Locking a Distributor?

[Phlebmaster]

Has anyone ever locked thier dizzy?

 

I was talking to a guy who races and he asked me if I locked my distributor...and I was not sure what he meant. :confused:

 

He said that you can have your distributor locked at a shop and this will eliminate the vac advance. Is this something that can be done with an L motor?? I just have never heard of this before.

 

Thanks for your help. :D

[69FJWagon]

ya I have you weld up the advance so its locked and you dont run the vaccum advance. with that said you may not have to pull the vaccum line and check your timing should be around 10* initial and you want somewhere in the neighborhood of 32 to 35 total advanced, I can give more info if needed. are you running a single point dizzy with pertronix or a black box dizzy?

[Phlebmaster]

ya I have you weld up the advance so its locked and you dont run the vaccum advance. with that said you may not have to pull the vaccum line and check your timing should be around 10* initial and you want somewhere in the neighborhood of 32 to 35 total advanced, I can give more info if needed. are you running a single point dizzy with pertronix or a black box dizzy?

 

I am running a matchbox with the black box. Please...more info. :D :D

[mnementh666]

I haven't locked mine, but I don't see why you couldn't. It seems to be a matter of locking out the vacuum advance, and possibly removing/locking/welding the the mechanical advance as well. This gives equal advance across the entire RPM range, without the variability of all the advance mechanisms. Less chance of things going awry? :confused:

Major issues appear to be a possible detriment to street-ability, and it makes more strain on the starter.

Might be interesting to mess with, if you happen to have a spare distributor. I would, if I had one :D

 

On a side note Phleb... I re-timed mine last weekend, gave it a ton of initial advance (timed by ear, don't have a light yet, next on the list) and it really helped out with the low-mid range, and maybe even high-end. Without the light, it's hard to say, but with the EI rotor pointing ~exactly at the pickups, it looks about 15-20 degrees. Might be worth a shot on your motor.

 

What redline are you running to? I impose a 6k limit on my motor. :blink:

[Phlebmaster]

I haven't locked mine, but I don't see why you couldn't. It seems to be a matter of locking out the vacuum advance, and possibly removing/locking/welding the the mechanical advance as well. This gives equal advance across the entire RPM range, without the variability of all the advance mechanisms. Less chance of things going awry? :confused:

Major issues appear to be a possible detriment to street-ability, and it makes more strain on the starter.

Might be interesting to mess with, if you happen to have a spare distributor. I would, if I had one :D

 

On a side note Phleb... I re-timed mine last weekend, gave it a ton of initial advance (timed by ear, don't have a light yet, next on the list) and it really helped out with the low-mid range, and maybe even high-end. Without the light, it's hard to say, but with the EI rotor pointing ~exactly at the pickups, it looks about 15-20 degrees. Might be worth a shot on your motor.

 

What redline are you running to? I impose a 6k limit on my motor. :blink:

 

 

Cool! Thanks for that info.....I always limit it around 6k also. I am just too scared to run it any higher than that yet. Even though it WILL try and go beyond that if I am not paying attention. :lol:

 

Maybe I will see what I can do just before I do the Z22 piston swap. :D

 

I am thinking right now of trying something.....I am getting a vac advance because mine is shot. So...I am thinking of using the old vac advance and making it an adjustable one just for kicks. I will have to try it out and let you know.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Phlebmaster

[LAYEDOUTB2K]

my dad locks his advance in his racecar motor. but he is also running a mallory unilite billet distributor that is programed in to electronically advance his timing so it starts and idles better. no idea on streetability because the motor only runs in the 7.5k to 8.5k range when on the track.:fu:

[Phlebmaster]

I could use something like this to actuate the advance from inside the truck so I can find the sweet spot and account for temp changes......

 

 

Or a knob type adjustment just like those fancy electronic ignition set-ups.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Phlebmaster

[Wharf Rat]

If you had a model T they had the advance control in the middle of your steering wheel, I think that was a great thing :) Just don't forget to retard before hand cranking to start :blink:

[Phlebmaster]

If you had a model T they had the advance control in the middle of your steering wheel, I think that was a great thing :) Just don't forget to retard before hand cranking to start :blink:

 

:lol::lol: Remembering to RETARD has never been a problem for me. :D

[69FJWagon]

Aaron, the dizzys in Lisa's 510 is welded and the one in my wagon is also welded up, I will see if I have any pictures of how to do it

 

Clayton

[Phlebmaster]

Aaron, the dizzys in Lisa's 510 is welded and the one in my wagon is also welded up, I will see if I have any pictures of how to do it

 

Clayton

 

Ok, Thanks Clayton. :cool:

[Z-train]

Locking the timing out is for track cars.On the street it will hurt drivability & fuel economy

[Phlebmaster]

Locking the timing out is for track cars.On the street it will hurt drivability & fuel economy

 

I have dual carbs.....fuel economy is not a worry. :D But how will it effect drivablilty?

[Wharf Rat]

Ya, I Know what ya mean uh huh uh huh :lol:

 

Don't worry to much about locking it they have a spring that holds them wetaaahded wike me, just keeps them from vibrating apart.

 

How she running anyhow ?

[Wharf Rat]

No worrys on how it runs, it will be fine on the street they started adding them for smog in the late sixtys.

 

I have unhooked countless

[Phlebmaster]

Ya, I Know what ya mean uh huh uh huh :lol:

 

Don't worry to much about locking it they have a spring that holds them wetaaahded wike me, just keeps them from vibrating apart.

 

How she running anyhow ?

 

 

Uploading a video now. :)

 

EDIT: video posted in my project thread :D

Edited April 9, 2009 by Phlebmaster
posted video in my project thread.

[Phlebmaster]

Anyone familiar with R/C cars???

 

What about using a servo or electric sylenoid to actuate the vac advance. This way you get the benefits of the retarded timing for starting, and the benefit of a locked advance?? :cool: And you could easily mount this set-up to an old vac advance assy.

 

With the servo...you could regulate the advance with a control box in the truck.

 

With the sylenoid....you could have it set where you want it in the on position, and activate it with a switch after start-up.

 

Sound too way out there??? :confused:

[69FJWagon]

when they say locking out its not totally locked. if you take apart the dizzy and remove the vaccum advance assy. from the dizzy you have to weld the rotation plate so it doesnt move then check timing if you have to much full advance you weld up one of the slots on the advance deal in the bottom of the dizzy not all the way just a little to limit the advance, it takes time and pay attention how it comes apart and make sure it goes back the same. we had to do this to Lisas 2 door and ended up welding to much then you have to open the slot up a little till you get it where you want it.

 

Clayton

[Phlebmaster]

This is the starting of my idea...

 

I drilled out the plug....

 

 

 

Next I plan on puting in a long set screw in the hole after I tap it...then use a long nut. I will drill the long nut and put the cable through it and then run another set screw to lock the cable in.

 

Then I will use a bicycle brake cable sheath and run it to the firewall. The I can attach a threaded bolt set-up and mount the cable to the bolt in the cab by drilling a hole into a large washer and ........well that is as far as I have gotten. :D

 

[datzenmike]

Locking the timing out is for track cars.On the street it will hurt drivability & fuel economy

 

 

Have to agree. Some track tricks don't translate over to street very well.

 

At full throttle, gas and air always takes the same time to burn fully and expand to push the piston down. The point of maximum expansion should fall at about 17 degrees after TDC. The whole idea of timing advance is to offset the shorter time allowed for the fuel to burn as the motor speeds up. Higher speed (RPMs), shorter time available to burn, so start the burn sooner. (advance) Mechanical advance is fixed and is dependent on RPMs only and maxes out at 30-35 degrees on or before 3,000 RPMs. This includes the 10 degrees static timing at idle. The distributor doesn't spin fast enough below 1,200-1,500 RPM to cause the advance weights to move and advance the timing nor is it needed. The static 10 degrees will cover that at low speed. All of the above is for heavy throttle

 

 

Notice I said 'at full throttle'. Funny thing is, is that at part throttle, it takes even longer to burn as the molecules are less densely packed and the flame doesn't travel at it's maximum speed compared to a full throttle/fully packed cylinder. So at low speed, light throttle, (or load) it would be advantageous to advance the timing so that every ounce of hot expanding air in the cylinder is pushing down on the pistons at just the right time after TDC. The mechanical advance can't do it because it only varies timing due directly to RPMs.

 

The best method yet is to use the manifold vacuum. At lower speeds it varies directly with throttle position and load. Light throttle, high vacuum, high advance. Heavy throttle, low vacuum, low advance. The perfect solution.

 

Say you are driving around town, accelerating slowly in traffic at low speeds and part throttle. The partially filled cylinder needs more time to burn completely so the manifold vacuum advances the dizzy about 15 to 20 degrees (plus the initial static timing of 10 degrees plus any small mechanical advance, say 5-7 degrees depending on RPMs) to around 30-37 total degrees, often higher. This give the optimal time for complete combustion and you get ALL the energy from your fuel.

 

Now say you are accelerating up to highway speed. Full throttle, over 2,500 RPMs, full mechanical and static advance of 30-35 degrees is reached and you have maximum power. You reach cruise speed, let up on the throttle. Now there is less fuel and air in the cylinders which need way more time to burn but the mechanical advance is locked in at 30-35 degrees. But when you let up on the throttle it closes, and manifold vacuum rises and so does the vacuum advance to the tune of another 10-15 degrees which added to the 30-35 mechanical degrees becomes up to 50 total degrees.

 

Without the vacuum advance at cruise speed the mechanical advance would allow your fuel to burn too late and the maximum expansion would occur well after that 17 degree after TDC 'sweet spot' and your economy would suffer.

 

If there is any advantage to 'welding the dizzy' it is only at extreme throttle and RPMs where there is no need of any variable advance, mechanical or vacuum.

Edited April 11, 2009 by datzenmike

[Wharf Rat]

I did not read much of that Mike because I know that as long as you have a mech. advance your all set, don't over analize stuff. Sorry man but I have been around. Luv WRAT :)

[Phlebmaster]

I did not read much of that Mike because I know that as long as you have a mech. advance your all set, don't over analize stuff. Sorry man but I have been around. Luv WRAT :)

 

I plan in just trying to make an adjustable advance for my distributor. But I also plan on having at the ready a working one as a back-up. ;)

 

Thanks for the info Mike.

 

This is just one of those things I want to try....just like the hood, and the dual carbs, my flames, and what other crazy crap I have tried with my 620. :lol:

[DISLEXICDIME]

I haven't locked mine, but I don't see why you couldn't. It seems to be a matter of locking out the vacuum advance, and possibly removing/locking/welding the the mechanical advance as well. This gives equal advance across the entire RPM range, without the variability of all the advance mechanisms. Less chance of things going awry? :confused:

Major issues appear to be a possible detriment to street-ability, and it makes more strain on the starter.

Might be interesting to mess with, if you happen to have a spare distributor. I would, if I had one :D

 

On a side note Phleb... I re-timed mine last weekend, gave it a ton of initial advance (timed by ear, don't have a light yet, next on the list) and it really helped out with the low-mid range, and maybe even high-end. Without the light, it's hard to say, but with the EI rotor pointing ~exactly at the pickups, it looks about 15-20 degrees. Might be worth a shot on your motor.

 

What redline are you running to? I impose a 6k limit on my motor. :blink:

 

 

you still living out by me if so you can stop bye and use my timing light

[Phlebmaster]

you still living out by me if so you can stop bye and use my timing light

 

I got one too if you are out my way. :)

[Wharf Rat]

You can use mine too :)

 

Come on over have a cup of joe :D