Engine Knock?

[datzenmike]

Because maybe those 2 wires are on backwards?

 

hummmmm

[I'm BLUE]

Yeah Definetly re-do the compression check !

 

Make sure you don't have a leaking gauge hose.

I have had a few cheap ones split/break/leak on me.

Confirm gauge is a-ok as well !

With compression = 110psi ,,, your engine should turn over pretty quickly ,,, if it doesn't = time to troubleshoot/inspect starter or battery/cables,

 

Charge your battery on 2amp trickle charge for a bit if low.

*Pull out all 4 spark plugs

*Thread in the compression tester fitting into #1 cylinder ( I use Anti-Seize so it will seat against the o-ring faster and is much easier on the spark plug threads in general ! extends their life )

*Hold Throttle wide open

*Crank over ..

*Get out quickly and take a picture of gauge reading with a cell-phone or camera... if reading drops at all ... check gauge/accessories and/or possibly need a leak-down test.

*rinse and repeat !

*** Once your done with your dry test ^^^ might as well go through and ad a teaspoon of oil to each cylinder and re-perform compression test.

 

Valve re-adjustment for sure !, but all being 110psi is certainly strange.

Confirm all valve settings after tightening lock-nut.

Better to be a bit looser than tighter first time around.

 

Did you by chance stagger the piston rings when re-installing ?

[atkinson40]

Well Ratsun dudes, found the time to go rent the comp gauge and redo the comp tests. Bad news. :crying:

 

All readings were still around 110 PSI, but all jumped 30-40 PSI wet.

 

Guess I'll be thinking about looking for another motor VS rebuilding the one thats in it.

 

I think I remember motor machine quoting $800. I'm thinking I've seen them on CL for less.

 

Guess my bore/ring gap measurement technique was FAIL. :blush:

 

I found a 1991 Camry today with 150K owned by a little old lady for $1600.

 

That will take the pressure off the 620 till I find a motor. B)

[datzenmike]

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/46581-wts-l20b-w-5-speed-tranny-u67-head-more-socal-400/

[atkinson40]

Thanks Mike.

 

I want to find out what I did wrong when I measured the bores.

 

I have a couple of those long calipers, but you can't get very far down into the bore.

 

I'm going to pull the head again and remeasure the bores.

 

Maybe I'll get lucky and can get by with an over size set of rings?? :thumbup:

 

Is there another set of calipers I can use to get down into the bore?

 

I earlier said I didn't measure the bearings due to laziness. B) Laziness sounded better than dumbness.

 

Far from it. I have OCD and am meticulous about everthing. I just missed the bearing measurement on my first rebuild,

 

My motors are clean. I dog every oil leak because I hate working on a dirty motor.

 

Everybody has to start somewhere in every new activity.

 

Thankfully you, unlike some others, maybe remember what it was like to be a noob.

 

I remember when I was going to school, I worked as a maintenance dude in an egg processing plant.

 

That monster machine that washed, oiled, sorted, stamped, packaged, etc eggs was an electromechanical beast.

 

Huge.

 

I was about 20 and worked with an old grizzeled mecahnical engineer that mentored me and taught me.

 

Welding, plumbing, bearings, air conditioning, electrical motors... and everthing else it took to keep that plant running.

 

When the machine broke down, you had 20 people who were tending it standing around.

 

Whistles went off because it had stopped. Where ever we were doing other stuff we came running to fix it.

 

We all need to be mentored sometime at every new activity.

 

And remember when we're not noobs, those old grizzeled dudes that mentored us when we were.

 

Thanks For Remembering Mike. -K

[datzenmike]

Fix the problem... not the blame. Something tio think about.

 

I don't think you can get away with larger rings on a sloppy fitting piston. Would be nice but you can't. Pistons usually have a one to two thou clearance between them and the cylinder.

[MicroMachinery]

Thankfully you, unlike some others, maybe remember what it was like to be a noob.

 

Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Not one person here attacked you for your laziness, "dumbness", as you say, or whatever. This is a very compassionate, forgiving, community with some very intelligent, insightful, experienced members. However, when something like this comes up, it needs to be addressed and nipped in the bud.

 

There's more to knowing the Way of the Wrench than being able to turn spark plugs in or out, but some weekend warriors just don't seem to get that. If you're going to be doing something as in depth as building engines, you have to do your homework. Taking measurements isn't a "secret of the pros" that only the sagest of sage mechanics talk about behind closed doors, ANY engine-building book, guide, TV show, or guru will tell you that; it's elementary. I'm sure that you're starting to understand that now, and that's because you are slowly, mistake by mistake, becoming experienced. Don't get offended if you bring a problem here and we do our best to ensure that it won't be long forgotten. One of our most beloved and active members made the mistake of neglecting to tighten his wheel lugs(on more than one occasion, mind you) which ended him up on the side of the road.. whether it was because he was in a hurry, lazy, or just plain wasn't thinking, we still to this day give him his ration of harassment over it. He doesn't get upset, he laughs. And I'm sure that every time he is putting a wheel on ANY car, nowadays, he knows that he is capable of botching it, so extra care is taken.

 

Learn from your mistakes, but don't get upset if people here jab you a little. You haven't lost any blood, you're not hurt.. well, your ego is, from the sounds of it. We all make mistakes, it's how we learn. Just learn, fix it, and move on. No need to make a public display of anybody who called you on it, with a "pity-me-because-I-don't-know-what-I'm-doing" attitude. I've been around long enough to see that some of the very people who have helped you out in this thread can play pretty rough; all I saw was constructive instruction, and a little comic relief sprinkled in. Nothing mean, nothing malicious. You got off easy, if you ask me, so don't get all butt hurt and pouty.

[Skib]

Iv done the wheel thing too :rofl:

 

I also blew a turbo to bits on a fresh motor because I didnt think to check the original factory oil feed line for cooked coil.

 

 

a Nissan T3 will last about 20 min without oil....... encase you where wondering :rofl:

 

....... and I will never ever forget to check the old feed line again... ever :P

[atkinson40]

Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Not one person here attacked you for your laziness, "dumbness", as you say, or whatever.

 

I'll remind you of your earlier posts. I'm not feeling sorry for myself.

 

I feel sorry for those that need to attack others. They're coming from a very poor/dark place.

 

You probably shouldn't be building engines then.

 

That's... unsettling.

 

This is the ONLY guidance you offered. Except for your last tirade,

 

There's something to be said about the old adage

 

If you can't say something nice. Please don't say anything at all.

 

I'll think that you'll find all of my posts have been humble, respectful

 

and as they should be from a student looking to learn.

 

Kindly compare your responses and delivery to that of Mike's. Have a Good Day sir. I wish You Well. -K

[atkinson40]

Fix the problem... not the blame. Something to think about.

 

I don't think you can get away with larger rings on a sloppy fitting piston. Would be nice but you can't. Pistons usually have a one to two thou clearance between them and the cylinder.

 

Thanks Mike,

 

I'm going to pull the head and remeasure if nothing else to just find out what I did wrong.

 

Not to fix blame, but to understand what happened.

 

Mistakes are not a bad thing. It's how I learn.

 

I'll measure the bores and pistons and see the clearance you are talking about. I expect it to be way over.

 

A learning exercise. I measured before and thought they were OK.

 

Maybe I put standard pistons in bores that were over bored?

 

Thanks Kevin

[datsunaholic]

A caliper at the top isn't going to work. Mainly because the top is where the LEAST amount of wear is. Most wear is midbore.

 

There are 2 ways to measure bores- one is to use an inside micrometer, but that takes a LOT of practice. It's not something most folks get right the first time, and there's a LOT of doing it by feel.

 

The other way is to use a dial indicator with a inside-bore adapter. You can get both at Harbor Fright and they're accurate enough.

 

The inside mic has the advantage of being both more accurate and gives you an exact measurement (based on whatever size extensions have to use, if any) The dial indicator is easier to read, BUT you have to interpret it based off a set "zero" and add/subtract from what that zero point is. And every digital dial indicator I've used as a bore gauge reads backwards. But I've been doing it a while so it's not a problem.

 

 

You measure each bore 6 times- a cross pattern at the top, middle, and bottom. (that's for both the bore gauge and the inside mic). That tells you 3 things- average bore, bore taper, and bore out-of-round.

 

Ring gaps are measured with feeler gauges. Carefully put EACH ring in a bore, and use the piston upside-down to push the ring in about 3/4 inch. Using the piston keeps the ring level. Measure gap, then push the ring to the middle of the bore, repeat, then push it to 1" from the bottom, repeat. DO NOT file narrow rings at this point- measure ALL rings first. Generally I take one ring, and measure it in ALL the bores. This tells me which bores are larger or smaller. I then measure all the rings in the smallest bore. This tells me which rings have the closest gaps. I put them all on a sheet of paper and write the measurements, or write the measurements directly on the rings if possible. I then sort the rings- closest gaps go to the largest bores, widest to smallest. Then each ring is measured in its assigned bore, and if filing is needed NOW is the time.

[atkinson40]

A caliper at the top isn't going to work. Mainly because the top is where the LEAST amount of wear is. Most wear is midbore.

 

Thanks DA

 

That's my mistake, or at least part of it. I'll use your post as a guide when I remeasure. Kevin

[Skib]

I'll remind you of your earlier posts. I'm not feeling sorry for myself.

 

I feel sorry for those that need to attack others. They're coming from a very poor/dark place.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the ONLY guidance you offered. Except for your last tirade,

 

There's something to be said about the old adage

 

If you can't say something nice. Please don't say anything at all.

 

I'll think that you'll find all of my posts have been humble, respectful

 

and as they should be from a student looking to learn.

 

Kindly compare your responses and delivery to that of Mike's. Have a Good Day sir. I wish You Well. -K

 

 

Ratsun requires thick skin from time to time. buck up.

[RedBanner]

 

PS: To the other responders. I turn wrenches for fun. I like it. Its a hobby. If I wanted to be THAT serious, I'd go back to being an electrical engineer designing and building stuff that goes on the space shuttle/satelites. :rofl:

....... Fergot to convert from metric to imperial i imagine...

[MicroMachinery]

If you're too lazy, or uneducated, or whatever to take measurements...

 

You probably shouldn't be building engines then.

 

Sorry that I couldn't sugar coat it anymore for you. If you're this fragile over direct, down to earth advice, you're really gonna throw a tantrum the first time Hainz acknowledges your existence.

 

Did you measure your bearing clearance when you put the engine together?

Changed the bearings, but being lazy I don't remember doing any measuring. :blush:

If I wanted to be THAT serious, I'd go back to being an electrical engineer designing and building stuff that goes on the space shuttle/satelites. :rofl:

That's... unsettling.

 

Why's that unsettling, you might ask?

 

oops....

 

 

Nailed it.

 

Despite what you said earlier on, I think that your life IS that serious. It shows. Lighten up.

[atkinson40]

If you're too lazy, or uneducated, or whatever to take measurements...

 

This is a personal attack. I don't see the need for this??

 

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,^[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

 

I would ask you sir, to please not contribute to my threads. Thank You Kevin

[datzenmike]

I might add that any criticism that can be interpreted as helpful, even if it may be a bit harsh, also helps future readers years hence who come for info on these great little motors. They read and learn from others problems and fixes. That said, the longest lasting lessons in life are through direct experiences with mistakes.

 

Kevin, I would be very interested to know the reason for this low compression. You can measure the bores before tearing it down.

 

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,^[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

 

....and we really should move on.

[atkinson40]

....and we really should move on.

 

I agree Mike. I've been around the interwebs long enough to know better than to let someone get under my skin.

 

When I get to the point of measuring the bores, I'll start a new thread. Hopefully this one will die.

 

Thanks kevin

[Skib]

This is a personal attack. I don't see the need for this??

 

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,^[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

 

I would ask you sir, to please not contribute to my threads. Thank You Kevin

 

I you cant take facts without sugar coating your not going to like it here.

 

because sometimes the facts are the facts, and the fact is....

 

if ....

Changed the bearings, but being lazy I don't remember doing any measuring.

 

 

then ....

You probably shouldn't be building engines then.

 

since your an engineer let me put in maths

 

being to lazy to measure critical clearances = probably shouldnt be building engines

 

being to lazy to measure critical clearances + installing them anyway = fucked up motor

 

what you should be doing is accepting the facts, taking the lesson learned and applying it to round 2.

 

and yes, we are well aware if the definition of a troll. here we just call it Jalen.