Relays?

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

I'm wiring in a headlamp upgrade on my 71 510 wagon , and I need this space for a relay box I'm putting in. Before I go messing with these things to relocate them. Can anybody tell me what they are? I just want to know what I'm messing with before I mess with it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Laecaon]

horn relays.

 

or at least one of them.

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

horn relays.

 

 

In that case begone with them. I haven't had a horn in like five years.

[Laecaon]

do you have a wiring diagram?

[philcas1987]

Look like auto. Reverse relay, and inhibitor switch/starter relay ? Horn is on strut tower next to headlight relay

[datzenmike]

Best to leave it. Some day this car will belong to someone else who will want to fix the horn for safety reasons. Every time something is removed from these cars it's gone. Every part is precious and unavailable. The horn is a valuable safety device in a car that is 40 years old. You don't have crumple zones, air bags and anti lock brakes so make the best of what you do have.

 

Can't see the wire colors but I can ID if I had them. Probably an automatic so one is likely the indicator relay. It connects to the switches on the carb and has to do with the dual points. The other may be the horn relay. Looks like someone has replaced the spade connectors and they are likely corroded. Harness can be wrapped with new electrical tape to spruce it up and connections cleaned.

[DanielC]

I am sure you know that a 510 switches the headlights on the ground side of the lights. Are you using a kit, or just buying the parts yourself?

Here is a nice relay you can use to wire the lights, if you are not buying a kit. The relay is $6.75. This is a nice relay to use, because it has two 87 pins, instead of one 87, and an 87A.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=kc%203300&dds=1

The two 87 pins means you can hook two lights up to one relay, without having to make a "Y" type splice. If you use only two relays, you will still have to make a pair of "Y"s because on high beams, you have four headlights on. Another option is to get three relays, and wire one relay for the two low beam lights, one relay for the high beam in the low beam lights, and a third relay for the high beam only lights, with an extra switch, so you can choose to use the inside high beam only when you need it.

 

My suggestion, if the stock wiring is good, and the headlights work, is to use the old headlight wiring as the connections to the coil on the additional relays you put in. Just remember, the old system will supply power to the relay coil at all times, and the old switches will just ground the coil, depending if the headlight switch is on, and the position of the dimmer switch.

[DanielC]

About your horn. Do the horns work when you hook then directly up to the battery?

If they do not, you can take then apart, and inside them is a set of points, just like ignition points. Clean them, and try the horn again.

 

The horn relay should power to it all the time. If it does not, probably a bad fuse.

 

There are three connections on the horn relay. Power in, power out, to the horns, and a wire that goes to the steering column. It is the small wire on the horn relay. Grounding this wire connects the other two pins on the relay, and sends power to the horns.

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

Best to leave it. Some day this car will belong to someone else who will want to fix the horn for safety reasons. Every time something is removed from these cars it's gone. Every part is precious and unavailable. The horn is a valuable safety device in a car that is 40 years old. You don't have crumple zones, air bags and anti lock brakes so make the best of what you do have.

 

Can't see the wire colors but I can ID if I had them. Probably an automatic so one is likely the indicator relay. It connects to the switches on the carb and has to do with the dual points. The other may be the horn relay. Looks like someone has replaced the spade connectors and they are likely corroded. Harness can be wrapped with new electrical tape to spruce it up and connections cleaned.

 

 

Well, if I have anything to say about no one else will ever own this car. It's been my daily driver for ten years, and that's not about to change.You make a valid point about the horns being a necessary safety item, but the used Grant steering wheel I installed years ago didn't come with the horn button attachment. I've got another tab open right now looking for one on ebay. Can you elaborate on the indicator relay though. The dual points distributor is now a single points, and the hitachi carb is now a weber. So is the indicator relay of any function at this point?

I'm converting to the BMW elipsoid headlights. One relay each for high and low. 9006 bulbs don't have a high beam filament. So I don't need to wire for high / low on the low beam circuit. I'll be drawing power straight from the battery, and using the original headlight sockets for the switch function. I've done all of the homework, and gathered all my parts. I wasn't looking to get rid of them. I'm just going to relocate out of the way to the strut tower . The relay box I got has four outlets. So if one of them is a horn relay. I can always rewire horns into the box. Everything I'm going off of is based on the diagram below. I was gonna save the details for the how to write up. Another thing is that I heard 510's don't have a headlight relay, but theres one in my wiring diagram. I think its the one mounted to the radiator on the left side. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

About your horn. Do the horns work when you hook then directly up to the battery?

If they do not, you can take then apart, and inside them is a set of points, just like ignition points. Clean them, and try the horn again.

 

The horn relay should power to it all the time. If it does not, probably a bad fuse.

 

There are three connections on the horn relay. Power in, power out, to the horns, and a wire that goes to the steering column. It is the small wire on the horn relay. Grounding this wire connects the other two pins on the relay, and sends power to the horns.

 

The horns from the car are long gone. they never worked right in the first place, and when they did they sounded sad so I just took them out. You guys got me thinkin about wiring up a horn with the headlight project.

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

So, Can the indicator relay just go away, or should I just move it out of the way?

[DanielC]

Please describe the indicator relay a little better. I do not know that name. How many terminals on it, and what is the color of the wires going to it.

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

Please describe the indicator relay a little better. I do not know that name. How many terminals on it, and what is the color of the wires going to it.

 

I'm just gonna consult my wiring diagram, and disconnect them one at a time to see if there is any difference in the way the car runs. Again I'm just relocating them, but I'm going to wire the horn relay into my new relay box. Now I'm just curious about weather the "indicator relay" is serving any purpose at this point. I'm not really sure what the indicator relay did in the first place, but I'll do more digging into it.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Can you use like a H4 harness type set up. where the old harness tells the new harness with the new relays to power up. so there is not cutting of wires. I think this is the simplest and ezest set up to do.

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

Can you use like a H4 harness type set up. where the old harness tells the new harness with the new relays to power up. so there is not cutting of wires. I think this is the simplest and ezest set up to do.

 

My setup will be very similar to the H4 harness you'll see on ebay and other sites. I was shopping for something like that, but I'm cheap and can build it. There will be no cutting of the original harness.

[banzai510(hainz)]

but I'm cheap and can build it.

You must be really cheap but have alot of time I guess.

 

Datto 510 got his H4 harness for like 20$ plug and play system.

took me 20mins to put one harness in my 510. was rolling 80/100watt H4s that night

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

but I'm cheap and can build it.

You must be really cheap but have alot of time I guess.

 

Datto 510 got his H4 harness for like 20$ plug and play system.

took me 20mins to put one harness in my 510. was rolling 80/100watt H4s that night

 

I was looking at those harnesses, and I didn't like the way the looked. I got a fusible link box, relay box, 9006 and 9005 sockets from the pick n pull yard for $10.00. The wire will only be about $10.00 at my work with wire to spare. So I'll have my set up done for the price of one of the pre-fabbed harnesses for sale on ebay. My setup will also be more clean, and exactly how I'll like it. I'll also have room to wire the horn relay in, and and extra spot for use later.

 

My pick n pull relay box:

 

[DanielC]

What is the relay box from?

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

What is the relay box from?

 

93 Aerostar. I'll be sanding the Ford emblem off before the final install. I didn't really want to use a Ford part. But I was pressed for time while I was at the yard, and I knew a Ford would have something I could use. Ford uses the standard Bosch relays for a lot of applications

[Unclejesse88]

For anyone else looking into replacing relays, headlight and horn, be aware that the terminals in the factory relay plugs are identical to those in the bosch relay sockets. Remove the wires from the prewired bosch relay socket, and install the wires you removed from the factory relay connectors. 10 minutes and you will have updated your relays to something more modern and more easily obtainable. Floating around the internets is a diagram showing which factory wires to hook up to which terminals on a bosch relay.

 

The 510 headlight relay on my car is on the strut tower right next to the horn relay. It switches grounds between high and low beam. I'm confused by your wiring diagram, so I'll share how I wired my headlights. I believe it is the small red wire with a bullet connector at the fuse box that comes from the headlamp switch. Disconnect this wire. The end that comes from the headlamp switch now gets connected to terminal 85 of a bosch relay. Terminal 86 goes to ground. Terminal 30 is connected to fused power on the starter lug. Terminal 87 is connected to the fuse box half of the small red wire. This way, my headlamp switch does not pass headlamp current anymore, only about 30mA of relay current. The rest of the factory wiring is untouched. Also, no cutting and splicing, as I used the correct bullet connectors that I bought from Vintage Connections. They also sell the proper plastic connectors, so if you plan any fuse box modifications in the future you can make harnesses that plug in.

 

Do you plan on installing that fuse box inside the car? It is too ugly, even with the ford logo sanded off, to install in the engine compartment. You could use the extra relay spot for the starter relay. Also, that relay box looks similar to the ones found in 90's models crown victoria/grand marquis/town car.

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

My only question that hasn't been answered is. Does the indicator relay still need to be hooked up? Since the dual point dizzy and the original carb are gone.

[Laecaon]

My only question that hasn't been answered is. Does the indicator relay still need to be hooked up? Since the dual point dizzy and the original carb are gone.

 

try running it without it? my guess is yes as the wire that went to point 2 is disconnected.

[banzai510(hainz)]

What is this Indicator relay??????????? The Hightbeam indicator?

 

the dual point relay works in conjuntion with the switch on the firewall and 3rd gear swithc. Most people remove these iteams or just pull the 2nd point wire and its the same.

[DanielC]

I asked in post 12 what the indicator relay is, to describe it, or to tell us what the number of wires, and their color, going to it are. Or, just take a picture of it.

We really want to help you.

Help us help you.

[SHAMUS'WAGON]

I don't know what the indicator relay is or does. My diagram just says indicator. I belive one of the relays in the pic must be it, but I haven't had time to play with it lately.