air strut questions

[Zfighter76]

i am contemplating purchasing air shocks for my 620, but i need to ask some questions first

-can i remove the front torsions when putting adjustable air shock on the front? i will have it up maybe 3 inches most of the time

-can i make a solid half leaf spring sort of trailing arm to bolt the rear axle to and use the stock shock mounting positions or do i have to make the air struts straight up and down? and would i need that panhard bar if i made it a trailing arm rear end?

-would the ride be comfy on air shocks? i know air bags have a nice ride but ive never heard about shocks

-how do i size them? do i look for shocks of the same length fully extended as the stock struts at full extension or do i measure them in some other way?

 

thanks, any help will be appreciated

[Zfighter76]

air strut sorry

[ggzilla]

What's an air strut?

[datzenmike]

Not sure if you should put the full weight of the front end on air shocks alone. I would think a coil over type would be better if removing the T bars.

 

The rear works just fine as it is, why try to re-invent the rear suspension? You can soften or firm the ride by removing/adding leaves. Blocks to lower, maybe air shocks to fine tune the ride height and if carrying a heavy load.

[Farmer Joe]

no no no...

 

i dont mean to sound like an asshole, but not a good idea.

 

do it the right way... if your gonna have airshocks on the front, youll need to keep the torsions... the airshock alone will hold the vehicle up, but youll maybe only get an inch or 2 of lift... this will have the shocks maxxed out, and youll have a shitty ride... not to mention if you break the upper shock mount in the process...

 

secondly, the rear suspension....

 

do not cut the stock leafs in half.. thats a fuck up waiting to happen. do it right and make a real 2 link or just 4 link it like it supposed to be if your gonna make it low...

 

do some research on the subject... learn all that you can..

[Zfighter76]

Not sure if you should put the full weight of the front end on air shocks alone. I would think a coil over type would be better if removing the T bars.

 

The rear works just fine as it is, why try to re-invent the rear suspension? You can soften or firm the ride by removing/adding leaves. Blocks to lower, maybe air shocks to fine tune the ride height and if carrying a heavy load.

is it safe to remove springs? i still want a somewhat normal ride, i dont like to bounce aimlessly down the road. and so i can place air shocks in the place of the original and it will work too?

[Zfighter76]

no no no...

 

i dont mean to sound like an asshole, but not a good idea.

 

do it the right way... if your gonna have airshocks on the front, youll need to keep the torsions... the airshock alone will hold the vehicle up, but youll maybe only get an inch or 2 of lift... this will have the shocks maxxed out, and youll have a shitty ride... not to mention if you break the upper shock mount in the process...

 

secondly, the rear suspension....

 

do not cut the stock leafs in half.. thats a fuck up waiting to happen. do it right and make a real 2 link or just 4 link it like it supposed to be if your gonna make it low...

 

do some research on the subject... learn all that you can..

i didnt mean cut the springs in half, i meant make something that would read from the front leaf mount to the axle, like square tubing or something like that. that would be a two link right? what it the point of a four link? just extra stability? or does it allow the axle to move on a vertical plane better? i know about how suspension geometry works and im not a complete bonehead (who in the world would cut leaf springs) haha bu im just asking because ive never toyed with air shocks or air bags

[Zfighter76]

What's an air strut?

like an air shock????? its basically the absorber which can be adjusted with air like an air bag, but bolts into the stock position.

[Zfighter76]

my friend had air shocks on the front of his bug which would lift it maybe four inches off the ground, definately more than two, but that was a bug, no weight in the front end. it ran decently as long as it wasnt lifted to the max. and he could lay it down to where the nose touched the ground.

[Big Schlink]

The top links in a 4-link prevent axle wrap. Their is a big difference between an air strut and an air shock. An air shock is just an adjustable capacity shock typically for load leveling or rebound tuning. An air strut is supportive like airbags, leafsprings, or torsion bars. You could use an air strut to replace the torsion bars just like myself and others have done with coilovers or air bags. Air struts most likely would NOT be a bolt on replacement for the torsion bars.

[Zfighter76]

so an air strut would allow me to remove my torsions? and what about the rear leafs? could i make a 4 link setup and use air struts? and what exaclt is meant by axle wrap? how would i convert the front to use air struts it i wanted to? you said they wouldnt bolt right on correct?

[datzenmike]

is it safe to remove springs? i still want a somewhat normal ride, i dont like to bounce aimlessly down the road. and so i can place air shocks in the place of the original and it will work too?

 

I've seen some idiots run a single leaf, now that's totally fucked. You can remove one but I like a firm ride. Removing leaves to lower is also just wrong thinking. Having the leaves re-arched preserves the spring rate which you will need on a lowered truck because of less ground clearance. Weak springs and less clearance is very stupid.

[Big Schlink]

Axle wrap is when the axle rotates around it horizontal axis due to acceleration. the pinion wants to climb the ring gear at first which translates into the axle housing rotating (wrapping) around the axles. By supporting the axle above and below the mid-line of the axle tubes it helps counter act axle wrap. Instead of a rotational motion it becomes linear and forces the axle to plant down into the ground.

 

As far as install look at one of the many bagged trucks on here and you will be doing what they did except instead of bags you would have air struts. If you are going to do all that work I would stick with the bags they tend to be cheaper than struts. If you are going to do this use some sort of link setup in the rear like Datzenmike was saying its wrong thinking and dangerous. when you remove leafs from a leafspring their carrying capacity goes down. if you compensate with an airbag, when you cycle up and down work hardening can occur and the remaining leafs can snap.

 

You will need either a panhard bar or a triangulated 4link in the rear. A traditional 4link only locates the axle for to aft not side to side, the same thing with quarter eliptical leaf springs. A panhard bar locates the axle side to side.

 

I have to much car info in my head.

[Zfighter76]

if you can explain an elliptical leaf spring i would be glad to squeeze some more of that knowlege from you haha. and how would it be if i ran a square tubing piece on a heim joint coming from the stock front leaf mount area abd mounted the axle on that how it would mount to the leaf, and then build some sort of tower and weld tabe on the axle housing. then i could run more tubing with heim joints from that tower to the axle housing. and run a panhard bar along with all of those, how would that be. i was thinking about even getting a coilover setup instead of air suspension. if i did that would i mount the shocks vertical or at an angle like thge stock struts? thanks for the info btw

[Big Schlink]

(One of the many basic shapes)

 

Elliptical leaf spring

(Used on wagons and some turn of the century cars)

 

Semi-elliptical leaf spring

(seen on most trucks today)

 

Quarter-elleptical leaf spring

(mainly on extreme 4x4s and hot rods)

[Big Schlink]

Here is a good example of a fellow Ratsuners 620: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/6208-project-kaoss-bagged-and-bodied-620/

Study, emulate, try to improve upon.

 

 

[Big Schlink]

Are the pics showing up?

[Zfighter76]

yeah, thanks alot. can i mount ellipticals onto my truck? im actually looking to make my truck handle well. i was thinking maybe air struts would work but i guess i never thought about coilovers at all haha. what would be the best way for me to make my truck handle well? maybe find some civic coilovers to put in place of the original struts and then make a 2 link with a panhard rod? and i could do that conversion for front coilovers that that other member on here sells right?

[Rjawm]

Just for clarification.

 

This is an air shock:

 

Air shocks were used in the late 80's and early 90's as an easy 'adjustable' suspension until the failure rate, safety issues, and the ease of full bag suspensions killed them. Back then the Rancho 9000 series was the more popular choice due to the in cab adjustability they had.

 

 

This is an air strut (essentially a coilover with a sleeved bag in place of the coil spring):

 

 

This is an air bag (the most common type of air suspension swapped into vehicles anymore):

 

 

And this is the closest 'off the shelf' item comparable to what you are describing you want for front suspension:

 

 

The last one is known as the "ShockWave" made by RideTech. Great idea, if you have plenty of money to spend.

 

http://www.ridetech....k/shockwaves-t/

[Zfighter76]

i guess i was referring to the air shock then, like what people put on their caddys to make it ride smooth and low or high and stiff. my autoshop teacher has just some cheapo ones like 40$ a piece and they just smooth out the ride he says. they look like gas adjusts with little black bags popping out

[Big Schlink]

There are also air cylinders that are like hydraulics but use air instead. Thats what I had in mind if you were gonna try a close to bolt on setup. So for the stuff I was saying at first replace strut with air cylinder. Unfortunately air cylinders don't handle very well. Their is a lot to designing performance handling and I am no pro, yet. The basics, if you want to make your truck handle you want a low center of gravity, equal weight distribution to all 4 tires (counteracting body roll), as well as a large contact patch in relation to road conditions and tunability. People work there whole lives pursuing performance handling so it really is beyond the scope of one thread. What I am doing is coil overs at all corners using Beebanis brackets in the front and a custom 4-link in the rear and 4 way disc brakes.

[Laecaon]

Air shocks are just that, shocks. They replace the shock absorber and the shock absorber only. It does not replace the leaf springs or the tension rods.

[Zfighter76]

how much does the beebanis brackets cost? and shocks? i was considering those but i didnt see a price when i saw it. and i was going to try and bolt on my 280z rear drums on, not sure if the diameter is the same but i think maybe tomorrow ill try just for kickcs. if it fits than ill go and find another set of rears from the junkyard, and then i can run 4 lugs on the truck haha. and use my ansens ;) if anybody knows if this works, pleaase dont spoil it for me because i'd rather have something to do. i hate having nothing to do to my car haha. a waste of time isnt to me because any time i spend working on the car isnt a waste to me :D

[datzenmike]

This should prove interesting.....

[Zfighter76]

haha, what? 280z aluminum drums all around? :P if it works i think itd be cool. i see how the rears may not work but seeing as how the front is a spindle setup, i think it may fit there haha