where to buy a legitimate weber?!

[nerdistmonk]

Turning the screw out richens the mixture, turning it in (tighten) should be leaning it out, so by my having it at 3 1/2 turns out the carb isnt adequate for the engine, and even with a bigger jet it isnt going to have the get up and go compared to what a true synchronized two barrel will dish out.

 

Mike is right bigger isnt always better but comparing a single barrel to a dual barrel is like comparing an anthill to a molehill, the 38/38's advantage isnt the jets its the being a functional two barrel that helps, the jets are moderately bigger but it isnt so extreme as to flood the truck out, also your screw settings are for a 38/38, the 32/36 is set to two turns out by default, the 38/38 should be 1.5 turns i believe.

 

 

It will be a while before i can afford getting another carb, so mine cant be sold as im still using it.

[KlassicMotion]

Turning the screw out richens the mixture, turning it in (tighten) should be leaning it out,

 

Not on a Weber.

 

Other carbs yes.

[nerdistmonk]

???  :confused:  google is your friend? anyways once i got some extra cash i will go with a 38/38 then put my 32/36 up for sale

 

A new fuel pump also for this thing as i dont trust the one i have, trying to decide how many gph i need, i was thinking 30 was plenty but failing that i can always put a 90gph pump on it.

(chug! chug! chug! chug! :rofl: )

 

 

EDIT: One other thing, this was a redline weber kit, it was already jetted for a z24, so with that being said, its works fine but i want some extra fries with my cheeseburger...lol, truck feels a bit short-changed.

[KlassicMotion]

Not on a Weber.

 

Other carbs yes.

 

At least the Weber 38 is out for lean...

[bryant2482]

thanks for the info klassic! ill let you know how things go

[KlassicMotion]

Cool

[cruznude]

Look, a 32/36 would be just fine and probally all you would need.  But if you really want a 38 well, be sure that its what your needs are for now and the future.  These are costly decisions.

[nerdistmonk]

there is barely a $40 difference between the two, its only costly if he does like me and buys a 32/36 then ends up underwhelmed, Your carb needs to at least be big enough to tune down for the engine, mine is tuned way up over its max settings, it has the acceleration of a moped, you can floor it and dont expect no butt-puckering, the second barrel does make it accelerate faster but its mainly to attempt passing someone (i stress attempt since it doesnt accelerate fast enough to help much, nothing makes me more nervous than a slow moving pass, i like to be around and gone, the only other truck ive had that was this slow was a Jeep Comanche which was their answer to this truck, it was even slower and wouldnt go up a steep hill with me in it, dead serious thats what 55hp gets you)

 

It isnt just the jetting, the big thing is the 38/38 is a real fully functional two barrel, thats what makes the huge difference, sure you save $40 in price but you lose a barrel in the process (the 32/36 has two barrels but only opens the second barrel if you punch it to the floor, it was for passing)

 

a 38/38 is on my Christmas list big time, my 32/36 cost me $289 + tax, a 38/38 is $320 so you might as well just get the recommended carb for the z24 (weber recommends the 38 outlaw over the 32/36)

[nerdistmonk]

Heres a followup, i decided to go on a 3am drive with it, just now, once it warmed up it was quite fast (as expected) this truck could easily hit 110 mph, but the problem that still remains is the 0 - 45 mph acceleration, the truck can scoot after it gets past a certain point.

 

So idk, if one was in the city they would want the best acceleration to be during 0 - 40 mph, this thing opens up when you get it in 4th gear (and floor it) that being the other issue, i shouldnt need to floor it, whats the point of a throttle if the only option is wide open? and let me mind you ive owned 6 or 7 vehicles, with the exception of the jeep, they all took off faster than this truck does. I wouldnt see what would cause this truck to be so different other than me putting too small of a carb on it.

 

The other thing i think that hurts all of the trucks not just mine is the gearing, i just dont think they are geared to be acceleration friendly,

 

So pretty much take it all under consideration, like the other fella said its costly, but i dont think there is a wrong decision to be made here, both carbs will function just fine, i mean the 32/36 works great, im not saying it doesnt work or anything, it just dont have any oomph to it and i would think i would have more throttle response than this i mean i have never owned a vehicle where flooring it was acceptable behavior. So the choice is yours in the end.

[KlassicMotion]

Monk, Thanks for posting your follow-up thoughts. I was working on a rebuttal for your first set of thoughts from today. I will just move on now.

 

I do still have to ask, Where did you find this info: "you might as well just get the recommended carb for the z24 (weber recommends the 38 outlaw over the 32/36)" ?

 

Weber's website says the 38 is recommended for the Jeep 6cyl, but nothing else that I can see. The Jeep 6cyl is at it's smallest a 3.2L.

 

And where are you finding the 38 for $320? The cheapest I see it for is $339.95.

 

....Oh wait, I'm guessing your looking up the manual choke versus the electric choke?....

[nerdistmonk]

No that was for the DGEV and yes now it is at $339.95 if your looking on ebay (prices went up since i did the conversion, even the 32/36 is higher), and the info on weber recommending the 38 comes from the man who wrote the instructions for the z24i conversion i used to put the 32/36 on my engine. It isnt a bolt in replacement on the z24i, holes have to be tapped on the manifold, a guy on nico club i believe by the name of frankie pintado made the instructions.

 

He had spent alot of time talking to weber in the attempt to get a carb adapter for the z24i's intake and save the trouble, in the process of doing so they had said that the 38 outlaw was their recommendation and that they would not make a carb kit for the z24i (idk why), i had his entire thread printed off and was using it as a roadmap in january since i hadnt done anything like this before. He ran the 38 outlaw on his, and kept the factory EFI fuel pump and computer (rigged up some sort of relief for the pressure), i diverted from his plans and made my own fuel system instead. Anyways he documented 20,000 miles on that carb before finally ending the thread and even passed emissions without the smog hardware (he put his z24i breather box on the weber to hide the modifications)

 

Thats where most of this info came from, without those instructions the truck would be in the junkyard right now

 

I've drove my truck with this 32/36 on here for 7 months now, a rebuttal unless it shines light on something new wouldnt help since first hand experience beats theoreticals everytime. Engine Sizes and fuel consumption rates look nice on paper but in the end it dont work out like that, it isnt the amount of fuel, its how its delivered, getting fuel to the carb is half the equation. My problem is the 32/36 doesnt deliver fast enough, the 32/36 is a huge upgrade for the 1.6L and the 1.8, 2.0 engines (L Family), as such you notice all the L engines usually have a weber or 3 attached to them. (why 3 of them or two of them, even my engine has an option for dual webers, why would you need two if the 32/36 works so well), Also as for jetting, i bought the redline weber version, as opposed to just a factory weber, it was already jetted for the z24 engine.

 

My final line on the matter is this: Neither carb would be a bad decision theres no wrong decision here to be made, they both work, though i feel the 38 outlaw would perform much more pleasantly in the way he and I are wanting which is in the short game (0 to 40 mph), the 32/36 is quite quick once you get into 4th gear it can really pick up the speed but on the short game it barely keeps up with other vehicles in traffic, the throttle response just isnt there, i have to floor it to stay moving fast enough.

 

On a side note: I am almost certain the moon stopped for a while, it had to have stopped because yesterday the moon was at the same point in the sky at 6pm and now i walk outside at 3am and theres the moon in the same spot, so either it made the fastest lap ever recorded around the earth or the thing stopped somewhere and waited, take that as crazy but i am being dead serious...sigh if this were any other year i would almost be surprised, if i go outside to get the mail and a kitty cat said "good morning" i would likely say the same in return and go back inside :confused: )

 

Anyways take care and good night (or good morning as it were) im off to bed.

[Z-train]

Below is my dyno chart for my LZ-23.WITH a 32/36.So much for the big carb theory.A Z-24 will be a Rosie O'Donnell size pig with a 38 on it.

 

 

[nerdistmonk]

Its amusing everyone looks at that the 38/38 like its a 4 barrel monster that sucks 2 gallons a minute to work.

 

As for the above mentioned dyno numbers, im just going to say fooey to all that gobblity gook, im happy that your engine works well for you on a 32/36 (Im assuming thats what all that stuff on those papers mean, you could have just said your vehicle is fast and peppy). I never said the 32/36 was garbage, i also said...wait for it that it works exceptionally well on L engines and that it works fine on the z engines it just doesnt have much throttle response, theres no kickdown when you engage the second barrel no sudden acceleration it just laps up all the extra fuel like it isnt even there (which means the carb isnt big enough). You can argue all day long but that wont change the fact that when i go to town today, i will be mashing the pedal to the floor at every stop light and no there isnt any factor i could have done to make it do this, i even stripped the fuel system down to just a pump/filter with a direct line to the carb, so it isnt a pump problem (brand new pump, new filter). Its just the carb, its the carbs responsibility to deliver that fuel to my engine.

 

I could see you coming in and debating that a 4-barrel would be too big (even though i see datsuns on here with 2 carbs or 3 carbs which is the same thing.....) but coming in here to fight a fierce holy war over a carb that is marginally bigger and its main advantage is both barrels open simultaneously is just a waste, $50 says when i get my 38/38 i dont notice any difference in fuel usage, so far ive burned a quarter tank going 25 miles, thats what happens when you run a carb way past its recommended settings, if i had a big enough carb so i can pare it down instead of cranking it up my fuel usage would be better.

 

For me the 32/36 is the pig, if you have to floor it all the time to get any real short game acceleration then those so called fuel savings go out the window, a 38/38 will do the same stuff as a 32/36 with only half the throttle (i.e normal), and if i go full throttle there should be some real acceleration there. Flooring it is not a good thing, needing to do this shows a deficiency somewhere, gutless or not the z24 should be screaming if i floor it. I would toss out a bran flakes analogy but meh

 

and even if you still think im full of it (and you know you do) then theres frankie pintado you can go read through his thread on nicoclub, 35,000 miles and his truck is still alive and well? sounds like the 38 works just fine. Matter of fact he warned against using the 32/36 (and he was right), I went a step farther than frankie, i put a real fuel system in mine and took the computer out of the equation so mine would be even better than his on a 38.

 

Anyways this is my last reply to this unless someone has a revelation that makes the 32/36 a monster. All the talking points have been mentioned and their just isnt anything to add. If you vehicle runs the way YOU want it to run then thats all that matters, this is another one of those things that come down to feel, those dyno numbers dont tell me nothing about how it feels.

[Z-train]

"As for the above mentioned dyno numbers, im just going to say fooey to all that gobblity gook

"

gobblity gook? Try cold hard proven facts. The point is that a 32/36 will provide enough flow for MOST street engines on this board.The 38 just isn't needed. PERIOD.If you want it-great.

 

Real fuel system? As opposed to what? One that comes from the factory and meets 99% of the demands?

 

And the hell with what "Frankie"says.My numbers prove otherwise.

 

And no 4-BBL should be on anything other than a"V" motor.

[datsunaholic]

The DGV is designed for better overall driving.  The DGS isn't intended as a standard street carb.  It's all down to preference.  32/36 carbs have been used successfully in 4.0L engines.  38s can be made to work with 1.6 or smaller.  It all comes down to what you want.  You might like the hair-trigger feel of a 38.  You might like the better mileage and smoother control of a 32/36.  Hell, you can mix and match by swapping linkages and get a hybrid if you know what you're doing. 

 

I have both.  They behave different enough. 

[nerdistmonk]

meh to say the least im going to investigate into this jetting stuff and give the 32/36 a fair shot before i dog it completely. As long as the jets are worth it, the racetep guy said $60 for a jetting kit seems a little high to me.

 

White colored spark plug tips is running lean correct?

[KlassicMotion]

Check around first, I noticed for the 38 there were a couple different kits that offered a little different assortment.  I looked to see what jets my carb had to see which kit would benefit me the most.  I can't remember who I bought mine from, but he was on eBay and had a link to his website that saved me a couple bucks. 

[nerdistmonk]

ebay jetting kits are also $59, i found this in ratsun

 

Main Venturi: 26/27
Aux Venturi: 3.5/3.5
Main Jet: 140/135
Em Tube: F50/F6
Air Corr Jet: 165/160
Idle Jet: 55/50
Pump Jet: 50
Needle Valve: 2.0

 

I am going back to that old nicoclub thread that i used to do the conversion, i think this was brought up there and a jetting guide may have been posted (link might be dead though :crying: )

It would help if i knew what i was doing half the time, being so spontaneous does have its disadvantages, but being random is fun with nerdy!™ :w00t: :ninja: :confused: :poke: :angel: :thumbup:

 

edit: if anyone knows of a helpful guide or something im looking for one, otherwise im going to take a wild guess that i need to make as many of those numbers bigger as i can until my spark plug changes color (preferably towards the darker spectrum). meh ill just slap the biggest jets in this kit on it, that should solve it! :ninja:

[nerdistmonk]

ok so an update, took a crash course in jetting this beast, it will cost me $60 sadly i dont see it being cheaper, i got a guide from a 4 cyl toyota that has photos of the 32/36 and more importantly what it looks like when you pull it apart and he listed the size jets he went to so i have something,

 

Mine is at 55/50 i think so i will go to 75/65 idle

 

then the main jet i will go to 145/150?

 

the rest of it im going to ignore. If i didnt know any better i would say redline underjets these on purpose so they can sell the jet kit, I got a good feeling about this, i think it may just fix this thing, if it dont im punting it across the yard....erm not really since i need it but hey bigger jets sure cant hurt it. If it ran any leaner dust would be lofting from the spark plug holes.

[datzenmike]

Turning the screw out richens the mixture, turning it in (tighten) should be leaning it out, so by my having it at 3 1/2 turns out the carb isnt adequate for the engine, and even with a bigger jet it isnt going to have the get up and go compared to what a true synchronized two barrel will dish out.

If you read the tuning instructions you'll see that if you have to turn the adjustments too far then it's your JET that's too small (or too big) not the carb.

 

 

Mike is right bigger isnt always better but comparing a single barrel to a dual barrel is like comparing an anthill to a molehill, the 38/38's advantage isnt the jets its the being a functional two barrel that helps, the jets are moderately bigger but it isnt so extreme as to flood the truck out, also your screw settings are for a 38/38, the 32/36 is set to two turns out by default, the 38/38 should be 1.5 turns i believe.

 

 

On the face of it no, a one barrel does not compare to a two barrel. You are used to EFI where you can floor it in 5th gear at an idle and the vehicle just drives away. Try that with a 38/38 and it will fall flat on it's face even the 32/36 will likely stutter. This is because there is no ECU figuring out the proper mixture. The carb does this mechanically using a venturi to create vacuum to suck fuel out and into the air stream. Too big an opening drops the manifold vacuum to pretty much zero and the air passing through the venturi(s) is so slight that it can't suck fuel. The accelerator pump helps with a shot of raw fuel but once used up the motor will nose dive. A 32/36 is less likely to do this because the one barrel is smaller so more air flow through a smaller place. Then as more air is needed a second barrel opens. The 38/38 is intended for a larger displacement motor or a racing motor where it never has to drop down to low speeds. It can be used on the street but it has limitations.

 

....and the info on weber recommending the 38 comes from the man who wrote the instructions for the z24i conversion i used to put the 32/36 on my engine. It isnt a bolt in replacement on the z24i, holes have to be tapped on the manifold, a guy on nico club i believe by the name of frankie pintado made the instructions.

 

He had spent alot of time talking to weber in the attempt to get a carb adapter for the z24i's intake and save the trouble, in the process of doing so they had said that the 38 outlaw was their recommendation and that they would not make a carb kit for the z24i (idk why), i had his entire thread printed off and was using it as a roadmap in january since i hadnt done anything like this before. He ran the 38 outlaw on his, and kept the factory EFI fuel pump and computer (rigged up some sort of relief for the pressure), i diverted from his plans and made my own fuel system instead. Anyways he documented 20,000 miles on that carb before finally ending the thread and even passed emissions without the smog hardware (he put his z24i breather box on the weber to hide the modifications)

 

If he had been trying even a little, all he (frankie pintado) had to do was get a Z24 intake and throw the Z24i intake away. The Z24 intake takes an Hitachi carb that a weber could replace.

 

He may have made it work but his idea of work may be different to everyone else's. For one, perhaps this is a full race or highway truck. Maybe it has other modifications. Perhaps in town driving isn't a factor for him.

 

I just can't believe weber would recommend a 38/38 for a Z24 unless the question was asked in such a way as to tilt the answer that way... such as "What's the biggest two barrel monster racing carb do you recommend for my modified Z24?"

 

Weber doesn't make a carb kit for the Z24i for the same reason they don't for the 300zx... they are EFI. It's not a simple bolt on conversion to another carb from the factory one.

 

I've drove my truck with this 32/36 on here for 7 months now, a rebuttal unless it shines light on something new wouldnt help since first hand experience beats theoreticals everytime. Engine Sizes and fuel consumption rates look nice on paper but in the end it dont work out like that, it isnt the amount of fuel, its how its delivered, getting fuel to the carb is half the equation. My problem is the 32/36 doesnt deliver fast enough, the 32/36 is a huge upgrade for the 1.6L and the 1.8, 2.0 engines (L Family), as such you notice all the L engines usually have a weber or 3 attached to them. (why 3 of them or two of them, even my engine has an option for dual webers, why would you need two if the 32/36 works so well), Also as for jetting, i bought the redline weber version, as opposed to just a factory weber, it was already jetted for the z24 engine.

Multiple carbs are usually on very modified motors (big lift/duration cams, high compression, header, over size valves and ported head) that can take advantage of them that's why. For an average stock motor there is no advantage (or very little) to side drafts.

 

My final line on the matter is this: Neither carb would be a bad decision theres no wrong decision here to be made, they both work, though i feel the 38 outlaw would perform much more pleasantly in the way he and I are wanting which is in the short game (0 to 40 mph), the 32/36 is quite quick once you get into 4th gear it can really pick up the speed but on the short game it barely keeps up with other vehicles in traffic, the throttle response just isnt there, i have to floor it to stay moving fast enough.

Your D21 is heavier than a carbed 720 and also has 3.70 gears which is great for mileage, crap for performance.

 

 

Its amusing everyone looks at that the 38/38 like its a 4 barrel monster that sucks 2 gallons a minute to work.

 

i even stripped the fuel system down to just a pump/filter with a direct line to the carb, so it isnt a pump problem (brand new pump, new filter). Its just the carb, its the carbs responsibility to deliver that fuel to my engine.

 

 so far ive burned a quarter tank going 25 miles, thats what happens when you run a carb way past its recommended settings, if i had a big enough carb so i can pare it down instead of cranking it up my fuel usage would be better.

 

For me the 32/36 is the pig, if you have to floor it all the time to get any real short game acceleration then those so called fuel savings go out the window, a 38/38 will do the same stuff as a 32/36 with only half the throttle (i.e normal), and if i go full throttle there should be some real acceleration there. Flooring it is not a good thing, needing to do this shows a deficiency somewhere, gutless or not the z24 should be screaming if i floor it. I would toss out a bran flakes analogy but meh

8 MPG should set off alarms right there. You should be capable of close to 300% better!!!! Webers are very sensitive to over pressure and should be run around 3 PSI fuel pressure. 8 MPG is what you might get if your choke were stuck permanently on or the float stuck and the carb flooding. Something is seriously wrong here and should be fixed first before calling it a pig.

 

 

 

[nerdistmonk]

Thanks for the reply mike, it certainly isnt flooding, the engine is so lean theres dust coming out of the spark plug holes (exaggerating)

 

and yes that was an oversight of mine when i said too many turns = too small carb, i tried to elaborate better in my other posts, your right too many turns = under-jetted

 

also i dont expect alot from my truck, but i do expect it to be somewhat peppy, peppy is not a term i would use to describe this truck as of now.

 

As for the frankie pintado truck that has the 38, he put 55,000 miles on it total so the 38 must work well or he obviously wouldnt have made it that long (the thread goes from 2009 until 2012)

as for why he didnt change the intake, the same exact reason i didnt, you guys talk like parts are just laying all over for me to get, lest you forget you had to send me a part from canada the rest had to come from california, that is 2,300+ miles away from my home, and if i do not know what i need, how can i order it (i missed that pedalstal didnt i?)

 

as for why my mileage is lousy, being under jetted and constantly flooring it to compensate may have a hand in that, i feel once i do jet it properly it should be very different.

So until its jetted right, yes it is a pig, the truck that is. Carb isnt flooding, that dingleberry isnt stuck and my choke is manually controlled.

 

edit: as for the over-pressure, i called racetep, they sale pumps and redline parts, they are the ones who claim you can run the p4070 90gph pump unregulated, and what he said was he has been running webers for 20 years with that particular pump, they have never had a flooding issue or a problem out of their carbs. I trust that because he talked me out of ordering a new fuel pump and told me to rejet it, it usually isnt good business to talk a customer out of a $109 fuel pump.

 

edit2: i just bought a jet kit, $59, that shall hopefully fix this mess

edit3: my trucks curb weight should be the same as a 720 (not counting what was removed that is), the D21 is a 720, the differences are mostly cosmetic, different rear end also, as mentioned before the 1986 Model year 720 came as both EFI and carb, (the real year of my truck is actually october 1985, you know that whole perpetual 1 year ahead crap to make it seem futuristic and new), i looked my curb weight up seems to be 2755lbs? seems pretty close to the 720, and mine is likely 200lbs lighter than that because i dropped alot of stuff off of it.

 

Thanks again for your reply mike.

[Guest Rick-rat]

   Another one here wanting advice and won"t listen, (remember whitey and his disc brake conversion problems).

[KlassicMotion]

You jet kit should come with a set of instructions, that are better than the instructions that cam with the carb.... If it's at all like my 38 and 38 jet kit.

 

One of the things I picked up from the instructions is that it says if you have to move up two idle air jet sizes, then that is equal to one main jet size..... 

 

I'd suggest taking it one step at a time.  One main jet size to start with and see what you get.  Everything is easy to get to.  I know you don't want a fuel pressure regulator, but I noticed a difference when I put one in....

[robopineapple]

I recently drove a stock 510 with only a 32/36 on it and it was fine, with a slight bog at low speeds or gears.

i have a 32/36 carb on my stock l20b in my 510 wagon and it is a blast to drive. i dont know if its any fast compared to others, but its got quite a bit of umph. i would suggest the 32/36 weber 

[nerdistmonk]

I said numerous times the 32/36 works a treat on the L series engines, all the people coming in to defend their 32/36 have what....L series engines. Its simple physics a bigger engine needs more fuel, so it will have to be rejetted for my engine to use it.

 

that slight bog that mike mentions, its a significant bog on my truck for the first 3 gears, the gearing is the only reason it picks up speed at all, it just as fuel hungry but the gears are lighter towards the end so it gets by better, my spark plugs look like the sahara desert, no adjusting is going to fix it, i got the mix screw as far out as you can safely go (4 1/2 turns or so) its dying of thirst, rejetting it will fix it, im sure of that, i never said the 32/36 was bad, never said it wasnt usable, it works on my truck but it isnt all there yet, i also told the op to make his own choice because both carbs will work just fine.

 

it also seems silly to have him get a 32/36 if he would have to rejet as soon as he gets it cause the rejet kit + the cost of the carb are more than the cost of the 38/38 and it wont need rejetted it will be plenty big for the z22 or z24 engine, i cant even remember which friggin engine he has at this point cause he bailed like 300 posts ago. :rofl: