Weird noise from belhousing/engine? with vid

[hobbes_the_cat]

My 510 is making a weird noise from the bellhousing area. It has a LZ21 with a dogleg 5speed. about 200 miles on new pressure plate, disc, T/O bearing that was greased before install, and a new pilot bushing. Have you ever heard thisnoise before? Pretty sure I need to pull the trans but I want opinions on where to look for the problem. Excuse the shaky vid. The noise comes with clutch engaged or disengaged, in or out of gear, but mainly on deceleration. What do you think???

[wayno]

So you say it makes noise while in gear with the clutch pushed in while not moving?

Starter?

If not starter, pull the starter and see if you can wiggle the flywheel to see if it is loose.

[BenTerrible]

My guess is a bearing on the input shaft of that trans.

[hobbes_the_cat]

It also makes the noise while in gear moving too. I was thinking maybe input bearing on the trans as well but the starter idea wayno had might be it. Kinda sounds like a starter noise... and that's easier to check too. I'll give that a shot tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions, still open to hear other ideas too. :confused:

[metalmonkey47]

To check for starter noise, take it out, bump start it and drive it :D

[datzenmike]

My guess is a bearing on the input shaft of that trans.

 

Which won't be turning with the clutch peddle down.......

[BenTerrible]

Which won't be turning with the clutch peddle down.......

 

Also known as the pilot bearing, and yes, it will spin regardless of whether or not the clutch is engaged/disengaged.

[wayno]

The point of me asking if it makes the noise while the clutch is pushed in and in gear while not moving is that the transmission imput shaft is not turning configured that way, so it would not likely be the transmission bearing.

If the flywheel is loose and rattling around hitting stuff, that would be real bad.

The starter thing is less likely unless the flywheel is loose, otherwise it would do it all the time, but check everything about the starter, is it loose, ect.

Does everything work properly, did you have to do anything special when you installed the transmission, make a new clutch fork/slave rod(longer or shorter), or did it go back in the same configuration?

[BenTerrible]

The point of me asking if it makes the noise while the clutch is pushed in and in gear while not moving is that the transmission imput shaft is not turning configured that way, so it would not likely be the transmission bearing.

If the flywheel is loose and rattling around hitting stuff, that would be real bad.

The starter thing is less likely unless the flywheel is loose, otherwise it would do it all the time, but check everything about the starter, is it loose, ect.

Does everything work properly, did you have to do anything special when you installed the transmission, make a new clutch fork/slave rod(longer or shorter), or did it go back in the same configuration?

 

All true, however, bottom line is if that engine is running, the pilot bearing is spinning. It is inside the flywheel.

 

I also agree with a loose flywheel theory, you might want to check your hardware.

[hobbes_the_cat]

I did spend a lot of time trying to figure out what size T/O bearing collar to use but I'm pretty sure it was the correct size. Nothing custom or modified. I torqued down all the clutch and flywheel bolts. I'm leaning towards T/O bearing or maybe the starter is staying engaged? The weird thing is that it goes away when the revs are going up but gets loud coming back down.

[datzenmike]

My guess is a bearing on the input shaft of that trans.

 

Also known as the pilot bearing, and yes, it will spin regardless of whether or not the clutch is engaged/disengaged.

 

Not true.

[wayno]

All true, however, bottom line is if that engine is running, the pilot bearing is spinning. It is inside the flywheel.

 

I also agree with a loose flywheel theory, you might want to check your hardware.

 

 

The pilot bushing is in the end of the crank, it is alignment hardware, true it spins while the engine/flywheel turn, but he said it did it while decelerating.

Do you mean while the car is slowing down in gear, or just when you take your foot off the pedal and the rpms are dropping?

I just re-read the first post, he says that it makes the noise while in gear without the clutch pressed in decelerating, this takes the pilot bushing out of the possibilities, as the imput shaft and crank are turning the same speed.

The throwout bearing if adjusted correctly will not be turning when the clutch pedal is not pushed down, it should only make noise while the clutch pedal is being pushed on, unless adjusted wrong.

[hobbes_the_cat]

Yes, it makes the noise whenever I take my foot off the go pedal and it decelerates, in or out of gear, moving or not, clutch engaged or not.

[datzenmike]

The pilot bearing is fitted into the flywheel. The input shaft fits into it and can turn inside it. The point is that the pilot bearing is not moving in relation to the input shaft when the clutch is engaged. The pilot bearing cannot be making any of these sounds.

[datzenmike]

Pull the starter.

[BenTerrible]

The pilot bushing is in the end of the crank, it is alignment hardware, true it spins while the engine/flywheel turn, but he said it did it while decelerating.

Do you mean while the car is slowing down in gear, or just when you take your foot off the pedal and the rpms are dropping?

I just re-read the first post, he says that it makes the noise while in gear without the clutch pressed in decelerating, this takes the pilot bushing out of the possibilities, as the imput shaft and crank are turning the same speed.

The throwout bearing if adjusted correctly will not be turning when the clutch pedal is not pushed down, it should only make noise while the clutch pedal is being pushed on, unless adjusted wrong.

 

I was talking about the pilot bearing specifically. Figured it was making noise when unloaded. In the video you can only hear the noise when he unloads the throttle.

[wayno]

Yes, it makes the noise whenever I take my foot off the go pedal and it decelerates, in or out of gear, moving or not, clutch engaged or not.

 

 

Something is loose or not loose, does it sound like metal on metal?

What size clutch cover you have, 200mm, 225mm, or 240mm?

When you grab the clutch rod between the slave and fork, is it slightly loose, it should be!

If the rod is not loose, then it could be the throwout bearing as it is always spinning while the engine is running adjusted improperly, they usually don't last long that way.

[BenTerrible]

The pilot bearing is fitted into the flywheel. The input shaft fits into it and can turn inside it. The point is that the pilot bearing is not moving in relation to the input shaft when the clutch is engaged. The pilot bearing cannot be making any of these sounds.

 

Not sure how to make this clear, but the engine flywheel is bolted to the crank. The crank is spinning when the engine is running. If you go back and watch his video, you will find the when he unloads the throttle you can hear some sort of rattling/grinding. I have had bad pilot bearings in previous projects where the bearing was literally falling apart inside itself. Almost a few pebbles in a can effect.

[wayno]

Can you feel this ticking, clicking, whatever it is in the pedal?

The one time I had a throwout bearing starting to go bad, I could feel it in the pedal, can you feel it in the pedal while pushing the pedal down?

[hobbes_the_cat]

Something is loose or not loose, does it sound like metal on metal?

What size clutch cover you have, 200mm, 225mm, or 240mm?

When you grab the clutch rod between the slave and fork, is it slightly loose, it should be!

If the rod is not loose, then it could be the throwout bearing as it is always spinning while the engine is running, they usually don't last long that way.

 

It's a 200mm roadster clutch cover. I will check the clutch rod, I hope I didn't fry the new bearing. I'm pretty sure it's not the pilot bushing, I put a new one in and it was right on the money size wise and it just doesn't sound like that kind of a noise.

[hobbes_the_cat]

I do feel the vibration in the pedal but very faint.

[datzenmike]

The pilot bearing supports the input shaft of the transmission. When the clutch is engaged the input shaft is clamped to the flywheel.... the flywheel, pilot bearing and input shaft are locked together. Yes they are spinning but the input is not rattling around inside the pilot bearing.

[wayno]

It's a 200mm roadster clutch cover. I will check the clutch rod, I hope I didn't fry the new bearing. I'm pretty sure it's not the pilot bushing, I put a new one in and it was right on the money size wise and it just doesn't sound like that kind of a noise.

 

 

Did you use the roadster throwout bearing collar?

This is something I am not familiar with, in my world of 720s(L, Z, and SD blocks), the clutch collar follows the clutch cover, but this is not a conversion I am familiar with, so I would not know about this part.

I do know that if you don't have that play in the slave/fork rod, it can smoke the TO bearing.

[hobbes_the_cat]

^^^ I have no idea if i have the roadster collar, I went by measurements and part numbers. I thought I left some play in there but now I'm a little worried that maybe I didn't leave enough.

[wayno]

I do feel the vibration in the pedal but very faint.

 

 

If you feel it in the pedal, it is likely the TO bearing, but pull the starter anyway and make sure the starter and flywheel are tight, as you might be able to feel them in the pedal also.

You will have to really push and pull hard on the flywheel to be sure it is in fact tight.

I beleave he said it was the 200mm roadster clutch cover datzenmike.