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Dilemma: R16


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Hey guys, opinions wanted.

My dilemma is this: I have a 67 RL411 that I'm fixing up (the one with the Icono! sticker that's been around a while). I'm redoing the entire interior, doing a bunch of body work, paint, etc... and I'm going to use the thing a lot when it's done (not daily driver per se, but a lot). The R16 engine is running ok, but it's had the tranny replaced (B/W T35 that's not shifting properly) and the engine doesn't seem exactly solid. I could keep the R16 and stay fairly original (I'm not too concerned with being original, really), or I could replace the motor with a modern motor and 1) have something more reliable and 2) have more power.

The engines I'm looking at are the Honda F20C/F22C and the SR20DET - looks like there's been a few swaps for these on 510s and such so I should be able to get help if I need it.

What do you think? Swap? Fix up the R16? Swap the tranny?

 

Opinions? I'm game for all ideas.

 

Thanks!

 

John

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for the size you might look at smaller engines like the miata engine, I know the BP swaps into the roadsters without any cutting so might fit into the 411 SSS the same.

 

If you can find a tranny cheap enough though I'd swap it.. I think there is a roadster one on ebay for like 200 bucks.

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RL411s are fairly rare to begin with. The Type R engine in them has been modified from the original roadster version so that it can fit the smaller 411 engine compartment. The British Borg Warner transmission has been used in most European cars including American manufacturer captive imports and is inherently reliable. "They" are not making any more and this variant is going to get rarer and more valuable in factory original configuration. Your choice is to restore, enjoy now and wait for future price appreciation or modify for the present.

 

By the way, the lower shaft of the shift mechanism for the BW transmission rotates in a "cup" on the transmission and a corresponding "cup" on the frame. Won't work without the frame assembly. Both have weather shields.

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I am a little worried about the size of the engine bay. I can find lots of swaps for 510s, but very few in 411s. Does anyone know of 411 swaps for more modern engines?

 

The 411 engine bay is inded small. Even the roadster typr R engine had to be modified to shorten its overall length to fit inside the 411 engine bay. Take all "easy swap" advice with a grain of salt, ask for pictures and measure with a steel tape, not cloth before you believe what you are told.

Thanks!

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Hi,

 

I built a simple 3D model of my RL411 SSS engine bay and then built some models of some engines I was interested in.

 

The Mazda 1.8L BP with a Mazda Miata A/T:

 

411_chassis_engine_bay_BP_side.jpg

 

The Mazda KL-DE V6 with a Geo Tracker A/T:

 

411_chassis_engine_bay_kl.jpg

 

The Suzuki G16 with a Geo Tracker A/T:

 

411_chassis_engine_bay_g16.jpg

 

The rake or angle on all of these engines is less than the stock angle. They are positioned such that the output end of the transmission is in the same location as stock. They are also positioned so as to clear the front crossmember without notching.

 

There are issues with all three, which I can go into if anyone is interested, but the conclusion that I reached was that the KL-DE was the best fit, and has the best damn sound.

 

Jesse.

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Nice Jesse. How about mocking up a L20b? Mine already has one:

 

engine.jpg

 

but to do it, the PO hacked the hood:

 

hoodhole2.jpg

 

hoodhole1.jpg

 

Hoping to redo the engine mounts so the engine will sit lower and use an unmolested hood. Possible?

 

Btw, there's a guy in Canada doing a CA18T swap, but it's taking years and major fab work. No way around the small engine compartment.

 

 

Pete

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Pete,

 

It takes some time laying under the appropriate vehicle in the junkyard to generate an engine model.

 

Not much point here as the engine is already in the car & you can solve the problem by staring at it.

 

All the engines I know, except the 3-cylinder Suzuki G10 and Mazda rotaries, require a custom oil pan.

 

And then it's just a matter of fitting between the firewall and radiator; the width is almost always fine.

 

Do you have a custom oil pan on yours? If not, it should do the trick; you can usually trim 2" or more.

 

Although, that won't get you your wiper motor back. Like the R16, you'll need a notched valve cover, too.

 

What do the engine mounts look like on your car?

 

Jesse.

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All the engines I know, except the 3-cylinder Suzuki G10 and Mazda rotaries, require a custom oil pan. Do you have a custom oil pan on yours? If not, it should do the trick; you can usually trim 2" or more.

Probably should have been, but PO just hacked front cross member so pan would clear. No pics of that.

 

And then it's just a matter of fitting between the firewall and radiator; the width is almost always fine. Although, that won't get you your wiper motor back. Like the R16, you'll need a notched valve cover, too.

Width isn't generous, but okay. Yeah, I haven't tried to fit the wiper motor, yet. Will worry about it -AFTER- I get it running.

 

What do the engine mounts look like on your car?

 

motor_mount0003.jpg

 

Real professional, eh? :blink:

 

 

motor_mount0002.jpg

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