d510addict Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 So I recently put a rebuilt l20b into my truck and am having issues with it already. It is running warmer than my l16 which is what I expected, but what I did nto expect is it not holding water. Today I went to the grocery store as pulled into my spot my radiator puked out all its water, or what remained of it. At first I thought that the radiator cracked, but then I noticed it is dumping out of the overflow tube. I put about half a gallon of water into it and nothing it leaking out now but still is running rather warm. I am also having a dieseling problem, and to top it off the truck is smoking quite badly after not smoking much at all after the first few times I drove it. So I have a few questions. Seeing how my all knowing father decided he was right and I was wrong on just about everything which led to A LOT of issues during the install I was thinking he probably screwed something else up. I want to know about how long does it take to seat the rings? as well as how should one drive to do so? What would happen of rings were too small for the bore or possibly too large and not gaped properly? I am super frustrated with this and am scared to drive it until things are figured out but I need to figure out my problems soon as I need access to a car. Oh I almost forgot, for the rebuild the block was tanked, magnafluxed, line bored, bored .030 over, the deck was cleaned up a bit as the block was sitting out and had a pretty poor surface. New bearings, new pistons and rings, crank was polished and balanced with the flywheel. The head is an A87 that has been shaved/surfaced for a total of around .030 (not by me) has an l20b cam in it. Took it to ricks cylinder head to have it checked out and it checked out good. Put a new timing set in it and put it together with lots of assembly lube. Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 What thermostat housing are you running? I am not talking about the cover, I am talking about the housing that bolts to the side of the head. Is there a little hose coming out of the front of it going to the line that goes from the water pump outlet/inlet on the pass. side of the engine to the intake manifold water inlet, there would be a tee at the front of the head in that line. Quote Link to comment
datsunrides Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Water puking- Maybe air pocket? Dieseling- Timing or idle too high? Smoke- What color? Rings- What kind? Different rings have different seat times, cast being quickest and chrome being slowest. Moly is inbetween. Kinda sounding like a head gasket problem........... Mark Quote Link to comment
d510addict Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Wayno, The housing I am using has a outlet on the side opposite of where it connects to the head and has a hose running from it into the intake water line. Datsunrides, I would hope it is not a head gasket thing, was really careful about torquing it down then loosening and retorquing (all done to spec). The smoke is on the whiter side (def not black) more like a grey/white and is worse on take off and hard acceleration at speed. Now it does seem to be idling a bit high but its mainly due to having a 2 barrel holley meant for a v8 on there. I have a holley 5200 which is a weber 32/36 copy but I need help setting it up as I'm not sure what goes where and how to tune it (although I'm reading up in the stickey). As for the rings I do know that one of the larger thicker rings had a chrome face but do not know overall what they are made out of. On a side note I have read that having a carb that dumps too much fuel into the chambers will cause the motor to smoke which maybe could be the problem but I don't know. All know father seems to think that the motor is running lean which seems almost impossible considering the jet size and nature of a non progressive 2300 cfm holley which is also why it may be idling high as the thing cant be tuned properly. Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Here's what Wayno is taking about... Notice the housing? The hose hanging down (was) goes to the intake manifold....not really needed. I eliminated it.....my engine does not overheat The other hose goes to the..."water pump outlet/inlet on the pass. side of the engine"... That is the bypass....eliminates any possible air lock. Dieseling is from....advanced timing, hot engine and high idle What is your thermostat rated at?......functional? Quote Link to comment
d510addict Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Sealik, Ya my housing is similar to that but the outlet that you have that T hooked to is on the dizzy side of my housing. You say it can be eliminated? I have the stock metal piping on my motor and am running a rubber hose from the housing to the intake mani water line. It is kind of kinked (still getting water through but not as well as it should) but if it can be eliminated I would rather do that to save myself the eyesore. My thermo is new but I didnt actually check the rating, I just asked for a thermo for the motor. But I should say that it was purchased for my l16 and was on the l16 for a short period before I put the l20b in. Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I eliminated my line to the IM because I have a U67 head.....with no water passages in the head that match to the IM. Kinda like a dead end for coolant flow. Leave yours then???? Maybe you got a 'winter' thermostat? Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 You need that hose coming off the thremostat housing to work properly, i used a L16 housing that didn't have that hose, the engine temp. was uncontrolable, it would run fine and then start to overheat for no reason, i have been told that the hose function is to help the thremostat to open properly, if the hose is kinked? My new LZ23 was actually over heating before the gauge even got to the 3/4 mark. Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Also of note....the jigger in the thermostat...always is positioned away from the engine. That is the highest point.....air 'doesn't' get trapped, the bypass hose also helps Quote Link to comment
d510addict Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I would take pics if I could get my camera on my phone to work but it doesnt want to work right now. I will let my car cool down more so I do not burn myself and try and do something about the hose that is slightly kinked and double check positioning of the "jigger" on my thermo. Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I would take pics if I could get my camera on my phone to work but it doesnt want to work right now. I will let my car cool down more so I do not burn myself and try and do something about the hose that is slightly kinked and double check positioning of the "jigger" on my thermo. Check it's rating also....hot down there? Quote Link to comment
d510addict Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 How do I check rating? printed on the thermo? If by "how hot down there?" you mean in portland it is about 90 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I was told by someone(datzenmike?) on this forum that you can eliminate that hose if you drill a hole in the thermostat itself, on the side I expect, this allows a sample of the water to get by, so that the thermostat can get warmed up on both sides, that is what the hose does/is for. Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 How do I check rating? printed on the thermo? If by "how hot down there?" you mean in portland it is about 90 Should be stamped on it. You are 'down there'....because....I am up here......north.... :lol: Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Check it's rating also....hot down there? My house was 98 degrees a while ago, it's 95 now, I am waiting till it gets down to 90, then I will be removing my intake and exhaust manifolds(LZ23) and replace the exhaust with a stocl L16 mani as the header just gave up yesterday, it's really loud. Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I was told by someone(datzenmike?) on this forum that you can eliminate that hose if you drill a hole in the thermostat itself, on the side I expect, this allows a sample of the water to get by, so that the thermostat can get warmed up on both sides, that is what the hose does/is for. Yup....you can, although the thermostat already has a hole ....jigger. But..you are correct..if you don't have that connection on the side of the TC cover to run the bypass...drill another hole :) The hole is so air doesn't get trapped. Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 My house was 98 degrees a while ago, it's 95 now, I am waiting till it gets down to 90, then I will be removing my intake and exhaust manifolds(LZ23) and replace the exhaust with a stocl L16 mani as the header just gave up yesterday, it's really loud. It's 100 outside....70 inside. Gotta love air conditioning... :D LZ23 you say...? I feel like smashing mine with a large metric wrench. Sorry.....the machinist that is..... :D Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 It's 100 outside....70 inside. Gotta love air conditioning... :D LZ23 you say...? I feel like smashing mine with a large metric wrench. Sorry.....the machinist that is..... :D I am not a happy person right now, I moved the truck in the driveway to get ready to remove the intake exhaust to replace the header and looked in the radiator to see if there was antifreeze in the engine yet, no water at all, I pulled the dipstick, water in the oil on my new LZ23, CRAP. Quote Link to comment
d510addict Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 It's 100 outside....70 inside. Gotta love air conditioning... :D LZ23 you say...? I feel like smashing mine with a large metric wrench. Sorry.....the machinist that is..... :D I live in a house with alot of windows all facing the sun in the hottest part of the day, do not have AC, and am sitting in a sticky leather computer chair. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 So I recently put a rebuilt l20b into my truck and am having issues with it already. It is running warmer than my l16 which is what I expected, but what I did nto expect is it not holding water. Today I went to the grocery store as pulled into my spot my radiator puked out all its water, or what remained of it. At first I thought that the radiator cracked, but then I noticed it is dumping out of the overflow tube. I put about half a gallon of water into it and nothing it leaking out now but still is running rather warm. I am also having a dieseling problem, and to top it off the truck is smoking quite badly after not smoking much at all after the first few times I drove it. So I have a few questions. Seeing how my all knowing father decided he was right and I was wrong on just about everything which led to A LOT of issues during the install I was thinking he probably screwed something else up. I want to know about how long does it take to seat the rings? as well as how should one drive to do so? What would happen of rings were too small for the bore or possibly too large and not gaped properly? I am super frustrated with this and am scared to drive it until things are figured out but I need to figure out my problems soon as I need access to a car. Oh I almost forgot, for the rebuild the block was tanked, magnafluxed, line bored, bored .030 over, the deck was cleaned up a bit as the block was sitting out and had a pretty poor surface. New bearings, new pistons and rings, crank was polished and balanced with the flywheel. The head is an A87 that has been shaved/surfaced for a total of around .030 (not by me) has an l20b cam in it. Took it to ricks cylinder head to have it checked out and it checked out good. Put a new timing set in it and put it together with lots of assembly lube. Need more info. On the rebuild, who did the rebuild? Professional shop or bought unknown? Have the cylinders been bored and new pistons installed or is it old pistons, bottle-brushed cylinders and new rings? If bored, the machine shop who did the work will have a break-in procedure. Follow it. If not bored, it doesn't matter nearly as much, hopefully they bottle-brushed the cylinders before the new rings went in. The machine shop who does my motors recommends 0-70 as hard as you can, then letting engine compression brake all the way down to near zero, doing that about 7 cycles, then drive normally. I followed their advice on the KAZ24 and haven't had issue one with the rebuild, short of the fuel pump which doesn't count. The hose that goes to your intake manifold should be used. It keeps the carburetor/intake manifold at a more even temperature. It's not absolutely necessary, but for your application would certainly not hurt, and may even help. I'd check your thermostat too, make sure someone didn't put it in backwards (can't really fit it upside down on an L motor, but some you can) Either way, may just be too low a poundage for the system, maybe the wrong cap, or just failed. Quote Link to comment
.sunlover Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 The weber will diesel your engine just because it doesn't have a fuel shutoff valve, I imagine if the holley doesn't either, it's just something you'll have to deal with. My webered l20b 521 diesels sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't. Not every datsun with a no shutoff valve setup will diesel, but just put it in gear when you shut it down, and pop the clutch when its off. my 79 did the same thing. since all is new insideyours, i'd bet you're seeing fuel smoke. I put in a lean/rich sensor to see what my carb needs for jets, you might try that. Mine gets a bit hot too. Quote Link to comment
d510addict Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Need more info. On the rebuild, who did the rebuild? Professional shop or bought unknown? Have the cylinders been bored and new pistons installed or is it old pistons, bottle-brushed cylinders and new rings? If bored, the machine shop who did the work will have a break-in procedure. Follow it. If not bored, it doesn't matter nearly as much, hopefully they bottle-brushed the cylinders before the new rings went in. The machine shop who does my motors recommends 0-70 as hard as you can, then letting engine compression brake all the way down to near zero, doing that about 7 cycles, then drive normally. I followed their advice on the KAZ24 and haven't had issue one with the rebuild, short of the fuel pump which doesn't count. The hose that goes to your intake manifold should be used. It keeps the carburetor/intake manifold at a more even temperature. It's not absolutely necessary, but for your application would certainly not hurt, and may even help. I'd check your thermostat too, make sure someone didn't put it in backwards (can't really fit it upside down on an L motor, but some you can) Either way, may just be too low a poundage for the system, maybe the wrong cap, or just failed. The machining was done by Roy Paolo, who is pretty well known amongst the Portland muscle car scene. Pretty much anyone who cruised Portland in the 60's and 70's knows him, he bored the cylinders to match the pistons (new pistons). I'll give him a call Monday to see if he has break in procedures for his work. I replaced the kinked hose with a longer hose so there is no kink, def a temp fix but better than disfunctional, tomorrow I'll check my thermo and re time the car. Currently I set it at around 9 deg BTDC. What would be a proper temp thermo for the motor? Quote Link to comment
d510addict Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Damn man you're up late Quote Link to comment
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