210 won't start

[PinoyDat210]

Hey everybody first thread here and i wouldn't mind some feedback, it would be much appreciated. I bought a 1980 datsun 210 coupe five speed for a hundred bucks, it was running on a blown head gasket coated in sludge( (i mean the whole engine comparment was black) spilling radiator fluid, no air filter and extremely overheating. I disassembled the whole top end, sent in the head to the machine shop it was warped i had it milled and rdone almost new, with new guides and everything. When i took off the head the bottom end was still in pretty good condition. So i ordered a new gasket set, cleaned off all the blown gaskets, reassembled and torqued the head. (also i gasket matched the head, the exhaust manifold, and the intake, which was a blast!) I also cut out all the emissions except the brake booster and carb lines, also cut out the worn out cat to a straight pipe and glasspack. Reassembled and the carb was redone- hitachi dch 306-(poorly)! New plugs gapped at .45mm (accels) Valves gapped at .35mm, everything was also torqued to factory specs. Now I tried to fire it up and it wouldnt start, after numerous tries i held the gas pedal down and got it fire up ( super stoked sounded mean!!) but it wouldnt idle, as soon as my foot was off the pedal it would die. It did this twice! Now it wont even get close to this stage. After further analysis the carb was flooding fuel every where fouling the hell out of the plugs. So i dissassembled the carb and set everything back at specs including float level. But as soon as we tried to start it again the float level went completely full and flooded again just a little less this time. So i'm thinking that the float is bad and im going to get a new carb kit and float, new springs for everything hoping that would help. Take in mind that it ran before all of this but needed to be shut off ever half mile or so due to overheating. This is my first car overhaul and im stoked and dissapointed at the same time because i have been learning alot but it seems all my attempts come to a fail. I ve been working all summer on this thing cussing and smiling. I just want it to fire and run so could be the happiest dood in a datto. haha Now do u think this is carb problem and if so could it be fixed with a propper rebuild or is the problem something more.

Also i do not want to swap it with a weber, i beleive the stock hitachi could be just fine if propperly tuned. At first i was looking to make a mean street machine, but i was recently fired from my job so my funds are low, so now im just trying to get it to run as my commuter. Thanks anything will help!

[metalmonkey47]

Valves gapped at .35mm, everything was also torqued to factory specs.

 

Holy hell....

 

 

 

That's WAY off. You should be at .10 cold and .14 hot, according to the under hood tag.

 

 

NVM^^ I'm not thinking in metric

Edited September 2, 2011 by metalmonkey47

[king bee66]

Holy hell....

 

 

 

That's WAY off. You should be at .10 cold and .14 hot, according to the under hood tag.

 

thats crazy man,

 

its .33 cold .35 hot

[metalmonkey47]

thats crazy man,

 

its .33 cold .35 hot

 

Not according to my tag underhood? Guess I need to go take a picture of it

 

 

EDIT NVM I wasn't paying attention, he measured by 'mm' and I was thinking 'in'

Edited September 2, 2011 by metalmonkey47

[king bee66]

personally i wouldnt have removed the emissions, worked on the card and done all the other stuff until after you put the head back on and got it running because now youre working with many more variables to what could be wrong. a carb rebuild coundnt hurt to start.

[metalmonkey47]

Have you verified your IGN timing?

[king bee66]

Not according to my tag underhood? Guess I need to go take a picture of it

 

 

EDIT NVM I wasn't paying attention, he measured by 'mm' and I was thinking 'in'

 

lol, i even just went outside to check my hood tag. b210s dont mention valve clearance though...

[metalmonkey47]

lol, i even just went outside to check my hood tag. b210s dont mention valve clearance though...

 

lol I caught myself as soon as I had my FSM in hand when I realized I've done that before. Really need to wake up this morning :rofl:

[PinoyDat210]

Thats what my dad was telling me (he's a mechanic 20 years) being the dumbass that i am i thought i could have done it all one my own, but slowly realized how much more difficultit is than i thought. Should i reconnect everything back to the original setup? I alos thought that only certain emissions were required for the vehcile to run even if poorly. It sucks because when i was dissassembling it i took lots and lots of pictures but my camera broke and i had nothing much to go by when i was putting it back togethor. I sepnt countless hours researching but im new to this so i havent gotten far. The carb was really flooding though and after attempting to start it the float sight glass was completely black because the float was so high even aft6er re-adjusting. Could the float be punctured and absorbing fuel allowing excessive amounts of fuel resulting in the flood?

[PinoyDat210]

how do u mean by the ign timing? im really new. But we had spark at the plugs and the firing order is 1-4-3-2 or so and thats what i had it set at.

 

 

[hogboy52]

...

First fix the carburetor flooding!

 

I don't see that these floats really go bad. It's foam not brass isn't it? If you drop it in some gas does it float?

 

With the lid off hook up a bit of fuel line and suck on the line while lifting the float. when the float reaches level the valve should be closed and hold a vacuum. The float drop should not be so excessive that it can hang up.

 

...

[metalmonkey47]

Have you verified your IGN timing?

 

 

how do u mean by the ign timing? im really new. But we had spark at the plugs and the firing order is 1-4-3-2 or so and thats what i had it set at.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Ignition_timing

 

 

Ignition timing is adjusted by rotating your distributor clockwise (advanced) and counter clockwise (retard). Chances are if you never pulled your distributor your ignition timing is correct. Or at least close enough to run.

 

 

 

 

You need 3 basic things to make an old engine run:

 

A: Fuel/Air

B: Compression

C: Spark

 

And it all needs to be happening at the right time.

 

 

1: Intake

2: Compression

3: Combustion

4: Exhaust

 

 

 

 

 

What you have to look at is what's changed, and what you know isn't working right. Solve one problem at a time. Find what's causing your carb flooding first, and if that doesn't solve it, at least that's one less problem to worry about.

Edited September 2, 2011 by metalmonkey47

[bilzbobaggins]

Needle and seat might not be closing causing the bowl to flood. I assume it was replaced in your rebuild?

 

Jeff

[datzenmike]

...

First fix the carburetor flooding!

 

I don't see that these floats really go bad. It's foam not brass isn't it? If you drop it in some gas does it float?

 

With the lid off hook up a bit of fuel line and suck on the line while lifting the float. when the float reaches level the valve should be closed and hold a vacuum. The float drop should not be so excessive that it can hang up.

 

...

 

Do this above. It's obviously not right and can be fixed.

 

how do u mean by the ign timing? im really new. But we had spark at the plugs and the firing order is 1-4-3-2 or so and thats what i had it set at.

 

 

I hope you simply typed this wrong or else your plug wires are in the wrong order. Firing order is 1-3-4-2 not 1-4-3-2

[PinoyDat210]

Yes i mistyped the firing order we already checked the ignition timing and firing order,1-3-4-2 not 1-4-3-2 thanks to nissan. We checked the spark and it appears good, its definately getting air, and it is recieving fuel just way too much. I think that the needle seat isnt working propperly and it was replaced, but the rebuild was done like shit so we are going to rebuild the rebuild haha. we tested the float and it did not stay in place, instantly allowing the float chamber to flood. I am currently awaiting a new rebuild kit and i will get back to you guys with the update. I was also wondering if the float were to be replaced could i replace it with a brass one? Im crossing my fingers i cant afford anymore set backs at this time. Thanks for all the feedback, atleast im learning! haha

[king bee66]

you could make a float out of a stick if you calibrated it right

[PinoyDat210]

Hey everybody just updating on the proccess. Just recieved the carb kit and a new brass float is on the way. Thinking about hooking the altitude compensator back up, might as well use the researched technology. Also i was wondering what are the advantages of the altitude compensator?, Is their any other system i should hook back up that would be usefull?, and Which vacuum port placed on the carb connects to the distributer advance? is it the one on the very bottom? Some fresh knowledge for my mind would be real pleasing, thanks everybody again for their input!

[datzenmike]

Altitude comp may have some slight effect if above 5K feet. Otherwise not to worry. Not familiar with the 210 carb.

[ggzilla]

On most any carb, A-series, L-series or even FOrd or CHevy, the bottom most fitting is usually for the distributor vacuum advance.

 

Altitude compensator 1975/1976 works at all elevations. Without one, it will be noticeable at 5,000 feet. Not so noticeable at 2,000 feet. Note that 1977/1978 does not have an automatic compensator but a manual one.

[PinoyDat210]

Just starting taking my carb apart and realized!, WTF!, their is no servo diaphram! I dont remember losing it, and i'm sure that if it were to come off i would have been the one insuring it to safety. So i dont really know what to do. Can you purchase these, and if so where?, and are they interchangeable with any other vehicles? Might as well ask, what is the purpose of the servo? And is it neccassary?

 

Its weird, hopefully i wasnt the one to have lost it because i cant recall if it was their in the first place! haha

[ggzilla]

servo diaphragm?

[datzenmike]

New plugs gapped at .45mm (accels)

 

 

Again hope this is typo error. 0.45mm is only 0.17" that's under half what the plug gap should be. Also Datsuns run best on NGK plugs. I'm sure that it will run well on other makes but you can't always follow a substitution chart. they are simply the closest match. Get it running first and later when you can get the correct NGK plugs.

 

Also i do not want to swap it with a weber, i beleive the stock hitachi could be just fine if propperly tuned.

 

Absolutely. The stock Hitachi is always best because it was designed for your application with a bias towards economy and lower emissions. If not worried about that there are some performance gains with a larger Weber but everything else like drive ability at lower speeds is compromised.

 

 

 

servo diaphragm?

 

Well could be the vacuum secondary or maybe a throttle kicker? I don't know if it applies here but some engines with air conditioning have a solenoid like 'kicker' that manually increases the idle speed to compensate for the added compressor load at idle. ???

[ggzilla]

The spark plug gap should be 0.042 inch for USA and 0.035 inch for Canada and most other countries. That is 0.9 mm for the points-based gap.