery, in fact he's putting it into his next rig once it gets on the road. He's the one that showed me how to 'jump' them back into life with the trickle charger. Once it gets a good base charge going, just give it the normal recharge procedure for awhile and it may end up a survivor. Worth a shot, either way right? ^I second that. I've had Optima's come back to my Autozone all time time. We put it on a 2A charge for a few hours and load test it. Never seen one fail. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 the light does not illuminate with the key in any position There's your problem. Probably in the wiring. Maybe the fuse is burnt out. With key ON, engine OFF, the CHG and OIL lights should come on. If they don't you got a problem. 1 Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 There's your problem. Probably in the wiring. Maybe the fuse is burnt out. With key ON, engine OFF, the CHG and OIL lights should come on. If they don't you got a problem. I will get right on that thank you for the lead! Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 My alternator has the T connector all hacked up and spade connectors on the end. one is Yellow, the other is Yellow with Black stripe, maybe it's white I can't really tell it's dirty as all can get out but I know it has a black stripe. I have F and N Terminals on the alternator Marked for my T connector, would anyone happen to know which one actually goes where? Also any idea which wire on the back of the gauge cluster leads to the CHG light? Can I take the cluster out and trace the wire position leading to the bulb trace on the board itself? I don't have access to a Chiltons. I normally access online through an e library but all they have is a repair manual which is very vague and generalized, I want the service manual... if someone could point me to a pm with a pdf that'd be cool too... I checked all fuses I could find, two inline fuses one on the driver side under the dash and another on the passenger side under the dash as well as the fuse panel, all fuses test good. Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 found a bunch of wiring diagrams here if anyone else needs them 1962-1982 Datsun Wiring Diagrams If I could find that stupid Voltage Regulator I'm sure there's a problem leading to or away from it... it may even be bad I don't know :( can't find it to test it Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 any idea which wire on the back of the gauge cluster leads to the CHG light? Just go under the hood, and find the White/Blue wire on the voltage regulator. If you ground it, the light should come on (with IGN on). This will tell you if the wiring and lamp are OK. See Alternator Wiring I have F and N Terminals on the alternator That's the kind of alternator that uses an external regulator. The newer ones (starting from 1978) are marked S & L (internally regulated). Hitachi LT-series uses the typical 1970s Hitachi T-shaped connector: F Field - stem of Tee N Nuetral point - head of Tee Quote Link to comment
b3y0ndd34th Posted February 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 My Field and Neutral are connected correctly as per this diagram, and the ones I provided earlier. The problem with testing the voltage regulator and grounding the wire is... I can not find the physical location of my voltage regulator... to me it looks like the four wire piece on the back of that black box behind my fusible links to the top right but it only has 4 wires, even the replacements I find have 6 wires... this is what confuses me, other than I need to get my hands on a chiltons. :D I use this diagram http://downloads.bus..._Datsun_610.pdf there is no White/blue on what I THINK is my regulator. I have White/Red, Black/White, and White/Black according to the diagram. Instead of telling me wire colors can you tell me which terminal on the regulator? P.S. and where the regulator is :D Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 It is the "L" terminal on the voltage regulator - for Lamp. Quote Link to comment
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