5sp tranny into a 610

[docbainey]

Did some searching to no avail.

 

Will an early 200SX 5spd, dog leg? tranny fit into a 610 coupe without mods?

 

I know the 610 tranny is longer then the PL510 unit, but how does the 200sx & 610 unit compare??

 

Thanx for you knowledge!!

[ggzilla]

610 is longer. 1977-1979 200SX is the shortest one available.

[docbainey]

That bites.

 

Is there a 5spd out there the same length as the 610 4spd?

 

So the early 200sx would bolt into a pl510?

[Guest kamakazi620]

That bites.

 

Is there a 5spd out there the same length as the 610 4spd?

 

So the early 200sx would bolt into a pl510?

Yeah a 280z or 620 truck trans same length 31"

[LenRobertson]

You are looking at good news here (unless you already bought the SX dogleg tranny). The longtail 610 4-speed is the same length as 5-spd from 280Z, 280ZX, or pickup 5-spd (if bolted to an L-series engine). Also 810/Maxima rear wheel drive. So you should have a much easier time finding one compared to an SX. Plus they are a stronger tranny than SX. What I don't know is if you must do any cross member mods to put a 5-spd in a 610. Don't know if the speedo input is on the same side either. There were different ratio sets for different 5-speeds:

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/datsun_transmissions.htm

http://newprotest.org/projects/510/gearRatios.pl

No idea if one is preferred for a 610.

Hoping datzenmike will join in on this question.

 

Len

[datzenmike]

The stock 610 4 speed and the 200sx dogleg are both on the left (driver's) side. The FS5W71B 5 speed from the 280z or zx, 620 truck or the 810/Maxima is on the right side. If you remove the speedo cable and un-clip it all the way up to the firewall and then route it down over the top of the transmission and over to the right side it should easily reach. (I run a short 4 speed cable over the top of a long 5 speed and it works just fine)

 

The 610 4 speed and the FS5W71B are very very close to the same length about 31.5". Unlikely the mount on the back will be in the same location or the same height. Before removing measure down from the tunnel top to the driveshaft so that when the 5 speed is in, the driveshaft can be located in the same position vertically. This will prevent vibration from a driveshaft angle change..

[docbainey]

This really sux!!! I've been cartin around an early 200sx tranny for nearly 30 friggen yrs!!!! Just measured it 26" So that does fit a PL510? If so, I'll be offing that turb soon!!

 

Lookin at the chart, below I should be able to score a later 200sx tranny? If I go the truck route are the ratios different? When you look for used parts, anything with a 'Z" comands more money

 

 

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/datsun_transmissions.htm.

Thanx!

[Laecaon]

Dont use a later 200sx tranny, those are Z motors, which will make your tranny tilt a lot.

[datzenmike]

This really sux!!! I've been cartin around an early 200sx tranny for nearly 30 friggen yrs!!!! Just measured it 26" So that does fit a PL510? If so, I'll be offing that turb soon!!

 

The 63A from the early 200sx is the same length as the 510 4 speed (26") and makes an easy swap because the driveshaft does not need to be shortened. This 5 speed in good shape, is highly sought after for it's unique shift pattern and ease of installation. The 62A first through forth gears are identical to the stock 4 speed and even the speedometer cable is on the same side. You won't have trouble selling it.

 

The 610 4 speed and the 280z and zx, 620 and 810/Maxima 4 and 5 speeds are the same length at 31.5"

 

 

Lookin at the chart, below I should be able to score a later 200sx tranny? If I go the truck route are the ratios different? When you look for used parts, anything with a 'Z" comands more money

 

No, only the first gen 200sx had an L series motor in it and only it's transmission, the 63A @ 26" long, will fit the L motor in your 610. Second gen 200sx had a Z series motor and the transmission, FS5W71B @ 31.5" long, won't work on an L series in the 610.

 

The 620 and the first year 720 trucks used an L series motor and the 31.5" 5 speeds will work in the 610. The '77-'79 Z car transmissions are identical to the '77-'78 620 truck and 810/Maxima 5 speeds. They are different in name only. The '80-'83 non turbo 5 speeds are slightly more in demand because they have a much larger overdrive 5th gear ratio. That's all so look for a '77-'78 620 truck 5 speed ... it's the same one used in the 280z.

 

______________________________________________________________

[docbainey]

No, only the first gen 200sx had an L series motor in it and only it's transmission, the 63A @ 26" long, will fit the L motor in your 610. Second gen 200sx had a Z series motor and the transmission, FS5W71B @ 31.5" long, won't work on an L series in the 610.

 

 

The second gen 200sx, can the bellhousing be swapped with the early 200sx to get the right tilt?

 

Just askin

 

Never liked the dog leg H pattern anyways!

[Laecaon]

No, only the first gen 200sx had an L series motor in it and only it's transmission, the 63A @ 26" long, will fit the L motor in your 610. Second gen 200sx had a Z series motor and the transmission, FS5W71B @ 31.5" long, won't work on an L series in the 610.

 

 

The second gen 200sx, can the bellhousing be swapped with the early 200sx to get the right tilt?

 

Just askin

 

Never liked the dog leg H pattern anyways!

 

Just sell the Dogleg, It will sell for some money. Probably enough to get a "Z" transmission...

 

And while you dont like the pattern, its nice on the freeway. And nice for parallel parking.

[docbainey]

I'm on the 'northcoast' as the radio stations like to say. no market for dime stuff around here. Shipping to the west, would be stupidly expensive.

[Laecaon]

I'm on the 'northcoast' as the radio stations like to say. no market for dime stuff around here. Shipping to the west, would be stupidly expensive.

 

Still list it while you hunt for a few transmissions.

 

Surprising what people will do sometimes.

[docbainey]

Dont use a later 200sx tranny, those are Z motors, which will make your tranny tilt a lot.

 

 

Shit, I'm just about to score a Z22, the belief was that the block was the same basic dimensions as a L20? With bigger bores and more stroke?

 

I need some more beer! :confused:

[datzenmike]

No, only the first gen 200sx had an L series motor in it and only it's transmission, the 63A @ 26" long, will fit the L motor in your 610. Second gen 200sx had a Z series motor and the transmission, FS5W71B @ 31.5" long, won't work on an L series in the 610.

 

 

The second gen 200sx, can the bellhousing be swapped with the early 200sx to get the right tilt?

 

Just askin

 

Never liked the dog leg H pattern anyways!

 

No the Dogleg is an FS5W63A or a 63 series transmission. The 280z/620/Maxima 5 speed is an FS5W71B or 71 series transmission and nothing in them is common.

 

 

 

Now you say...

 

Shit, I'm just about to score a Z22, the belief was that the block was the same basic dimensions as a L20? With bigger bores and more stroke?

 

I need some more beer! :confused:

 

 

What motor is in the 610?????All info was assuming you have the stock motor in it. Is that not so????

[docbainey]

No the Dogleg is an FS5W63A or a 63 series transmission. The 280z/620/Maxima 5 speed is an FS5W71B or 71 series transmission and nothing in them is common.

 

 

 

Now you say...

 

 

 

 

What motor is in the 610?????All info was assuming you have the stock motor in it. Is that not so????

 

L20 possibly a bastardized z22

 

Read the Jason Gray thread, it isn't even mentioned about any tranny or engine mounts being different (tilted, whatever) l vs z. Is it a wrong assumption that the l20 & z22 are dimensionaly correct externaly as far as motor & tranny mounts? I get the difference in length of th ettrannys, I just don't get the tilt factor, if the blocks and mounting holes are dimensionally the same.

 

Why go into a whole thread about interchanging engines and pieces if they don't bolt up to existing mounts?

[ggzilla]

The engine+gearbox combination bolts up to existing mounts.

 

* L-series leans about 15 degrees to right, but so does L-series gearbox

 

* Z-series is nearly straight up, but so is Z-series gearbox.

[docbainey]

The engine+gearbox combination bolts up to existing mounts.

 

* L-series leans about 15 degrees to right, but so does L-series gearbox

 

* Z-series is nearly straight up, but so is Z-series gearbox.

 

 

Ok, I just don't understand the whole jason gray engine thread deal without mentioning that little fact. Details I guess!!

 

So if I do a basterized z22, I should get a gear box off of a z20, 22 or 24 motor if it's the right length? or a 84 to 86 non turbo z car?

 

and if I keep the l20 I need a gear box from an early truck or 77 to 79 280?

[ggzilla]

What do you mean by "basterized z22"?

 

An L-series engine with Z-series internals? Then you use an L-series gearbox. It's still an L-series engine.

 

A Z22 engine with L-series head? Then use a Z-series gearbox. It's a Z22 engine.

[LenRobertson]

It's been a long day, so I may confuse you more. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm too far off. I haven't read Jason's pages in awhile, but I'm pretty sure his motors use an L series head on the Z series block, along with L series motor mounts. So you end up with L series tilt, and need one of the L series tilt trannys. I believe you can then use a Z20, Z22, Z24 5-speed IF you swap the bell housing with a one from a longtail L 5-speed. Any 5-speed BUT the dogleg you have. The way this might work for you is if you can get some Westcoast Ratsuner with a trashed 5-speed to sell you just the bellhousing, then shipping wouldn't be as bad as on a complete tranny. Or go Z22 block, L head, and your dogleg, BUT you will need to lengthen your drive line. Not ideal, but $100 for lengthening and balancing the shaft might be cheaper than a longtail 5-speed with shipping. More confused now? Sorry!

 

Len

[ggzilla]

Easier to just avoid mix-and-match solutions!

[datzenmike]

The L series motor leans about 12 degrees to the right (pass side). All Ls do.

 

The Z series leans almost the same amount to the left of vertical. JG doesn't mention it because he's primarily interseted in the L series and it's modifications. So if you don't plan to run a stock Z series motor, head and manifolds just forget these two sentences you won't kneed to know it.

 

The L20B, the Z20 and the Z22 blocks are almost identical with the only difference being that the bore on the Z22 is larger and the crankshaft has a longer throw. It wouldn't be any work to put an L20B head on either of the Z20 or Z22 blocks. An L20B head on a Z22 block basically makes it an L22B.

 

The Z24 motor is again identical except that the block is taller by 3/4" and the crankshaft has an even longer throw. A little more work but an L head can be fitted basically making it an L24B.

 

In both cases the Z22 and the Z24 become L series engines and any transmission that will bolt to an L series motor will now bolt to them also.

 

On top of this, many internal parts, rods and pistons can also be swapped to make various displacement motors too.

[ggzilla]

That's confusing. You mean the L20B and Z22 blocks are the same? I thought the L had the oil pan flange at a 13-degree slant (oil pan flange parallel with the ground).

 

The Z looks more straight or maybe a 5-degree anti-slant. From photos it doesn't looked leaned over as far as the L-series.

[datzenmike]

The Z22 and the L20B are almost identical with the bore casting slightly larger on the Z22. They are the same height from oil pan to head surface, same bore spacing, same head bolt pattern. Internally the Z22 has a longer throw crank, larger diameter pistons and some even use the L20B rods. To make an L22 you would need the L20B head, oil pan and timing cover and the chain... it will all bolt onto the Z22 block and you wouldn't easily be able to tell the difference.

 

The L leans to the right by 12 degrees, this from my FSM. Doug (Sealick) has reported a similar tilt the other way on the Z series. I have to agree 12 degrees isn't enough to make the transmission tilt enough of a problem in my opinion. A combined 23 or so degree tilt IS a problem.

[datzenmike]

L20 possibly a bastardized z22

 

Read the Jason Gray thread, it isn't even mentioned about any tranny or engine mounts being different (tilted, whatever) l vs z. Is it a wrong assumption that the l20 & z22 are dimensionaly correct externaly as far as motor & tranny mounts? I get the difference in length of th ettrannys, I just don't get the tilt factor, if the blocks and mounting holes are dimensionally the same.

 

Why go into a whole thread about interchanging engines and pieces if they don't bolt up to existing mounts?

 

Oh... OK. As long as it's being run in the L series position then everything is fine. The 63A dogleg will survive an L20B but barely. If expecting to go even larger LZ22 I would go with the FS5W71B, much stronger and can handle a 280z/zx six cylinder.