The last '4spd 5spd swap' thread?

['70 521 L16]

What say ye we put an end to the clutter on the drivetrain subsection? One thread that anyone can post their engine, trans, driveshaft, flywheel, t/o, etc questions pertaining to a transmission swap. That way quick case specific information is given and the drivetrain section will be just that, and not a tranny swap section. Freeing up space for rear end stuff and trans questions not related to 4/5spd swap etc. Eh? Just a thought.

 

Confirming that

L20b, 225mm flywheel

'83 720 5speed from a z24 (already swapped bellhousing)

roughly 4-6" shortened driveshaft pending measurement

And the usual bit cut out of the rear tranny crossmember

 

Will fit a 521...

 

Do I already have the correct clutch stuff since Z24 was 225mm? I believe the l20b came from a 620.

[datzenmike]

The clutch has little to do with a tranny swap. The clutch is bolted to the flywheel which is part of the motor and it could care less what type of transmission you choose to use behind it. As for the clutch, you can only run what ever size the flywheel will take. Generally 3 sizes... 200mm, 225mm and 240mm. If you want to run a 200mm clutch you will need to find a matching 200mm flywheel in order to use it. There are two flywheel bolt patterns... L16 and L18s are 5 bolt. L20B, Z20, Z22 and Z24 are 6 bolt. 5 bolt flywheels are generally 200mm only, but there is a one year only 225mm 5 bolt for the L18. 6 bolt flywheels come in all three sizes. So your engine will deturmine what clutch size you can run too. BTW I believe the Z24 uses a 240mm clutch/PP/flywheel.

 

The 521 transmission has a splined output shaft with flange and is bolted to the transmission main shaft. The drive shaft on the 521 is bolted to the flange output on the back of the transmission, and even if properly shortened, it won't bolt up to the 'new' 5 speed.

 

 

 

 

 

Even if all the 4/5 speed swapping was in one thread, do you think anyone will read it? We have a FAQ in General and a ' Rules For Posting a Fore Sale Thread' and still people ignore it. No one wants to read through 20 odd pages of tranny swapping banter for a few nuggets of info.

[ppeters914]

x3

 

Just read the main Saturn Alternator Swap thread and it's spin-offs. Same questions asked again and again and again.....

[flatcat19]

I don't know how in-depth the article Mike wrote for DQ is, but wouldn't that alone be worthy of stickiness?

That alone should be enough standard issue, that it would curb some questions...and then from that-an iteration of workable combination's could be devised.

I don't think a thread of everyone's setup would be very helpful. There's 2 ways to skin a cat...and too many people around here with a better mouse trap than the last person.

[Jayden71]

I will be doing a 5spd swap into mah 521 here soon. I am going with a 1 pc driveline. Both it and the tranny are from an '80 720. Prelim measurements show that I should only have to shorten the drive line by 3". I will be taking oics and sharing my progress and/or troubles. Can't WAIT!!

[datzenmike]

It's really a spotters guide for IDing transmissions that might conceivably be used with stock and transplanted motors. Here's a sample part page that I submitted, bearing in mind that this is only for the 510. I suppose some parallels could be drawn for use with other cars. In any case this isn't a 'how to install' but merely a how to tell what you have, what to look for in what you want, some ratios, weaknesses and strengths and what vehicles had them.

 

 

TRANSMISSION IDENTIFICATION: (with the 510 in mind)

 

 

With a car that's up to 40 years old, there's a good chance that many of it's drive train components have worn out or broken and been replaced. It's safe to say that many 510 owners feel they can take something that is great and make it even better. Thus, the car you have now may have had over a half dozen owners all who have added and subtracted parts to increase their driving pleasure. Make that, performance driving pleasure. Stock engine performance can easily be increased or the engine can be swapped from a bewildering array of domestic and foreign power plants. This will seriously tax the ability of the stock transmission to handle so much power and torque and with some motor transplants the stock tranny has to be changed anyway because it simply does not fit the new motor. There are at least four different style 5spds that will fit, or can be made to fit the L series motor. Naturally they won't all 'drop in' and some modification of the tranny mount position to shortening the driveshaft to widening the tranny tunnel may be needed. This isn't a how to install a transmission, but more of a how to identify the transmission in your car, (stock or otherwise) or, identify a replacement upgrade.

 

 

Lets look at some of the standard trannys that could be in your 510 and why. If you are thinking of up-grading to a 5spd or something stronger it sure would be handy to know how to identify what you have, and what you come across for sale on E bay or in a junk yard. Often it happens that a tranny is miss named in an ad, or the owner simply does not know what it is he is selling. It would be nice to be able to know what it came out of or it's approximate age. Can you tell at a glance if the tranny for sale is actually from a 280zx and has the super high over drive 5th gear that you are looking for, or, is it simply an earlier wide ratio 280z or 620 5spd? I'll show you how, and how to quickly identify a dogleg, tell a NAPS Z series tranny from an L series, a 4spd from a 5spd. and some of the strengths and weaknesses of each.

 

Before journeying to a destination it helps to know your starting point. Lets look at the stock standard transmissions in the North American PL/WPL510. The following information is from first hand personal observations coupled with research from Factory Service Manuals and Nissan Parts manuals and is not intended to be thought of as complete. While everything has been done to be as accurate as possible, it must be understood that there are always exceptions and last minute changes that may have gone unrecorded. Some pictures are mine, some given to me and many just collected. If you see one of yours, thank you. If you have any information or corrections you wish to share, e-mail me at: datzenmike@hotmail.com

 

 

 

 

STANDARD TRANSMISSIONS

 

F4W63 4 speed.

 

 

By far the most common and easily recognized transmission in the 510. The F4W63 is of two piece all aluminum construction with the gears and bell housing in one section and a removable tail stock bolted to it. The 'bell' has several longitudinal casting webs and the main body is heavily ribbed and resembles a waffle. The gears are accessed by a removable bottom pan with drain plug. The oil fill plug is about half way up the left (driver's) side while the speedometer drive is on the left side tail stock. (the only L series 4spd. to do so) It uses internal shift linkages coupled to an external 'A' type shifter above the output spline. The 'A' shifter is also known as the 'monkey motion shifter', a name that is well earned even when the rubber shift bushings aren't worn out. It is approximately 26.3" long for use in the 510 but also is produced in 31.5" length with a 5.25" longer tail stock for use in other Datsun cars. The distance between the internal main shaft and counter shaft center lines is 63mm which dictates the maximum gear and bearing diameter that will fit between them and this in turn also limits the power they can handle. Under load the main and counter shafts are under sideways thrust to force them apart and so the counter shaft bearings must be able to handle this. The F4W63 uses small roller needle bearings to support the counter shaft and is robust enough to handle the stock L16 but only adequate for an L20B. The F4W63 used in the 510 wagon is identical but has a wider ratio gear set than the sedan, with a lower (higher numerically) first gear. This identical transmission is also used in the '72- Sept. '73 620 truck. Even reverse is lower for use in a vehicle that was designed for extra load carrying.

 

Sedan Gear Ratios:

 

1st... 3.382

2nd... 2.013

3rd... 1.312

4th... 1.000

Rev... 3.364

 

Wagon Gear Ratios:

 

1st... 3.657

2nd... 2.177

3rd... 1.149

4th... 1.000

Rev... 3.638

[flatcat19]

MOAR! I love learning.

[ppeters914]

Any "How to ID" or similar thang should be a locked down sticky so only the author can edit it. Every time someone does a simple one or two page thread, it expands to so many pages no one will read it. The result is the same questions asked over and over ad nauseum. Granted, some things are worth repeating, but most of the questions are from lazy a$$e$ who want to be spoon fed the answers.

 

/end rant

[mike]

I think that the best "how to" or tech FAQ page Ive seen is on IH8MUD, its actually similar to the olddatsunpuckup stuff but is part of the site, not linked elsewhere. All the topics are on one page under subheadings and there is little "searching" required. Its quick and easy.

 

Another problem with the FAQ here is that the link is buried in a bunch of stickys in the general info section, Ive skimmed right past it when looking for it to give the link to somebody asking for info... and I know exactly where its at. Maybe a partial solution would be placing the link up above in the header next to where the "FORUMS MEMBERS CALENDAR GALLERY" links are at... that way it would be at the top of every page all the time.

 

As far as lazy asses wanting to be spoon fed Im not really too worried about it. A little hand up at the beginning to get them past the initial discouragement goes a long way. Its the whole "teach a man to fish" thing. I figure the more Datsuns saved the better. Also, every time I see someone post up that they got it running/driving/fixed it puts a smile on my face because I know exactly how they feel.

[datzenmike]

Any "How to ID" or similar thang should be a locked down sticky so only the author can edit it. Every time someone does a simple one or two page thread, it expands to so many pages no one will read it. The result is the same questions asked over and over ad nauseum. Granted, some things are worth repeating, but most of the questions are from lazy a$e$ who want to be spoon fed the answers.

 

/end rant

 

I went through the pinned stuff and deleted useless comments and endless super long picture quotes and then locked them so noobs wouldn't post: "excellent info!" It's still top heavy and poorly organized.

[boostkiller]

damn i dident know it was that much work to convert a 521 to 5 speed im kinda bummed

[flatcat19]

damn i dident know it was that much work to convert a 521 to 5 speed im kinda bummed

 

It's not a lot of work. Technically, it's just nuts and bolts. It's more studying, researching, and sourcing the right parts. After you know you got what you need-piece of cake. Knowing how to get the job done is like having a full box of ammunition and a clean gun. Doing it once correctly takes less time than doing it twice.

 

Don't get discouraged. Get hunting.

[izzo]

datto510 did it, he took the yoke outta the 4 speed, put it on the 5 spd, shortened the trans mount 2 inches, and was done... even has a thread on here somewhere.

[datzenmike]

[boostkiller]

so would a 76 280z 5 speed tranny bolt to the l16 motor? i know id have to cut some shit but im still a noob guys sorry.....

[datzenmike]

All L series transmissions will swap onto all other L series motors. So yes. Some may not be a good choice but they will fit. The 280z 5speed was an option on the '77 model year and on. There were no '76 5 speeds but the build date may say '76 as the '77 model year starts in July of '76.

 

If this is for a 521 or early 620 the 280z 5 speed is longer than the stock tranny now in there so the drive shaft will need shortening.