Pedro Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Hey Guys, I'm aware there has been a few of these topics, and that one dude made a welded caliper bracket conversion etc (unfortunately welded caliper bracket is not legal in Australia). So with that aside, here are my questions; - I'm led to believe the front brakes on a 411 SS/SSS and a sp311 roadster are the same? Is this correct? If yes, does that mean the spindles are the same on those models? - If the spindles are the same between the models above, looking at pictures on the internet, the hubs appear to be different to the 411 non SSS hubs (bear with me). Anyone know if it's just the hub that is different? Meaning I could purchase some SP311 hubs & front caliper/bracket/rotors and win at life? - Who has done any conversion in the brakes department for a 411? Interested to chat to you. I would be happy to run drums all round from factory, but the fact is my brakes haven't been used in 20 years, and it's looking like $1k in parts to replace shoes, wheel cylinders, single piston master cylinder etc. Sp311 gear would be a quick easy win, otherwise I'll have to start looking at hub replacements & caliper brackets OR a complete spindle replacement from a nissan hardbody or something, which introduces other issues like steering compatibility & stud pattern etc etc. /End rant & questions. help! Quote Link to comment
erichwaslike Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 roadster and 411 use a drastically different spindle and brake setup Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted July 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 roadster and 411 use a drastically different spindle and brake setup Doh! So disc front brake components are completely different? Can you provide a bit more detail, appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment
MikeRL411 Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Contact "Tana the Datsun Lady" on this site for RL411 front end parts! She is closing out her stash of early Datsun parts and just have a few RL411 front end parts to ease your future concerns, Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted July 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Contact "Tana the Datsun Lady" on this site for RL411 front end parts! She is closing out her stash of early Datsun parts and just have a few RL411 front end parts to ease your future concerns, Thanks Mike, I'll shoot her a message, but I'm resigning myself to the fact a 4 wheel disc brake upgrade might be on the cards. I have a 410 parts car, so I can pull the front suspension out of it for making my own kit. Just need to find a decent caliper off a common model to start with. I want to keep 13 inch steel rims, so will be looking for a suitable caliper that fits a smaller disc. Will post updates as it moves along. Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted July 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Forgot about this one, might not be useful for you guys state side, but for any Australian guys. This is a conversion done on a Datsun 1000, but I have a feeling it may cross over R31 skyline rear caliper bracket R31 rear rotor Ke55-ke70 front girlock calipers Commodore caliper cradle bolted to girlock caliper Quote Link to comment
Swedishcadillac Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 During one of my late night research binges, I found that Geo Metro disc brakes and calipers will fit inside a 13 inch rim. Brackets would have to be fabricated... But such is 410/411 life! http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/mustang-pages-1965-1973/527929-disk-brakes-13-wheels-yes-use-complete-geo-metro-brake-system.html#/forumsite/20490/topics/527929?page=1 Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted July 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 During one of my late night research binges, I found that Geo Metro disc brakes and calipers will fit inside a 13 inch rim. Brackets would have to be fabricated... But such is 410/411 life! http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/mustang-pages-1965-1973/527929-disk-brakes-13-wheels-yes-use-complete-geo-metro-brake-system.html#/forumsite/20490/topics/527929?page=1 Interesting Josh, I think they are called a suzuki Swift over here. Will check it out. The only pain might be having to either redrill the rotors for PCD and centre hole AND/OR buying a blank rotor and doing the same. These guys seem to do some sort of caliper bracket that could be copied from a design perspective Quote Link to comment
Swedishcadillac Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Interesting Josh, I think they are called a suzuki Swift over here. Will check it out. The only pain might be having to either redrill the rotors for PCD and centre hole AND/OR buying a blank rotor and doing the same. These guys seem to do some sort of caliper bracket that could be copied from a design perspective Geo metro, Suzuki swift and pretty much all early Datsun are 4 x 114.3 PCD. That's why I thought it's a good option for disk swap that accepts a 13" wheel Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted September 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Forgot about this one, might not be useful for you guys state side, but for any Australian guys. This is a conversion done on a Datsun 1000, but I have a feeling it may cross over R31 skyline rear caliper bracket R31 rear rotor Ke55-ke70 front girlock calipers Commodore caliper cradle bolted to girlock caliper Made some progress with the below stuff; R31 skyline rear caliper bracket - procured, some trimming required on edges to make it sit flat on the spindle face, will also require about 1mm taken out from the internal hole diameter, also needs holes welded and redrilled to suit (will use drum backing plate guide as reference. Pic below R31 rear rotor - Rotor will need some machining internally OR hub machined, I will do the hubs if there is enough material to do so when the time comes. Ke55-ke70 front girlock calipers - Did some investigative work and I believe Stanza Girlock calipers may be identical to the corolla ones, this is good news for me as I got stanza calipers for $55 posted versus $150 for a set of corolla ones. Commodore caliper cradle bolted to girlock caliper - Need to find these as the last component to trial it up together. Master Cylinder - Looking like this may do the job -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201479592684?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 Some pics Rotor centre needs machining 50 years of neglect Front Drum setup 1 Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted November 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 Just for a thread update, have progressed slightly with this. Bought R31 caliper brackets, removed spindle from parts sedan, stripped off Drum brake gear, mocked up R31 caliper bracket. Took to a R31 rear disc with a grinder to make it fit over the P410 hub for mocking.R31 brackets required some material to be removed from the sides to sit flat, welded up holes on the brackets as they don't line up. Redrilled them to suit using the drum backing plate bolt guide.Bought some Stanza girlock calipers in the hope they would work in place of the corolla calipers but they are a wider spacing, doh. So went for commodore rear calipers instead due to price and availability ($70 a pair vs $140+ for corolla).Ordered a dual piston master cylinder based off information on datsun1200.com. Found out the master I received is for a car with a booster, so now need to make new push rod for the master.P410 spindle with 50 years of crud/neglectR31 disc before grinding, just needs some clearancing in the centre (I will machine hubs to suit when I confirm this will all work).R31 bracket mockupWelded (complete overkill with wire but limited time and done in the dark, so no farks given)Ground BackUse Hub/steering knuckle nut holder as template for new holes in caliper bracketMockupFlipped existing one over to mark holes for second bracketNew Brake Master arrived (JB1196)Old single piston brake masterPushrods are different, this is the non boosted oneRemoved the circlip and washer to fit the non boosted push rodFitted it, but confident it won't work, so now will remove and make a whole new one to suit (will reuse clevis)The summary is all I really need to do to make the above work is; - Get some round material with a hole through the centre (thick enough to not flex) so I can fill the space between the caliper bracket and the caliper bolt holes. - Run new brake lines (new rubber ones may also be required) for the dual master setup. - Buy new rotors and machine hub down to suit rotors. - Make a new pushrod to suit "boosted" master cylinder (used in non boosted setup). After going through all this stuff, it definitely shows me how easy it would be to create a caliper bracket to suit most decent 2 piston calipers. The disc brake "hat" depth is where you get your wheel offset and spacing from steering arms sorted. 3 Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Nice use of stock components. :) 1 Quote Link to comment
jfbrink Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 This is exciting. Do you think you could provide factory part numbers on the components so that we can see if any of these bits and pieces are available on US market cars? It doesn't seem that any of these models have US equivalents, but hopefully the parts bin knows no borders. I'm very interested to see how the fit goes with the 10" rotors inside 13" wheels. The RL411 rotors are about 8.75" and the Metro/Swift rotors are just over 9". I'm doing using a Metro setup on my '68 Corona Coupe, and they BARELY clear the wheel interior, and I don't really see how one could gain an extra 1/2" in the caliper design. Here's what I'm doing on my Corona, just for reference: 2 Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Hey Guys, So I'm using the following - R31 Nissan skyline rear caliper brackets - example here -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-R31-skyline-Hotrod-rear-brake-caliper-brackets-/332037041790 - Holden Commodore rear calipers - I believe the model of commodore is VS, they came with an internal drum handbrake setup so the calipers don't have the ratchet system like you find on most rear calipers. I'm told the pistons in these may be small, so they aren't a "performance" caliper, but they match the caliper bracket spacing & the rotor thickness. Example of caliper -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-COMMODORE-VR-VS-LEFT-REAR-BRAKE-CALIPER-SUIT-SOLID-AXLE-06-93-07-97-/291861544968 The rotors are also R31 rear skyline, the part code is DBA616 (RDA616), these part codes are for australian suppliers, but can assist you with finding the hat size, thickness etc. I'll be purchasing some new ones off ebay shortly, example here -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIMPLED-SLOTTED-Nissan-Skyline-R31-1986-1991-REAR-DISC-BRAKE-ROTORS-RDA616D-/281346881945 If I was going for performance I'd try and go for a twin piston caliper setup and make a custom caliper bracket. I still like the solid rotor though as it's good for packaging purposes and wheel fitment. Thanks 2 Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 This is exciting. Do you think you could provide factory part numbers on the components so that we can see if any of these bits and pieces are available on US market cars? It doesn't seem that any of these models have US equivalents, but hopefully the parts bin knows no borders. I'm very interested to see how the fit goes with the 10" rotors inside 13" wheels. The RL411 rotors are about 8.75" and the Metro/Swift rotors are just over 9". I'm doing using a Metro setup on my '68 Corona Coupe, and they BARELY clear the wheel interior, and I don't really see how one could gain an extra 1/2" in the caliper design. Here's what I'm doing on my Corona, just for reference: Can you measure the ID of the rotor hat for me? I'd like to see if it would fit over the disc brake hub. Thanks :) Quote Link to comment
jfbrink Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 @]2eDeYe - The ID of the Geo Metro rotor hat is 137mm. The distance from the inner mounting surface of the hat to the inboard face of the rotor is about 44mm. The rotor is 17mm thick. Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 Thanks :thumbup: Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted December 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Got some scrap tube from my friends workshop and holding the caliper on the rotor with pads installed took a close measurement of the distance between faces of the caliper and caliper bracket mount hole. Then used a pipe cutter to cut the tube, repeated twice then bolted it together. Pics below; Measured the distance again and came in around 22.5mm, so now getting 4 x 22.5mm spacers machined on a lathe for accuracy. Early next year I'll order new rotors then get the hubs machined to suit, bolt it on the car, make some brakes lines and a push rod then see if they actually work. 1 Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted December 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Man I just scrolled up and realised I started this in July, not sure this car will ever run in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment
jfbrink Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I think if you used a flat plate for your caliper bracket, somewhere between 10-12mm thick, your life would be a lot easier. The cantilever and those spacers make me nervous. 1 Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I think if you used a flat plate for your caliper bracket, somewhere between 10-12mm thick, your life would be a lot easier. The cantilever and those spacers make me nervous. No doubt it could have been done a different way. However the setup is rigid, the caliper brackets I used incorporate curved sections which give it strength even with the sections I have removed. Either way I'll report back when it (if) the car runs and I have tested them. Quote Link to comment
RJC786 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Well, I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread!I've recently acquired a WP411 project car and one of the first things I wanted to address is the brakes as I've got to put the system back together anyway. Have just started digging around the internet for information before I measure everything up and start sussing out what other OEM parts I might be able to harvest for it. Do you know if there's any truth to 240Z stock front brakes fitting these? Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Well, I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread! I've recently acquired a WP411 project car and one of the first things I wanted to address is the brakes as I've got to put the system back together anyway. Have just started digging around the internet for information before I measure everything up and start sussing out what other OEM parts I might be able to harvest for it. Do you know if there's any truth to 240Z stock front brakes fitting these? Cannot confirm the 240z thing, but unless they come with a separate caliper bracket to mount the caliper I can't seem them working on NON SSS 410/411 hub & spindle. A SSS one maybe if they come with a caliper ear, but I haven't seen a SSS 411 spindle yet to compare. Quote Link to comment
Pedro Posted March 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Making progress on this conversion & car as a whole, thought I'd chuck an update for completeness. Tack welded the spacers on the brackets using a clamp, then painted Got hubs machined to suit the rotors Rotors fit perfect now Will be repacking the bearings then installing everything on the car. The 410 bearings that are installed in the hubs for reference Front of stub - Bearing 30304A (NSK Brand) Rear of stub axle - Bearing 30206 (NSK Brand). Hub seal - 40227 08000 Does anyone know of a longer wheel stud that can be used on the 410/411? Now that I'm using a slip on rotor, it's slightly thicker than the drum face, so want to make sure I have enough thread on the nuts. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I used these studs. Moser Engineering 7/16-20 1.750" 0.480 Knurl Steel Wheel Stud 10 pc P/N 8259 Ordered them from amazon :) Quote Link to comment
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