B25's 2dr 510 Part2: "common sense strikes back"

[B25]

just got out of the garage.

figured out the chain install, and tried to get it in the ballpark of TDC..

..and then ran into another problem.

 

how exact does TDC need to be, and how can I figure out if Im there without a distributor and without taking the head off?

I stuck an allen wrench in spark plug hole #1 and I got it to where the piston is pretty far up, but I have no way of being exact within more than 1/4 of an inch, and

Im still uncertain then.

also,

do the cams need to be in any particular place in their cycle? I just threw them on wherever they were when I pulled them off the car at Pick n Pull.

 

thanks!!

[Boaty]

I believe that the front most lobes will be opposing each other at TDC. Meaning intakes & exhausts will be closed for cylinder #1.

Screwdriver in the hole works alright, either it goes up or it goes down. When it crests at it's top most point, then you're at TDC.

 

FWIW, I believe on a twin-cam, TDC is on the second (from the left) timing mark aligned with the timing pin. At least that's how I understand it.

[H5WAGON]

Super easy, just did mine today...front cover on!

 

Dowel keys will be pointing up......on cam and crank shaft. Dot on cam sprocket and lower crank sprocket line up with odd color links on chain.

 

Test fit front cover....2nd mark over from the left on the pulley is TDC or 0 it will line up with the little pointer on the cover.

[Boaty]

There are a lot of video's on KA's available on Youtube. Search around, you're bound to find some insight.

 

After it's all together and such, freespin the rotating assembly. If you go all the way around fine, then you're not hitting any valves. It's pretty straightforward though, you'll figure it out.

As I said.. youtube!!

[B25]

Super easy, just did mine today...front cover on!

 

Dowel keys will be pointing up......on cam and crank shaft. Dot on cam sprocket and lower crank sprocket line up with odd color links on chain.

 

Test fit front cover....2nd mark over from the left on the pulley is TDC or 0 it will line up with the little pointer on the cover.

 

I just realized that you took a picture of the pistons in the block after we took the head off.

so all I need to do is line the pistons on MY block up like they were on the donor engine, and the cam should go on in the right cycle.

 

would that work?

[H5WAGON]

Do you see the dot at the 3 o'clock position on the cam sprocket?

 

Crank sprocket, the dot is about 5 o'clock

 

Take a picture of what you have if you can.....:unsure:

[B25]

so I think I got it figured out

 

I spent a couple hours with it, and ended up doing it like this:

1) set head on block with head gasket and lightly thread the head bolts

2) take off front pulley and front cover and chain guide.

3) rotate crank to a setting where all head valves can move (e.g. the head can complete an unhindered cycle)

4) attach cam gear and tighten down. then rotate cam until the gear pin is facing straight up

5) lighlty attatch front cover and pulley and find TDC

6) take off front cover and match chain up to the markers on the cam gear and crank gear

7) take off cam gear and attach chain to loose gear

8) reinstall cam gear so chain is on correctly

- STOP -

this is where I ran into trouble.

whenever I tried to put the cam gear back on the cam, it would throw the crank off TDC. I tried holding the crank at TDC with a spare bolt stuck through the

pulley hole, which seemed to work, but when I took out the bolt, the crank rotated off of TDC just beyond the first notch from the left on the pulley ...more on that later

-RESUME-

9) slip guide on under chain and tighten down

10) bolt everything back up and test the cycle...

 

thats how I did it, and I successfully completed a few cycles of the engine BUT

It took about 60% of my strength just to do that.

I had both hands on the outside of the crank pulley wheel and I was turning pretty hard to make it rotate...

is that much resistance normal?

I was afraid I got the timing off and was using all that energy forcing valves...

on the other hand I feel like it just wouldnt even turn over if the valves were in the way.

on the other other hand maybe the valves were only Slightly in the way, and they were grinding on the pistons causing it to be difficult to turn.

hmm...

I would believe it if it was just hard to turn over an engine, but I thought I would make sure.

 

keep in mind I was turning it by gripping the outside of the pulley wheel so I didnt have great leverage to being with.

 

Please help!!

 

Thanks!!

 

I would post pics but there isnt much to take pics of...

[Laecaon]

I would have set the head and block to TDC before the 2 met, like when they were separate. Then install the chain. You made no mention of setting the head itself to TDC.

[yello620]

Wow

[B25]

I would have set the head and block to TDC before the 2 met, like when they were separate. Then install the chain. You made no mention of setting the head itself to TDC.

 

I said I set it up so the cam gear pin was facing straight up. I thought that was TDC, is there something else i have to do?

[H5WAGON]

Steps 4-8....If #1 cylinder is at TDC and the dots on the sprockets line up to links on chain, you did it!

[B25]

FINALLY figured it out..

 

 

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it cycles almost effortlessly now.

 

I have a new question though!! this one is obscure.

 

I used Gunk spray to clean my engine of oil, etc. this spray is meant to clean off an engine while it is in the car, and then to be

rinsed with water.

I used it on an un-sealed engine outside of a car, and it got all over the cams (by accident)

should I spray the cams down with a hose before I seal up the engine?

I feel like theoretically if there is any Gunk on them, they will resist the oil and proceed to overheat.

thats just my extremely rudimentary knowledge of overhead cams though.

 

thoughts?!

 

I am preparing to ride the bicycle to Harbor Freight to get a ft lbs torque wrench, as I accidentaly bought a inch lbs one,

and then I will begin assembling everything i have of the engine.

 

stay tuned...

[dennis]

I would rinse it then coat it with some oil. Then when you get it running give it another oil change after a 10 - 20 miles. If you oil thins out then you still have some in the engine and you will have to repeat. Or you can use some ATF to clean it out and then redo the oil change. Just remember that oil displaces water.

[B25]

 

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following the correct pattern, and using a torque plan of 22-50-loose-40-60 (ft lbs) I have snapped a head bolt. the #1 head bolt.

I quickly loosened all of them to prevent warping and I'll try and get the fragment out in a bit.

 

Im not sure why it happened but it worries me...

[Laecaon]

Are KA bolts supposed to be reuseable? Did you clean out the threads?

[B25]

all the bolts were new stock bolts. I greased the threads with 3-in-1 but I did not cleaning. that could have been it..

[Laecaon]

all the bolts were new stock bolts. I greased the threads with 3-in-1 but I did not cleaning. that could have been it..

 

Heard odd things about greasing bolts... I would only do that if the manuals say that. And my understanding is that you are supposed to run a tap through the holes to clean it out. Especially do this on a short block you bought.

[B25]

Heard odd things about greasing bolts... I would only do that if the manuals say that. And my understanding is that you are supposed to run a tap through the holes to clean it out. Especially do this on a short block you bought.

 

ah ok thanks for the tip!

 

 

Im debating wether or not to kill myself to avoid taking the head back off tomorrow.

 

stay tuned...

[B25]

couldnt find the adjustable wrench so I decided to belay taking off the head

and focused on doing a second coat of flat black on the car

it looks great beyond 15 ft. when you get within 10 ft. of the car it starts looking awful.

The plan is a professional gloss black next summer.

for now...

 

 

[Laecaon]

Well at least it is one color.

[H5WAGON]

Here is a link with stuff on KA24e head bolts, I'm with the guy that says....40, then 60...Done.(Post 6)

 

 

 

KA24e Head bolt torque from the 240sxForums

 

Chasing the threads with a Tap is a must.......On L motors I have re-used head bolts, some say yes, some say no...:unsure:

[Laecaon]

Here is a link with stuff on KA24e head bolts, I'm with the guy that says....40, then 60...Done.(Post 6)

 

 

 

KA24e Head bolt torque from the 240sxForums

 

Chasing the threads with a Tap is a must.......On L motors I have re-used head bolts, some say yes, some say no...:unsure:

 

I know of L bolts being reusable, I have done it and seen it done, but Have no Idea about KA's. I know all VW's use stretch bolts and are 1 time use.

 

Some reading says that KA head bolts should only be used 1 time. They are called TTY (Torque to Yield). I wouldnt trust reusing them.

[B25]

UPDATE:

 

I found a cool trick on a ford diesel forum,

you take a chisel and drive a slit into the top of the bolt in the block

then you can turn it out with a flathead screwdriver.

 

worked perfectly, and I got the head gasket in and torqued the head down perfect.

I was very happy.

 

then, I tried to put the front cover and it wouldn't go on because the head was torqued down.

 

QUESTION:

while trying to put the front cover on I tore up the front of my head gasket.

the part betwean the block and heads is fine, but the part above the front cover is fucked.

can I just use rtv betwean the front cover and head?

or do I have to buy a new headgasket?

 

 

thanks!!

 

I am at school.

pics later tonight.

[bananahamuck]

If you crunched it , you could cut the end off your old head gasket and use that with silicone . If you let silicone set up till almost rubbery it wont goober out as much...And use it sparingly or it makes more of a mess than you have now.

 

Seen it , done it, not that uncommon for a new guy at all.

[B25]

If you crunched it , you could cut the end off your old head gasket and use that with silicone . If you let silicone set up till almost rubbery it wont goober out as much...And use it sparingly or it makes more of a mess than you have now.

 

Seen it , done it, not that uncommon for a new guy at all.

 

Thanks Banana!

Heading out to the garage now...