B210 Does not stay running

[sjdon67]

My dad left me a 1977 B210 and it is having serveral issues. It has been parked since 1993 because it did not pass the CA smog check. Now I am trying to get this car running again. When I start it I have to keep pressing the gas for a while and then it will start up. Once started I have to hold the gas pedal down a bit to keep it running. Once released it will turn off. I did not do any service to this car really before starting it. What could be wrong with it? The Carborator? Or could the gas be old?

 

Also what could have made it not pass the smog check back then?

 

 

[Eagle_Adam]

first pics of said car - then answers to your questions :P welcome to Ratsun :D

[josh_t]

sounds like a clogged idle jet or maybe a vacuum leak. mine used to do that all the time. when mine was doing that it was one or the other. There are many things that could be the problem. You can get a chilton/haynes/nissan service manual and you can see how to check the smog pump system or the evaporative system could be causing problems, maybe a damaged cat, improper carburetor adjustments or vacuum leaks can cause the emissions problem too. worn ignition parts can possibly cause it not to pass. the egr system probably has to work as well. The vacuum/centrifugal advance on the distributor could cause problems too. If it burns oil, that would definitely cause problems. The choke may not be opening all the way and that can cause emissions problems.

[datzenmike]

More info needed. Is this with a warm engine or cold start up?

 

Starts and runs but won't idle could be

 

Idle speed not adjusted high enough.

Idle cut solenoid not working

Idle circuit clogged

vacuum leak but not the advance... there is no vacuum advance at idle.

ignition timing incorrect- retarded

valve lash too tight

[josh_t]

most of the later stuff i was talking about was in response to his question about what could have caused it to not pass emissions on 93

[ggzilla]

That is most likely caused by carburetor adjustments/leaks. Usually pretty easy to fix.

 

But as Mike pointed out the potential causes are many.

 

I recommend starting with a full tune-up. Any repair manual will outline the many things to do. You don't need to buy any parts! The factory service manual recommends inspection/cleaning/adjustment, not replacement (unless the part is bad). As part of this inspection you will find the problem.

[sjdon67]

That is most likely caused by carburetor adjustments/leaks. Usually pretty easy to fix.

 

But as Mike pointed out the potential causes are many.

 

I recommend starting with a full tune-up. Any repair manual will outline the many things to do. You don't need to buy any parts! The factory service manual recommends inspection/cleaning/adjustment, not replacement (unless the part is bad). As part of this inspection you will find the problem.

 

 

I was thinking doing what you are sugguesting and doing a tune up first. How hard is it to adjust the valve lash? i never tried to adjust valves before.

[ggzilla]

is is moderately difficult. but if you are patient and pay attention to detail, you can do it. Just follow the photos and instructions in the repair manual.

[josh_t]

once the valve lash is set, if they all were even slightly noisy, it will sound like a whole different machine afterwards. and once you get it all tuned up and not ticking and the idle set right and timing and dwell all within spec, its so nice and smooth, and quiet. I scratched my head and asked myself "they could do this in the 70's?" makes me wonder why people go crazy over cadillacs sometimes.

[sjdon67]

Reading the manual it says to warm up the engine to set the valve lash, the problem is it wont stay running long enough to warm it up much. Is it possible to do the valve lash adjustment with the engine cold?

[CWhip]

Here ya go.

Pumkin's how to

 

You can skip his "Aw shit" fix and go to the valve adj.

[sjdon67]

How do you know when they are adjusted correctly. It says slight drag, whats too loose or too tight? I adjust it so I can get a .013 in and move it but a .014 wont go in at all. Would this be correct? Still seems kind of nosy and dies on me. Cant warm it up to adjust warm, only cold.

[datzenmike]

Reading the manual it says to warm up the engine to set the valve lash, the problem is it wont stay running long enough to warm it up much. Is it possible to do the valve lash adjustment with the engine cold?

 

If you check the suggestions I gave you back in Feb it should idle now.

 

More info needed. Is this with a warm engine or cold start up?

 

Starts and runs but won't idle could be

 

Idle speed not adjusted high enough.

Idle cut solenoid not working

Idle circuit clogged

vacuum leak but not the advance... there is no vacuum advance at idle.

ignition timing incorrect- retarded

valve lash too tight

 

 

 

How do you know when they are adjusted correctly. It says slight drag, whats too loose or too tight? I adjust it so I can get a .013 in and move it but a .014 wont go in at all. Would this be correct? Still seems kind of nosy and dies on me. Cant warm it up to adjust warm, only cold.

 

Yes called a go no go adjustment. 0.013" fits.... 0.014" does not.

[ggzilla]

I adjust it so I can get a .013 in and move it but a .014 wont go in at all. Would this be correct?

YES

 

Is it possible to do the valve lash adjustment with the engine cold?

Certainly, even Nissan does that with new engines.

 

See "Adjust valves 0.013" COLD or 0.014" HOT"

 

Still seems kind of nosy and dies on me.

The problem is not valve lash, since you have them (now) set correctly. Possibly a valve is damaged, quite common for it to make noise. Won't cause a problem usually.

 

The "dies on me" is probably an air leak, not likely to be the valve lash adjusment.

[Kramer1981]

Go back to basics, check your fuel pump, lines, all vacuum lines and carburetor base gasket and intake manifold gaskets. Two ways to check vacuum leaks from gaskets. Get a can of starting fluid and get the engine started, then spray around gaskets(usually considered dangerous). Any change in the sound or speed of the engine will tell the tale. the other way is to put a spout lid on a quart of oil and squirt around gaskets, again, any change in sound or engine speed tells the tale.

Take your fuel lines loose at carb, pump and tank and blow out with compressed air. Give the carb a liberal douche with carb cleaner with engine running and stoped. Make sure your air filter isnt dirtier than your dryer lint trap. Do a compression check on your engine when it is DEAD COLD and make sure you dont have a cracked ring.

Check and check again and leave no stone unturned.

 

I might get heat for this, but any properly tuned engine will pass a smog check without all that smog pump and catalytic converter crap present, even though it may be required due to O.E. specs.

[sjdon67]

Go back to basics, check your fuel pump, lines, all vacuum lines and carburetor base gasket and intake manifold gaskets. Two ways to check vacuum leaks from gaskets. Get a can of starting fluid and get the engine started, then spray around gaskets(usually considered dangerous). Any change in the sound or speed of the engine will tell the tale. the other way is to put a spout lid on a quart of oil and squirt around gaskets, again, any change in sound or engine speed tells the tale.

Take your fuel lines loose at carb, pump and tank and blow out with compressed air. Give the carb a liberal douche with carb cleaner with engine running and stoped. Make sure your air filter isnt dirtier than your dryer lint trap. Do a compression check on your engine when it is DEAD COLD and make sure you dont have a cracked ring.

Check and check again and leave no stone unturned.

 

I might get heat for this, but any properly tuned engine will pass a smog check without all that smog pump and catalytic converter crap present, even though it may be required due to O.E. specs.

 

 

I did do a compression check with the engine cold because it wont stay running long enough to warm up. Here were the results

 

 

1 = 170

 

2 = 185

 

3 = 180

 

4 = 180

 

I also replaced all the flexable fuel lines as some of them were cracked and used carb cleaner on the carb. Im thinking of replacing all the vacuum lines to make sure they are good.

[Kramer1981]

I did do a compression check with the engine cold because it wont stay running long enough to warm up. Here were the results

 

 

1 = 170

 

2 = 185

 

3 = 180

 

4 = 180

 

I also replaced all the flexable fuel lines as some of them were cracked and used carb cleaner on the carb. Im thinking of replacing all the vacuum lines to make sure they are good.

 

I would be suspect of No 1, cylinders should be within 7-10 psi of each other. Maybe a crcked ring, maybe a burnt valve.

[datzenmike]

That's under 10%, I wouldn't worry. Less difference is better of course.

[Kramer1981]

That's under 10%, I wouldn't worry. Less difference is better of course.

 

under 10 % but over 10 psi...meet in the middle. normally a cracked ring is more of a difference. maybe bad valve guide?

[sjdon67]

That was the compresson before I adjusted the valve lash. Would valve lash make a difference in the readings? I going to do another compression test.

[sjdon67]

under 10 % but over 10 psi...meet in the middle. normally a cracked ring is more of a difference. maybe bad valve guide?

 

 

Would those compression results keep the car from running?

[datzenmike]

No it would run just fine. Have you turned the idle speed up?.

Adjusted the idle mixture?

Set the timing yet?

[Kramer1981]

That was the compresson before I adjusted the valve lash. Would valve lash make a difference in the readings? I going to do another compression test.

 

only if the valves were WAAAAAAY too tight before, like adjusted so far down one was hanging open a hair, doesnt seem likely though

[ofg]

While fixing my 79 210,, I ran into all kinds of loose parts. Manifolds, carb riser, emissions equipment. All were loose, and causing vacuum and exhaust pressure leaks. Sometimes its not just the obvious little vacuum leaks causing problems.