L16 wont start now

[jalen]

 i also disconnected the choke.?????????????????

 

If you dont pull it the choke its off already why would you disconnect it???????????

 

Realized it was getting stuck half way. the choke is locotad on the right side of the radio bezel just across from the cigarette lighter. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

Yes maybe use a shorter tube for the wire.

[prezucha]

Hello, hoping the NOOB's problem is solved but I have a very similar problem and maybe they are related.

I just picked up a '72 510 where PO couldn't get it running. Got it home and it would turn over fine, get plenty of gas in weber, would cough once in awhile but not start.  I fiddled with distributor checking for loose wires, point gap, etc.  Wires seemed good.  All of a sudden it started up and ran PERFECT!  Would rev and sounded like heaven.  Did this a few times... was happy.  Next morning it started after 1 sec of ignition!  I was happy.  2 minutes later it would die.  The ballast resistor was VERY hot.  When trying to start it would cough a bit.  And then it finally would start but barely at 200 rpm's!  Sounds like it was running on one cylinder.  Giving gas would do nothing.  Spraying starting fluid in carb would do nothing.  Choke is automatic but it was open. The crazy thing is when it started it ran GREAT!  I'm thinking maybe condenser?  I thought that when they go, they just go.  Maybe that is what happened.  Oh, I have the dual points and dual condensers.  They are slightly different shaped condensers.  I'm buying condensers this afternoon and try them.  Because the ballast resistor got VERY hot I'm hoping this would be a clue to some of you. Oh, there is an aftermarket coil too.  I think it's an Accel coil.  Thanks in advance for any advice!  Paul

[DanielC]

The Accel coil is too low resistance.  That will over heat the ballast resistor, and quickly burn the points.  Burnt points,= bad running.

Get a stock resistance coil back on there.  Start looking for a Matchbox distributor.

[banzai510(hainz)]

 

 

prezucha

photos would help. Key is why was car sold and take photos of the motor, back of alternator distributor set up ect...

 

points need a higher ohm coil. the stock one is 1.6 ohms and needs to be used with the ballast resistor.

 

clean connections first.

 

the main points will have the bigger condensor. I soemtimes dont even use the 2nd set of points. The one with the smaller condensor. I unplug the wire to it.

 

look at the points and see if burnt bad. if a accel super stock coil is in there they are ok. But if the really big SUPERCOIL then it will run more current and the ballst may get hot. If in dought go buy a stock coil. they cheap about 30$.

 

I would open the cap and look at the points while your trying to start and see what the poitns are doing. The higher current if the wrong coil will arch the points and the condensor cant keep up.

 

also make sure no wires are grounding out the points and everything is tight. I have put points in and then it wont spark at all. I just get the coil output wire place near chassis grouns and see if sparks while trying to start. if sparking then you know your points are working. But at low speed it might be Ok faster you(started) go it might cut out.

 

I would ck the fuse box ignition fuse and make sure clean.

 

self promotion for me, wont help your situation but you have a simple fix.

best is to update the ignition and this will help in reliability.

[prezucha]

Hi Hainz and DanielC!  Thanks for your quick response!  I will post some photos.  Here is what I have found out.  The coil is an Accel SuperStock.  I am getting good spark from coil output wire against ground.  I can see a spark on the points closest the block.  Nothing on the others.  The points not getting spark has the wire cut and wrapped back together.  Not sure why.  The points all look very good.   Since I'm buying new condensers I will also buy new points.  The car did start but runs like on one cylinder.  Cannot rev or anything.  Are the main points the ones closest to the coil side?  If these aren't getting spark could the  car run crappy on just the rear points?  And yes, I would like to make the conversion to the matchbox distributor.  Have not had luck finding one.  The car ran GREAT for the few minutes it ran.  Gas does "pop" out the top of the weber when I try to start it.  On a photo of the condensers from New-Datsun-Parts.com one condenser is skinny and long, the other shorter and fatter.  One of mine looks like the skinny one.  The other is similar to the skinny one just a bit bigger.  Certainly not like the OEM photo.  I guess, which set is the main ones?  Closest to the block or closest to the coil.  Here are some shots...  Thanks!  I cannot see how to add photos.  I have a brand new 12v coil for a 67 BMW 1600.  Would that work?

[ggzilla]

Dual points hurt performance, so use only one set.

 

Accel Superstock coil is OK for points system.

 

Have you adjusted the dwell? If the points are.more than a year old, the maintenance schedule says to replace them.

[prezucha]

Thanks ggzilla!  The points look brand new (except for the cut wire / respliced).  Coil output good spark.  Points with spliced wire not getting spark.  Car ran GREAT yesterday morning.  I think it's a loose connection somewhere, bad ground, or something like that.  Is this a good test for fuel?  As the car idles at 200 rpm's which is all it does now, if I spray starter fluid in carb and nothing happens this kind of means that fuel is NOT the problem.  Logically.  It should rev when I add starter fluid.  That's why I think it's electrical.  Not spark but something else.  How do I add photos?  I click the link above left of the <> and it asks for URL.  I want to browse to my folder of photos. 

[prezucha]

Just checked and the condenser that is feeding the points that are getting spark looks pretty new/shiny.  The other one that feeds the points not getting spark looks old/a bit crusty.  I will install the new condensers tonight and hopefully this is the problem. BUT the ballast resistor was VERY hot when the car was running on Monday...  So something is not right.  Should I get a standard coil?  Two of you say the Accel Superstock should be ok...  I guess too, how hot is hot? I could hold my finger on it but it was hot...

[ggzilla]

Replace the points and condenser, don't go by looks.

 

Check for loose connection where wire goes through side of distributor. Clean the connectors on the coil.

 

Check to see if ballast is wired correctly.

[prezucha]

will do!  Thanks!

[prezucha]

Hi all,

A bit of success!  I decided to remove the old condenser and points that weren't getting spark.  Guess what?  It started and runs great!  What I will do to absolutely be positive is tomorrow I will re-install the points and old condenser and test.  If it doesn't start, great!  I will take them out again and test.  It will run.  Now the question is should I bother installing the new second condenser and points?  You all seem to say no.  Does dwell change?  Open point gap a bit more?  I haven't tested on street yet as I got it only 2 days ago.  Won't stray far from home...  I'll see if ballast resister still gets hot.  Any comments?  Does this make sense?  Bad condenser?  If bad and hooked up, would it render the running poorly or not at all?  With it disconnected/removed, does that make sense that it runs?  Learning and happy!  Progress!  Thanks all!  Paul  I still want to post a few photos.  Not the greatest looking car but solid body and has potential!

[ggzilla]

Could be a short. So when you removed the 2nd set of points you removed the short.

 

Use a dwell meter.

[datzenmike]

Probably the condenser. Swap the old condenser in and see. The condenser acts like a small storage battery. There are pos and neg plates, actually two sheets of foil with a non conductor between them. When the points open in stead of arcing the electricity 'sees' the condenser as a path to ground and the +++ are attracted to the --- but can't get across the non conductor. It fills up like a battery charging instead of arcing at the points. (sorry this is very simplified) If there is an opening in the non conductor (I suppose in this case it actually IS a short) power continues to flow slightly and the coil magnetic field does not fully collapse resulting is a reduced spark or none.

[banzai510(hainz)]

As said before the accel super stock is fine, as GGzilla said also.

 

the 2nd set of ppoints one can tell if not set right if your going up a hill and in 3rd gear its starts cutting out and popping. Thats cause of the 3 gear switch. One can just unplugg the wire to 2nd set of points or find a single point dizzy and then install a Pertronix conversion or go Matchbox dizzy.

 

POINTS SUCK and have killed more Datsuns than head gaskets. Esp to people who dont understand points.

 

 

Hot ballast ? clean the contacks. this might help.

[prezucha]

Thanks all for your responses!  I really thought I had it removing the second set of points...  Here is what I did this morning:

 

1) start car - it started right up and revved fine!

2) Noticed I didn't have distributor cap clamps secured.  Secured them.  Ran fine!

3) Decided I wanted to prove to myself that the second points were the culprit.  Re-installed old points and old condenser.  Car wouldn't start.  Yah!

4) Replaced the old condenser with new condenser.  Car wouldn't start.

5) Removed old points and new condenser. Car wouldn't start.  What?

6) Checked things, didn't forget anything.

7) I'm not nuts.  I unclamped the distributor cap clamps, as I found it this morning.  STARTED!  Clamped them. Started!  I know, doesn't make sense.

8) Tried old points and new condenser.  Won't start.  Took them out.  Won't start.

9) Thought that MAYBE the bolt that tightened the connectors to the distributor now that the connectors were not there would tighten too far into distributor (the thickness of the two connectors) and maybe shorting out.  Unscrewed the bolt.  STARTED!  Screwed it back in. Started.  Maybe I am nuts.

10) Car died after 20 seconds.  I was checking timing, etc.  Now won't start. 

11) Removed gas line to see if fuel pump pumping.  Yes.  Big pulses of fuel.

12) Checked to see what weber it is.  32/36 DGEV.  Research says it needs a fuel regulator, pulse mechanical fuel pump no good.

13) When I turn it over now I get a cough every once in awhile.  Once it catches I can sort of keep it going by pumping gas pedal.  Then dies.

 

I really don't know if it's fuel related or electrical.  I was sure last night after removing the second points that that was it.  It started right up and was perfect!

 

Any leads to a matchbox?  You all convinced me this is the way to go!  Thanks!  Will tinker more this afternoon...

[ggzilla]

Don't fiddle with the matchbox. Find the problem now, not later.

 

Did you check the coil push-on connections? Resistor connections too. And make sure the wire routing in the distributor is clear.

[banzai510(hainz)]

soemtimes securing the points or the wire will cause it to go bad when changing the points

 

this confuses me:

Research says it needs a fuel regulator, pulse mechanical fuel pump no good.

 

 

 

I never ran a regulator on a stock mechanical fuel pump. If it pumps gas then it works.

 

is the carb squirting gas in the carb when you cycle the linkage. if yes then you know your carb is getting gas.

 

Soon at it dies take the center coil wire and ck for spark again. No spark the points are not triggering cause they gorunded or gone out of spec.

 

for the hell of it change out the fiuse incase the ends are getting loose inside and causeing you to loose 12volt to the coil. (can ck with volt meter the blk white wire going to the ballast resisitor)

 

I worked on a 520 once where the coil would spark when I had the cap off. but everytime I put the cap down and clipped it in the spark dissappeard. There was a wire loose inside that kept grounding out. 510 dual point might be sighlty different but ck it out

Points suck. It also happen to me swapping point run wont run then then the orginal point would run again.

[prezucha]

Thanks!  What I meant was I read that a mechanical pump is not good for Webers.  They require a more uniform 4 psi flow.  Or they work better with it.  Just what I read...  Anyway, I just went out after letting it sit for a couple hours and it fired up.  I had to pump the gas quite a few times once it fired to keep it from stalling.  Then when I kept it at 2500 rpm's it seemed ok.  As soon as I let off to let it idle it died.  Now seems more of a fuel flow issue.  I've checked all wires, connections.  I will check fuses in a bit.

 

And I agree ggzilla.  I want to find the issue and get the car running as is. It is not a daily driver so points are fine with me for now.  The distributor does have some wiggle side to side.  That may be a concern down the road but I don't think it's related to my current problem.  Thanks!

[banzai510(hainz)]

if this is a new weber you neeed to read the instruction again.

either the idle jet got plugged up or most likely the mixture screw needs adjustment along with the timming.

 

rough guess is tun the mixture screw all the way in(screw with tension spring on there) then screw it out about 1.5 to 2 turns and see if it starts to idle.

Theres writeup on how to adjust the mixture. of caose this should be after the choke is fully open

[ggzilla]

> I read that a mechanical pump is not good for Webers. They require a more uniform 4 psi flow.

 

Rubbish. They work perfect with the stock 3.8 psi pump.

[prezucha]

The weber certainly looks brand new!  Again when it does start it runs GOOD!  A clogged idle jet sounds promising...  I will install a new gas filter just in case...

[prezucha]

Man this is crazy.  After looking and looking I figured I'd better change the fuel filter.  The existing shows fuel but only about 1/2" at the bottom.  Went and got one, a cheapy for a 240z (didn't have any for 510 at O'Reilly), installed it, started it up and it took 30 seconds or so and the fuel filter filled all the way to the top and the car idled good.  It revved fine and I even timed it while it was warmed up idling at 1000.  More about that later...  So I was embarrassed as hell but at least I found one issue.  It ran for about 4 or 5 minutes.  Idling, revving, etc.  Then it conked out and acted just like before!  It really has a mind of its own and is really testing me. 

 

As far as timing goes, when I have the distributor pegged in the groove as far as I can turn it counter clockwise, I can just barely get the pointer to TDC (second mark from the left looking down from front of car) with timing light set to 15*.  It seemed to run good at this setting (for the 4 minutes) but I was wondering if this is normal.  ie: I cannot turn it further to say hit 13*...  It's at its limit.  My Haynes manual is coming soon so hopefully that will explain more. I also have the "How to Keep Your Datsun Alive" book coming.  This was highly recommended...  Thanks!

[prezucha]

P.S.  It acted as if it ran out of gas.  Fuel filter still full.  Gas gauge shows 1/2 full but don't know if it's accurate.  I assume fuel filter would be sucked dry if tank empty... Will get a couple gallons tomorrow.  Old fuel filter seemed pretty clean.  Go rust or anything noticeable. 

[ggzilla]

Yep, sounds like a speck of water is sitting in the carb and intermittently blocking the jet. I use a turkey baster to suck the fuel bowl dry, although removing the 32/36 and rinsing it upside down is more thorough.