NismoZRS Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Hey, hows it going everyone, ive been info gathering from this forum for a couple years now, but things are going to light so i needed to make a post.. I'm going to be rebuilding my KADE in my S13 coupe this spring and I've been wanting to do an N/A high compression build with ITB's for the last few years.. I have no interest in boosting, already have another 240 for that.. For internals I'm going with KA24E pistons 11.1 to 1, 248/248 stock cams, evergreen timing chain kit w/ oil pump, and new crank bearings.. I'm buying GSXR 1000 ITB's and cutting the stock manifold runners 5" from the flange and attaching with couplers like most people do.. Here's the kicker, I'm going to use a Q45 MAF and tune it with my SAFC 2. To do this, im building an aluminum box plenum where the filters would go and having it draw air from a 3" inlet, reaching from MAF and 5" Filter... I'm shooting for 165-180 whp from this running 93 octane, this will probably become possible when I can afford a chromoly flywheel and 1-piece driveshaft.. The question I'm poseing is, how would i get this to idle without the stock idle air controller?? If i keep the throttle cracked open, it plays tricks on the ECU, so when you stomp on the gas just for a sec, it dips down and revs up, creating a lag in throttle response (also it takes a little longer for the revs to drop).. I've been thinking maybe drilling small holes in the ITB's, then drilling them bigger until it idles where i like, but thats a little too crude and I see problems from that.. Anyone have a better suggestion?? Real quick pic of my car.. (sort of my intro thread lol) Quote Link to comment
NismoZRS Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Pretty much the same set-up I'm going for.. Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 You plan on using a stock ECM? Quote Link to comment
NismoZRS Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 You plan on using a stock ECM? Yes, im doing it with an airbox and MAF so i can avoid having to use megasquirt.. I'd like to be able to tune specifically with my SAFC and wideband.. Quote Link to comment
mcmlxxxv Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 you have idle air control on some bike throttles , that you can wire up to your ecm , I used to have a Megasquirt on my engine tho.. I dont know if you already bought your throttles but if not read this : http://www.jenvey.co.uk/jenvey/throttle-body-selection-with-jenvey-dynamics this page was really helpful selecting my throttle option . Size/length/butterfly position can change a lot on a setup reliability and performance. hope this help , :) Quote Link to comment
NismoZRS Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Yes this helps me out a lot, thank you.. I haven't bought them yet, but the Suzuki GSXR throttle bodies have the air idle already on it.. I'd like to run open throttles but I'm not sure that I would wanna run a standalone fuel management to convert to MAP sensor.. Using a MAF is far more simple but the airbox plenum somewhat tones down the effectiveness of having ITB's in the first place.. Quote Link to comment
mcmlxxxv Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 if you have a good tuner , it's pretty easy to go MS3 with GM sensors ,plus it's pretty affordable compared to other standalone and you will be able to squeeze more hp from your engine. key to success is to read and take your time :) you wont regret . ;) Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 MAF is easier but MSNS is superior and I feel like in the long run cheaper. Plus your going to get more gain out open stacks then an air box. With an air box your really only helping response but with open stacks your gaining hp higher i the band AND response. You will also end up with options for spark too which again will help across the board. I'm using 2 sets of GSXR tb's for my own project (L28). Quote Link to comment
NismoZRS Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 The biggest thing for me is that MS is pretty confusing and seems to have a high learning curve.. SAFC is so simple and i can tune it myself.. If i could understand megasquirt 3, i'd probably have no problem using it.. I just like being able to know about everything in my car and work on it myself and not have to bring it to a shop everytime i need something changed.. I would however like to fully reap the benefits for open stacks, so it's really tempting either way.. Is there a beginners guide out there that is slow enough for me?? I'm not the sharpest kid you'll ever meet.. Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Your not a lone man its very confusing at 1st. I have done piggy backs, daughter boards, after market set ups but nothing like msns. It seems a lot more complicated even after reading on it for some time. There are guides, there are a ton of write ups even one for the ka24de form someone who did the bike itb swap with msns. Give yourself more credit take your time and try to learn a little on it. It's worth it. If for w/e reason you can't hack it the air box option is always there. Quote Link to comment
mcmlxxxv Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 this is where you need to read on this http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html It's almost a step by step guide to success (like a revell kit level 43....) Quote Link to comment
q-tip Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I have a similar plan in the works, high comp, itbs and slightly larger cams. I will be going the standalone ecm route(i just like the itbs without a plenum). Interested to see how this thread turns out Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Stay away from the SAFC, stock ECM, and 5 throttle bodies. MS will serve you better. More versatile. Do it, or don't. Not in between. Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Stay away from the SAFC, stock ECM, and 5 throttle bodies. MS will serve you better. More versatile. Do it, or don't. Not in between. 5 eh? lol Really though, there are plenty of guides, just read read read http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/240sxmegasquirt-standalone-for-the-ca-engine.html Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Derp. Read it wrong. Q45 MAF is not a throttle body. *noted. Lol. 2 hrs of sleep is 3 days does funny things to a guy. Quote Link to comment
NismoZRS Posted February 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 So much to read!! O_o I understand a little bit more and i can see how some people said going with MSPNP is really tempting but i dont have $800 to spend on that LOL (but it does keep the wiring nice and neat) Thanks for the posts and links tho guys, its definitely a help and a step in the right direction!! I think i'll probably attempt this with MS2 + Stim, it will just take longer than i planned but most important to me is getting it right.. and the sound of open stacks WOT, i like that a lot lol.. I think what makes the most sense right now is doing the rebuild first and dial it in with the SAFC and wideband I already have installed.. Then build my ITB/Manifold, study a lot more about MS, build the MS2 components, and then install them all at once.. It might not be until later this summer but I'll make a build thread on it when it comes time Quote Link to comment
mcmlxxxv Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 subscribed Quote Link to comment
datson4life Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Im aiming for a similar setup, this one get finished? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 He was around for 9 days and never came back. I'm going to blah, blah, blah... Talk is cheap. Quote Link to comment
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