510 Wagon Suspension (Rear)

[OriginalBourne03]

Hey everybody I'm new to the forum but just had a quick question that I'm pretty sure I missed ! But anyway I'm in the process of buying some rear Tokico HP Series and was wondering the stock leaf springs that came on the car is there a way to just eliminate those and get really good shocks! Or do I absolutely need to have both on there??

[Stupid_fast]

Without fabrication, no.

 

 

Leafs hold the axle to the frame.

 

Shocks are separate.

 

Sedan rear shocks are too long to work on a wagon, they will bottom out too soon.   Make sure what you're getting is for a wagon, or check AE86 rear / front camaro fitment shocks.  They bolt straight on. 

[OriginalBourne03]

Ae86 rear shocks like this...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYB-4-GR-2-SHOCKS-TOYOTA-COROLLA-AE86-86-87-/120650676904?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c17573aa8&vxp=mtr

 

Or front camero shocks like this

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-02-CHEVY-CAMARO-YELLOW-SPORT-GAS-SHOCKS-STRUTS-REAR-PAIR-SHOCK-ABSORBERS-NEW-/221115461993?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACamaro&hash=item337b823169&vxp=mtr

[Just Joel]

You need only the rear Ae86 shocks... you posted an ad for all for corners and you need front Camero shocks, not rears ;) mind the length, these will work for lowered and extremely lowered wagons (over 4") if your only slightly lower than stock just use the stock wagon application (still available)

[banzai510(hainz)]

stock leaf springs that came on the car is there a way to just eliminate those and get really good shocks! ?????

 

Show us how this will be done.!!!!!!!!!! whats the axle going to pushe the car?

 

if stock height or close just get a good gas shock as Joel mentioned.

 

 

Justgo to Rockauto.com and get a pair.

 

if you got Tokicos from soembody that actually fit a wagoon just get them. Remember order for a wagoon. in the rear. I never see Tokico rear avail in years if I ever saw them.

[Stupid_fast]

Ae86 rear shocks like this...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYB-4-GR-2-SHOCKS-TOYOTA-COROLLA-AE86-86-87-/120650676904?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c17573aa8&vxp=mtr

 

Or front camero shocks like this

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-02-CHEVY-CAMARO-YELLOW-SPORT-GAS-SHOCKS-STRUTS-REAR-PAIR-SHOCK-ABSORBERS-NEW-/221115461993?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACamaro&hash=item337b823169&vxp=mtr

 

 

Camaro fitment is late 70's FRONT shocks

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/39512-strut-insert-and-rear-shock-guide/

 

Search is your friend, already covered many times on this forum.

[datzenmike]

Holy fuck!!!

 

Leaf springs do at least three things. The support the weight of the car and determine the ride height. They also transmit the forward push of the axle to the body and slow the car down when brakes are applied. Last they laterally support the axle under the car so that on turns the car body doesn't slide off to the side.

 

There is no known way to make a shock absorber do any of this. Shocks do not support a car's weight. Remove them and the car sits the same. It simply acts like a damper to provide resistance to (more or less) up and down motion. Without shocks a car will bounce like a rubber ball after hitting a bump. In practice repeatedly hitting bumps can cause a spring resonance and the wheels can bounce right off the pavement... not at all desirable for control.

[Stupid_fast]

@datzenmike,  It was easier to just say NO.

 

:pirate:

[OriginalBourne03]

@datzenmike thanks for the detailed answer! @Stupid_fast thanks as well for the link. ive been doing some reading and actually read your build and i really liked the way you did your suspension set up with the Add A Leaf technique! That Was yours right? i think that will give me the ride height and the right amount of bounce that i want and need!

[tr8er]

If you choose to be a rebel and ignore this advise, please post a video of your first drive.  

[datzenmike]

 

@datzenmike,  It was easier to just say NO.

 

:pirate:

Yes I could but the original post shows somwe knowledge lacking about fundamental spring and shock function. You can skip to the next grade.

 

 

Hey everybody I'm new to the forum but just had a quick question that I'm pretty sure I missed ! But anyway I'm in the process of buying some rear Tokico HP Series and was wondering the stock leaf springs that came on the car is there a way to just eliminate those and get really good shocks! Or do I absolutely need to have both on there??

 

[OriginalBourne03]

I'm taking all the knowledge I can get and receive from people who have done it already!

[Stupid_fast]

@datzenmike thanks for the detailed answer! @Stupid_fast thanks as well for the link. ive been doing some reading and actually read your build and i really liked the way you did your suspension set up with the Add A Leaf technique! That Was yours right? i think that will give me the ride height and the right amount of bounce that i want and need!

Yep that was mine !!  ter

Its not a bad setup, but adding leafs like I do can encourage wheel hop issues as well.  I'm still playing around with it trying to find the right setup.

 

If you do start flipping leafs, BE CAREFUL!! I snapped two c-clamps in half by trying to flip a too stiff leaf.  Those get under a lot of tension, exploding packs release a ton of energy and enough to do unpleasant things.  One half of the c-clamp embedded in the wall.  Preferably use a press, and get a higher grade or thicker diameter center bolt to hold the pack together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I could but the original post shows somwe knowledge lacking about fundamental spring and shock function. You can skip to the next grade.

 

 

 

It was meant as a sarcastic compliment-  Your knowledge and explanations are invaluable. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

just get the shocks with overload springs then from rock auto. cheap enough if dont work then dont use them

[OriginalBourne03]

@stupid_fast I appreciate the heads up! I'll do a little more research to make sure I get the right set up and ride that I want! And yeah when you find that perfect set up let me know ill still be eager and interested to hear what you come up with!

[KyushaKai]

If you do start flipping leafs, BE CAREFUL!! I snapped two c-clamps in half by trying to flip a too stiff leaf.  Those get under a lot of tension, exploding packs release a ton of energy and enough to do unpleasant things.  One half of the c-clamp embedded in the wall.  Preferably use a press, and get a higher grade or thicker diameter center bolt to hold the pack together.

 

What leaf were you trying to flip?  I don't want to accidentally destroy my friend's garage...  I'm thinking of adding in an extra pair of flipped #2 leafs (2nd longest) with 2" blocks and leaf spring clamps instead of my current setup: 3" blocks with flipped overloads and leaf clamps.  I'm having huge problems with the rear being too soft (tons of diff on body contact), but I don't want to fork out $400+ for composite leafs just yet. 

 

I just want to make the ride more tolerable at the ride height it's at (don't want to raise it everrrr) without cutting into the cargo floor where it's visible.

[Stupid_fast]

@KyushaKai,

 

I had the config like this when i snapped the (NEW) 6" c-clamps ...

 

1 - truck add-a-leaf kit thats suppose to raise a truck by 2", flipped on top.

2 - main wagon leaf

3- truck main leaf with bushing eyelets cut off

4 - truck 2nd leaf

5 - truck flat 3rd leaf 

6 - wagon 3rd leaf ....

 

It was too much opposing forces.  Best way to flip leafs is to have some de-arched, or find a flat leaf from any truck to fit in the pack. 

 

If you're flipping leafs, the safest and easiest way to do it is with a hydraulic press !

[banzai510(hainz)]

if you want lower get soem 2in maybe 3 inch blocks but no more than 3 inch.

 

see if there as soem "gas a just" shocks

 

might be enought to keep it from bottoming

[OriginalBourne03]

Yeah I'm not trying to do any cutting into the cargo area! I agree with @Kyushakai on that! My buddy just told me the same thing abut the 3in blocks! Maybe I'll try that there is just so many options so many ways that people have done it, it makes it hard to pick and choose.lol but for rite now I think I wanna go the low budget way and then when I mowed enough lawns and collected enough cans and bottles maybe a kidney or two I can get some amazing aftermarket leafs! Idk we ll see ill try this for rite now

[KyushaKai]

Yeah I'm not trying to do any cutting into the cargo area! I agree with @Kyushakai on that! My buddy just told me the same thing abut the 3in blocks! Maybe I'll try that there is just so many options so many ways that people have done it, it makes it hard to pick and choose.lol but for rite now I think I wanna go the low budget way and then when I mowed enough lawns and collected enough cans and bottles maybe a kidney or two I can get some amazing aftermarket leafs! Idk we ll see ill try this for rite now

 

if you want lower get soem 2in maybe 3 inch blocks but no more than 3 inch.

 

see if there as soem "gas a just" shocks

 

might be enought to keep it from bottoming

 

2" is a safer bet unless you're willing to cut up and mod the trans tunnel.  This isn't so bad as it's under carpet, but it's just FYI.  I think 2" i would get some diff bump on huge potholes/dips.  3" blocks is when it started to get bad.  Make sure you get the proper pinion angle too.  

 

If you want made to order blocks, PM Just Joel here on the forums.  I can't say enough about how good his work is.

[OriginalBourne03]

2" is a safer bet unless you're willing to cut up and mod the trans tunnel.  This isn't so bad as it's under carpet, but it's just FYI.  I think 2" i would get some diff bump on huge potholes/dips.  3" blocks is when it started to get bad.  Make sure you get the proper pinion angle too.  

 

If you want made to order blocks, PM Just Joel here on the forums.  I can't say enough about how good his work is.

2" blocks instead okay okay! Thank you very much I really appreciate it! If I were to cut into the floor and mod the trans tunnel that will eliminate diff slap completely correct?

[banzai510(hainz)]

buy the 2inch first and try it out/ then lower the front 3 inch and see how it looks.

 

Believe me you dont want the diff slap in the rear. also do not remove leafs like aothers do then you gaet axle wrap.

 

You dont want to cut the tunnel unless your godd with metal. Most 510 guys arnt and looks like shit. make car worth less in the end. after going 2 inch maybe try 3 and get soem KYB Gas a jaust shocks to stiffen it up abit.

Then drive slow over big holes and steel plates.

[Silky_Johnson]

after going 2 inch maybe try 3 and get soem KYB Gas a jaust shocks to stiffen it up abit.

Then drive slow over ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IN THE ROAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Fixed.  And you forgot your exclamation points Hainz.  :rofl:

 

My goon has 3" blocks out back and super stiff lowering springs out front.  The back end has the stock springs and regular old shocks, and the PO cut up the rubber bump stops on the axle above the leaf springs to keep it from bottoming out prematurely.  There's still a little rubber there for just in case.

 

What the PO failed to consider was the weird bump stop thing that sits right above the differential.  With the weight of the car on the wheels, that dang differential bump stop is only an inch or so above the differential.  I guess what this means is that over any hard bumps, the rear end almost immediately bottoms out on the differential bump stop and then launches the back end up as a result.  I always feel like the back end is trying to buck me out of the car...  I'm afraid to take out the bump stop because then I'll probably just start getting differential slap directly on the car.

 

Remedies?  I'm thinking about flipping a leaf and then using 1" of 2" blocks to stiffen things up?  I'd like to get gas adjust shocks or those load adjusting shocks with springs built in to stiffen things up as well.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Jeff Hino(icehouse) did a wagon tunnel. Man it was nice. Then I heard the kid smashed the car. or sold it. Cant remember. I told him to charge alot more $$$$$ next time to these fuckers.So they want to take better care of their cars. Jeff does to much for cheap and people dont apprieate it.

 

OriginalBourne03 do 2inch and call it good.

[KyushaKai]

2" blocks instead okay okay! Thank you very much I really appreciate it! If I were to cut into the floor and mod the trans tunnel that will eliminate diff slap completely correct?

Sorry if I misled you, but cutting the trans tunnel won't help diff slap, but it would help to keep the drive shaft from rubbing on metal, which is a whole 'nother project it itself.  3" is about where I started getting problems with driveshaft rub and diff bumps.

 

You dont want to cut the tunnel unless your godd with metal. Most 510 guys arnt and looks like shit. make car worth less in the end. after going 2 inch maybe try 3 and get soem KYB Gas a jaust shocks to stiffen it up abit.

Then drive slow over big holes and steel plates.

 

Mines looks like shit hahaha.  I'm cool with my car being worth less though, because she's mine till I die.  Someday when i get better at welding, I'll probably revisit all of my old rust repair and metal mods and redo them.  Practice makes perfect (hopefully).

 

 

Fixed.  And you forgot your exclamation points Hainz.  :rofl:

 

My goon has 3" blocks out back and super stiff lowering springs out front.  The back end has the stock springs and regular old shocks, and the PO cut up the rubber bump stops on the axle above the leaf springs to keep it from bottoming out prematurely.  There's still a little rubber there for just in case.

 

What the PO failed to consider was the weird bump stop thing that sits right above the differential.  With the weight of the car on the wheels, that dang differential bump stop is only an inch or so above the differential.  I guess what this means is that over any hard bumps, the rear end almost immediately bottoms out on the differential bump stop and then launches the back end up as a result.  I always feel like the back end is trying to buck me out of the car...  I'm afraid to take out the bump stop because then I'll probably just start getting differential slap directly on the car.

 

Remedies?  I'm thinking about flipping a leaf and then using 1" of 2" blocks to stiffen things up?  I'd like to get gas adjust shocks or those load adjusting shocks with springs built in to stiffen things up as well.

 

Hm, my car has zero bumpstops in it, which is why I was getting crazy metal on metal.  I tweaked my suspension today and current rear specs are: flipped an extra #2 leaf (2nd longest leaf) that was cut down to fit the pack, 2" blocks with 2* of pinion angle correction, a pair of leaf spring clamps, KYB adj Camaro shocks, and raised tunnel.  On the ride test ride around with my buddy, as well as the ride home I had zero metal on metal contact.  Unfortunately from my previous set up, it did raise the car just about 3/4", but it was noticeably stiffer.  I'm gonna try to throw my 3" blocks back in and see if the current spring set up is stiff enough to have the car sit low and not bang around.

 

Anyway, long winded post.  Cliff notes:  added and flipped spring = lower and stiffer = good.  If I were in your shoes, I'd probably add and flip a spring with a smaller block to suit your taste.