R180, 3.65 Ring and Pinion, LSD, 280ZX Trans

[VelvetHammer]

Hey guys,

 

I'm trying to get my beater 510 race car on the track without breaking the bank. I'm looking for:

 

Differential:

-R180 complete differential (no half shafts or stub axels, just full housing)

-4.375 ring and pinion - R180 (my ideal ratio for .86 OD)

-4.625 ring and pinion - R180 (2nd choice)

-4.11 ring and pinion - R180 (I'll need this if I find a Option 2 trans)

-LSD (would consider any clutch-pack style)

 

Transmission:

-280ZX Transmission (Early wide ratio - .86 OD) or

-720 Truck Transmission '79-'81(?) (.86 OD)

 

If someone has a NISMO Option 2 transmission (ha, yeah right) lemme know!

 

Also need:

MSD 6AL

 

Probably more to come, but this will get me part of the way there.

Thanks

Edited November 1, 2008 by VelvetHammer

[datzenmike]

For a wide ratio FS5W71B with an L series bolt pattern you want the '77-79 280z tranny or the '77-'78 620 truck it's identical.

 

There are other FS5W71B trannys that have the wide ratio, but not the L series bolt pattern. Any 5spd front case half with the correct bolt pattern can be swapped on to them to convert it. Some of these trannys are:

 

'81-'82 720 2wd with Z22 motor (0'883 O/D)

'83.5-'86.5 720 2wd with Z24 motor (0.833 O/D)

6'79-6/'81 200sx with Z20E motor (0.864 O/D) same as 280z

 

For a low mileage R-180 differentials search the wreckers for

 

4.375

'80 to early '83 720 4X4 trucks.

'86.5 and up D-21 Hardbody with Z24i manual tranny.

 

4.11

'83.5-'86.5 4X4 720s with the Z24 motors.

 

4.625

'87 and up Pathfinder with Z24i motor manual tranny. Good luck with this one I've never seen a 4cyl Path yet!

 

Nissan made it very easy to search for differential ratio you want. Look under the hood on the passenger side inner fender just below the hood hinge. There is a credit card sized aluminum tag with all the info you need. The 720s, the D-21 Hardbody and the D-22 Pathfinder all have this tag.

 

Down near the bottom it says TRANS/AXLE......FS5W71B.... HF38

 

HF 38 means a 3.889 ratio. HF 41 would mean 4.11, HF43 is 4.375 and so on.

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/720stuff034Large.jpg[/img]"]

Edited November 1, 2008 by datzenmike

[thisismatt]

...can't mix pre 76 gears with post 76 carriers as well, since they changed from a ring gear ID of 110mm to 115mm.

[VelvetHammer]

Opps, I meant 280Z transmission, yep I'm looking for the '77-79 (wide ratio - .86 OD)

 

Hmm, I was told 720 not 620 regarding the other (L-Series Bell) .86 OD trans, thanks for the clarification, and the guide how to decode the engine compartment tag

 

And Matt, thanks for the heads up on the ring gear ID shift.

 

I'm told the 4.625 can be found in the front diff of a 720 (8/79 - 6/80), true?

 

Now I've gotta find a few wrecking yards here that haven't been completely scavenged. If anyone has any of these parts in hand let me know!

 

Everyone I talk to (or "Google") seems to have a different take on what model years "X-part" comes off of.

 

Here's an interesting, yet mind numbing, thread concerning transmissions Check out the 10th post.

 

Based on this, I've decided to start the ultimate trans/ diff spreadsheet here.

 

There are two sheets, one for Transmission and one for Differentials (see lower left of spreadsheet).

 

If you're interested in helping fill in the database you can send me an excel doc with the same formatting/ column titles filled out. Or I can give you direct Editor access. I'll contact the guys at the ZCar forum to see if they can continue to add to it. One guy seems to have quite a few reference manuals.

 

If I should add or delete a column lemme know this is a bit out of my wheel house.

Edited November 2, 2008 by VelvetHammer

[4cylinders]

hey, check out this link.

 

http://www.reiderracing.com/pgpowerbrute.htm

[datzenmike]

The first year 720 (square head lights) was the 1980 model year and was the last year the L20B was used and the first year 4x4 was available from the factory. The differential ratio for '80 2 and 4wd trucks was 4.375. For '82 the Z22 motor was used but the 4X4 differential remained the same ratio until '83.5 when Z24 motors were installed, and changed to 4.11s.

 

The 1980 2 and 4wd trucks, and the 1981-1983 4wd trucks used the same very wide ratio 5spd with a 3.592 1st gear and 0.882 o/d. The 1982-1983 2wd used a less wide 5spd with a 3.321 1st gear and 0.883 o/d. Naturally all trannys after 1980 were of the Z series motor bolt pattern.

 

The earliest truck 4.625 R-180-A that I know of is the early 4wd D-22 Pathfinder with Z24i motor and 5spd.

Edited November 3, 2008 by datzenmike

[VelvetHammer]

hey, check out this link.

 

http://www.reiderracing.com/pgpowerbrute.htm

 

ha, I was just reading about Precision Gear. I'm told their factory was destroyed in a earthquake last year, apparently parts are backordered/ difficult to get. I'll call tomorrow and see if they have any in stock.

 

I know a guy who has a Quaife for sale ($1k). Not only is it pricey, but I'm told you can lose torque if you ever lift a wheel, probably not ideal when racing. Lifetime guarantee though, no need to service. Like with most things, you may just have to experience it to get a real opinion.

 

Thanks

[VelvetHammer]

The first year 720 (square head lights) was the 1980 model year and was the last year the L20B was used and the first year 4x4 was available from the factory. The differential ratio for '80 2 and 4wd trucks was 4.375. For '82 the Z22 motor was used but the 4X4 differential remained the same ratio until '83.5 when Z24 motors were installed, and changed to 4.11s.

 

The 1980 2 and 4wd trucks, and the 1981-1983 4wd trucks used the same very wide ratio 5spd with a 3.592 1st gear and 0.882 o/d. The 1982-1983 2wd used a less wide 5spd with a 3.321 1st gear and 0.883 o/d. Naturally all trannys after 1980 were of the Z series motor bolt pattern.

 

The earliest truck 4.625 R-180-A that I know of is the early 4wd D-22 Pathfinder with Z24i motor and 5spd.

 

great stuff, i'll try to distill this into my spreadsheet

Thanks

[VelvetHammer]

Hey,

Do you guys know if the R180 out of a Z car is the same as the one in a 720?

There seem to be plenty of cheap R180's available ($50-$100, probably because they come with a useless gear ratio (3.54)

 

If I do this, I'll only need to find the ring and pinion, I've got to get an LSD anyway.

 

Will this work?:confused:

[thisismatt]

A 720 R180 is going to be the 115mm ring gear. You can tell them apart without opening them up by looking at the top of the pumpkin - the later model R180's have a 'K' stamped on the top. Here's a picture of one I pulled from a 720:

 

 

Notice the CV stub shafts. These are clip in, but you can transfer the old style R180 "buttons" into the 'K' R180 to make it use the bolt-in stub shafts. I've also seen these CV stub shafts in a bolt-in form, which might also indicate a different ratio gearset from the earliest models (don't know that for sure, just a guess). You can also find R180's in some 200SX's. The R180's in hardbody trucks use a modified pumpkin with an extension axle tube off one side. I believe they are otherwise similar in the ring and pinions and those should be able to swap.

[VelvetHammer]

In this thread(1st post), when he says "R180 = 180 mm ring gear", is that the outside diameter of the gear? and which ring gear (the 110mm or 115mm) would he be referring to?:blink:

 

Thanks for helping me through this learning curve, it's a steep one.

[thisismatt]

Yes, 180mm outer diameter for all intents and purposes. However, in/at/during/after '76 the inner diameter of the R180 ring gear was changed from 110mm to 115mm. From that thread:

In addition to the bolt in axle issues, there is another difference between early and late R180s. Early R180's measure 110mm inside the ring gear. 77 and later model year R180s measure 115mm inside the ring gear. This minor change means that the ring and pinions won't swap between the early and later models. If you have an early diff you must use an early carrier, and if you have the later diff you must use a later carrier. It is possible to use a early carrier on a later ring gear with a spacer, but that is outside the scope of this thread.

So okay, '77, but you get my point I hope :)

[thisismatt]

You might want to try sourcing the R180 clutch LSD carrier first, anyways. You might not be able to find one (if you do, let me know). Purenissan.com/calmini had them up until a month or so ago...waited too long :( I don't know anyone else that carries them.

[VelvetHammer]

You might want to try sourcing the R180 clutch LSD carrier first, anyways. You might not be able to find one (if you do, let me know). Purenissan.com/calmini had them up until a month or so ago...waited too long :( I don't know anyone else that carries them.

 

Looks like you were right about it being '76 (or 7/76 to be exact)

http://www.precisiongear.com/powerbrute.htm

Now I understand the difference between the LOM55E and LOM33L.

 

Good idea to check the availability of carriers first!

 

Thanks

Edited November 3, 2008 by VelvetHammer

[banzai510(hainz)]

calmini had LSD diff sections

Jeff got one(Icehouse)

[Bleach]

Here's an interesting, yet mind numbing, thread concerning transmissions Check out the 10th post.

I'm not sure why you are concerning yourself with the early 240Z and Roadster 3-piece transmissions. They are talking about rare and vintage (and weaker) trannys that you don't need. That is what I have in my 2000cc Fairlady Z. You don't want that in a race car.

 

Stick to the late 70's 280Z stuff. $100-200 each in good working condition.

[agentalpha]

The rear in my 720 looked nothing like that.

 

It was a standard, full width rear axle, like you would find in any American car.

[VelvetHammer]

I'm not sure why you are concerning yourself with the early 240Z and Roadster 3-piece transmissions. They are talking about rare and vintage (and weaker) trannys that you don't need. That is what I have in my 2000cc Fairlady Z. You don't want that in a race car.

 

Stick to the late 70's 280Z stuff. $100-200 each in good working condition.

 

:confused: I'm not interested in the 240Z or Roadster, the 10th post is talking about Nismo "steel syncro" trannys, no?

 

Like you suggest, I'm looking for a FS5W71B transmission with the .86 overdrive. Anything less than that will supremely suck on the track. That's also why I'm looking for a 4.38 or 4.62 rear to compensate for the final drive ratio.

 

I'm told the ultimate track setup is the Nismo Option 2 trans (1:1 OD) + 4.11s. This will cost about $4,000, if someone could find an Option 2, and they can't.:(

 

The budget racer method would be to get the .86 OD Z trans and suffer the ratios. Unless the guy sucks as a driver, I will not be able to beat a guy with an Option 2 + 4.11 with a Z-trans set up, given the same engine, etc.

 

Anything with .86 OD + steel syncros = Excellent + $$$

 

I'll take .86 OD + Warner syncros if anyone has one.

[thisismatt]

calmini had LSD diff sections

Jeff got one(Icehouse)

They no longer have them, I checked.

[thisismatt]

The rear in my 720 looked nothing like that.

 

It was a standard, full width rear axle, like you would find in any American car.

FRONT diffs in 720 4x4's are normal longnose R180's.

[VelvetHammer]

They no longer have them, I checked.

 

Yeah I checked their site too, looks like the R200 is king these days.

 

I tried to call reiderracing.com, but they're closed for some sort of inventory check. I hope they are counting the R180 LSD's they have in stock

Edited November 4, 2008 by VelvetHammer