280z suspension upgrade :D

[gus280z]

Im upgrading the suspension on the 280. The shocks are blown,all the bushings are cracked, but not all is bad the original owner started doing some upgrades (installed msa blue springs) before he sold the car. I ordered a new set of kybs, a master set of poly bushings and front and rear swaybars
So far ive only installed the front sway bar and the steering bushing that goes between the rack and the steering shaft

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[datzenmike]

Polly is too stiff for a street car. The tension rod bushings are so non compliant that the tension rod has to flex and will cause fatigue cracks and failure. Rubber grips both moving parts while polly can't and one or the other will rub and chafe causing wear and squeaks. Rubber is the best sound and vibration isolator there is.

 

Rear shocks can just be replaced. Front struts, if the original, have internal valving in a hydraulic oil bath inside the strut tube. What I did with my Maxima struts was empty out the very thin watery oil and replace with much thicker motorcycle 20W hydraulic fork oil. Expensive Belray oil was $17 a liter and there is enough for doing three struts. Thicker oil is harder to push through the valving than thin and will firm up the action nicely.  On my 710 sedan I tried ATF and it works quite well also.  

[72240z]

All 4 can just be replaced with inserts and then the oil is just for heat transfer. ATF is def good for that task. 

Idk about all datsun but I know for the Z a nice balance can be had for using poly in some and rubber for others. As mike is saying for the TC rods you need to use rubber, but for things like sway bars I prefer poly. For the suspension hats, rubber, but for the diff mustache bar poly. With a stock driveline its best to keep rubber on the engine, trans and dif mounts because poly makes the whole car shake like crazy but with a build or more modern driveline poly can be used. Blah blah blah you get it... 

[gus280z]

Polly is too stiff for a street car. The tension rod bushings are so non compliant that the tension rod has to flex and will cause fatigue cracks and failure. Rubber grips both moving parts while polly can't and one or the other will rub and chafe causing wear and squeaks. Rubber is the best sound and vibration isolator there is.

 

Rear shocks can just be replaced. Front struts, if the original, have internal valving in a hydraulic oil bath inside the strut tube. What I did with my Maxima struts was empty out the very thin watery oil and replace with much thicker motorcycle 20W hydraulic fork oil. Expensive Belray oil was $17 a liter and there is enough for doing three struts. Thicker oil is harder to push through the valving than thin and will firm up the action nicely.  On my 710 sedan I tried ATF and it works quite well also.  

 

With all the cracks on my rubber bushings im going to give the poly bushings a shot, its not my daily so im not too worried about the vibrations. I belive that the shocks are tokico blues but im not sure and wont know till i take them off. I will be replacing them with the gas insert..ill try your atf in the strut housing trick.

All 4 can just be replaced with inserts and then the oil is just for heat transfer. ATF is def good for that task. 

 

Idk about all datsun but I know for the Z a nice balance can be had for using poly in some and rubber for others. As mike is saying for the TC rods you need to use rubber, but for things like sway bars I prefer poly. For the suspension hats, rubber, but for the diff mustache bar poly. With a stock driveline its best to keep rubber on the engine, trans and dif mounts because poly makes the whole car shake like crazy but with a build or more modern driveline poly can be used. Blah blah blah you get it... 

I got you, ill try the poly on the tc rods for now and let you know how it works out.

[datzenmike]

ATF does not have a specific 'weight' (I checked) It's around 7-12W. I have 20W fork oil in my goon and the next time I have them off I'm going to try 30W. Not saying 20W is too light, it's fine... just want to see what firmer action is like. My wife drives the sedan 710 with the ATF in it... again I tried it because I wanted to thy something thicker than the stock oil but not as stiff as my goon... and my wife drives it. I would recommend 20W over ATF.

 

 

Note that this only applies if the struts have never been off and the stock internal dampers removed and replaced by inserts. If they have, then all you can do is buy new inserts.

[72240z]

If you use poly on the tc rods its going to work out with one breaking lol. That ones not preference its a must. Google it and you will see it is common place and knowledge people cannot run poly on the tc. 

[datzenmike]

Here's a Dime Quarterly article on drilling holes in the polly bushings to 'soften them up'. I myself would never risk it and use good old rubber.

 

[gus280z]

Here's a Dime Quarterly article on drilling holes in the polly bushings to 'soften them up'. I myself would never risk it and use good old rubber.

 

This makes no sense , why would they sell poly bushings for the TC rod then? he mentions being lowered and this make me wonder how lowered he really was, was the car dumped? it sure makes me uncomfortable to think about loosing control at highway speeds.

[72240z]

How does it not make sense? They sell suspensions so stiff a person could ( and have) blown struts right through the hood. Slicks that if a person tried to run in the wet would be useless. Differentials so aggressive they seem to serve no purpose but to loose traction etc... They sell parts to suite a need. A track s30 with a adjustable, stronger TC rod and poly bushings makes sense. A person installing all poly bushings on their street car to be coolzors and snapping a stock TC rod is what makes no sense.

[ggzilla]

why would they sell poly bushings for the TC rod then? Because people buy them.

[datzenmike]

This makes no sense , why would they sell poly bushings for the TC rod then? he mentions being lowered and this make me wonder how lowered he really was, was the car dumped? it sure makes me uncomfortable to think about loosing control at highway speeds.

 

People are idiots. To look like a race car they put spoilers on that do nothing below 100 MPH, cross drill rotors that never get hot enough to need it, headers that cost $75 per HP gained, catch cans for motors that don't blow up, brake pads that only work when they are 800F hot, AN fittings for looks, adjustable coil overs that they never adjust. But hey... race car

 

If rubber is too pliable for a race car then polly is the answer. As for the tension rods... on a stiffened lowered race car I doubt they flex as much as a street car to begin with and are more than likely fitted with heim joints and are adjustable. Race car parts are regularly inspected and replaced... unlike street cars.

 

Failure is how we learn to make something better or that it doesn't work.

[thisismatt]

This makes no sense , why would they sell poly bushings for the TC rod then? he mentions being lowered and this make me wonder how lowered he really was, was the car dumped? it sure makes me uncomfortable to think about loosing control at highway speeds.

 

Because "they" (the manufacturer of the bushings) don't own, drive, or otherwise deal with Datsuns or many of the other cars they sell products for.  They sell a urethane bushing that fits, that's all.  Real world testing, however, proves them to be a poor choice.

[gus280z]

How does it not make sense? They sell suspensions so stiff a person could ( and have) blown struts right through the hood. Slicks that if a person tried to run in the wet would be useless. Differentials so aggressive they seem to serve no purpose but to loose traction etc... They sell parts to suite a need. A track s30 with a adjustable, stronger TC rod and poly bushings makes sense. A person installing all poly bushings on their street car to be coolzors and snapping a stock TC rod is what makes no sense.

 

definitely want to be coolzors here lol, but i dont want to kill my self or wreck my car while doing so :/

 

People are idiots. To look like a race car they put spoilers on that do nothing below 100 MPH, cross drill rotors that never get hot enough to need it, headers that cost $75 per HP gained, catch cans for motors that don't blow up, brake pads that only work when they are 800F hot, AN fittings for looks, adjustable coil overs that they never adjust. But hey... race car

 

If rubber is too pliable for a race car then polly is the answer. As for the tension rods... on a stiffened lowered race car I doubt they flex as much as a street car to begin with and are more than likely fitted with heim joints and are adjustable. Race car parts are regularly inspected and replaced... unlike street cars.

 

Failure is how we learn to make something better or that it doesn't work.

i just installed a spoiler and a front air dam....but im doing it for looks and performance, no im not tracking the car yet but who knows maybe one day....in the mean time i guess i need to source some rubber tc bushings.

 

Because "they" (the manufacturer of the bushings) don't own, drive, or otherwise deal with Datsuns or many of the other cars they sell products for.  They sell a urethane bushing that fits, that's all.  Real world testing, however, proves them to be a poor choice.

I wonder if anyone here has installed these

[datzenmike]

Perhaps 'idiots' was a bit harsh. My bad.

[thisismatt]

I wonder if anyone here has installed these

 

Urethane T/C rod bushings?  Yes, plenty of people have.  It's fairly clear to understand why urethane is a bad idea for a T/C rod bushing on any vehicle that drives on less than perfect pavement.

[gus280z]

Perhaps 'idiots' was a bit harsh. My bad.

Dont be, thats your opinion, but on a forum named "ratsun" i dont expect stock components to be used as mods. its all good in the hood  :thumbup:

[ggzilla]

> on a forum named "ratsun" i dont expect stock components to be used as mods

 

Think gain. We use what works and sometimes a stock part works best.

[boonedock saints]

> on a forum named "ratsun" i dont expect stock components to be used as mods

 

Think gain. We use what works and sometimes a stock part works best.

 

Ditto...goes for several other makes..NOT all aftermarket suspension upgrades are in fact upgrades, being dudes, it is our nature to be cool, or want to be bigger better then the next guy....total down fall...but its ok, makes for a great market in the automotive hobby.

 

Im sure no one here has made a un educated purchase when it comes to parts or cars...lol. I try to think of what my goal or need is...is this a pure track build? how much time is spent driving, road conditions, is the car a keeper..or..just all kinds of things.

 

But sometimes Ill just buy it because its cool....lol.

 

I agree with Gzilla, sometimes OEM suspension parts are better in the LONG run. A good complete suspension will all work together, almost like a motor, where as if one portion is too stiff or not stiff enough, could and does cause issue with the rest of the system.

 

But this is just my opinion...I still do dumb shit...lol

[datzenmike]

 

 

Later R-180 from a 720 4X4 on a 510 4.11 or 4.375 gears... or even an R200 4.11 from a later CA16ET S12.int earlier 510 or 610 IRS cars

 

EI matchbox or remote igniter dizzy and coil onto any earlier L series 6 cylinder.

 

620, 720,  z and zx or Maxima 5 speeds swapped into early cars and trucks.

 

There are lots of stock parts that can be used as an up grade mod on lesser or earlier cars.

[boonedock saints]

Great,

 

Dont be, thats your opinion, but on a forum named "ratsun" i dont expect stock components to be used as mods. its all good in the hood  :thumbup:

 

 

Later R-180 from a 720 4X4 on a 510 4.11 or 4.375 gears... or even an R200 4.11 from a later CA16ET S12.int earlier 510 or 610 IRS cars

 

EI matchbox or remote igniter dizzy and coil onto any earlier L series 6 cylinder.

 

620, 720,  z and zx or Maxima 5 speeds swapped into early cars and trucks.

 

There are lots of stock parts that can be used as an up grade mod on lesser or earlier cars.

 

points..and those examples you give are what makes this hobby/life fun and intriging...keeps you thinking sometimes...what other things fit?...lol

[gus280z]

Later R-180 from a 720 4X4 on a 510 4.11 or 4.375 gears... or even an R200 4.11 from a later CA16ET S12.int earlier 510 or 610 IRS cars

 

EI matchbox or remote igniter dizzy and coil onto any earlier L series 6 cylinder.

 

620, 720,  z and zx or Maxima 5 speeds swapped into early cars and trucks.

  

 

There are lots of stock parts that can be used as an up grade mod on lesser or earlier cars.

none of which came stock in a 280Z, this post is way off track by the way...........

[72240z]

Great,

points..and those examples you give are what makes this hobby/life fun and intriging...keeps you thinking sometimes...what other things fit?...lol

 

Correct response 

none of which came stock in a 280Z, this post is way off track by the way...........

Incorrect response

[gus280z]

Today I finished installing the front end  bushings and took the car out for a spin, day and night difference in terms of handling. So i decided to tackle the rear (or start on it). To my amazement the previous owner had installed tokico blues on the car but decided that the bump stops were not need. All 4 shocks had been bottomed out and blown. So i installed new kybs and new poly bumps on all 4 corners, cut 1 spring off the MSA front springs, (the rear had been replaced by the 240z so no need to cut springs in the rear. 

To my amazement the rear lower control arm spindle came out like butter, apparently the previous owner replaced those as well. the mustache bar bushings were a bit of a pain but nothing my drill could not tackle  :D all in all all the bushings have been replaced and its just a matter of bolting on the rear strut assemblies .

pics tomorrow :D

[ggzilla]

Oughta be an improvement!

[datzenmike]

Later R-180 from a 720 4X4 on a 510 4.11 or 4.375 gears... or even an R200 4.11 from a later CA16ET S12.int earlier 510 or 610 IRS cars

 

EI matchbox or remote igniter dizzy and coil onto any earlier L series 6 cylinder.

 

620, 720, z and zx or Maxima 5 speeds swapped into early cars and trucks.

 

There are lots of stock parts that can be used as an up grade mod on lesser or earlier cars.

 

none of which came stock in a 280Z,...

 

If you mean strictly 280z stock parts then a good example would be the later EI dizzy put into an early points car. The '77 and up 5 speed option is another.

 

The point is that there are lots of stock Datsun/Nissan parts that are an improvement on other years of cars. Only sensible to take advantage of them.

 

 

....this post is way off track by the way...........

You mentioned stock parts.

 

Dont be, thats your opinion, but on a forum named "ratsun" i dont expect stock components to be used as mods. its all good in the hood :thumbup:

As often happens one thing leads to another. Info changes hands, it's all good.