510 l20b swap info

[Good510]

Ok so I am swaping a l20b into my 71 510, motor is in and everything is hooked up, but it wont start, I just noticed that the dist is a matchbox, and the wiring is set up for the stock l16, I saw some write ups but im still un clear on what to do.

 

Also my ignition key wont start the car.

 

I know these are rookie questions but I am new to 510 s and I dont know a whole lot about carb motors and these old set ups.

 

If anyone lives in or near rhe mesa az area and wouldnt mind tryin to help that would be great!!!!

[LenRobertson]

Here is a link to matchbox dizzy info:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20031006095409/http://home.att.net/~jason510/Dizzy_FAQ.htm

 

Skip down to "Electrical Connections". There isn't a wiring diagram, but the description is pretty clear. Make two jumper wires. One goes from the B matchbox module terminal to the + on the coil. The C terminal goes to the - on the coil. I believe you leave the other wires to the coil hooked up. Bypass the ballast resistor (white ceramic thingy) by putting both wires to the resistor under one of the two studs on the resistor, effectively hooking them together, rather than going through the resistor.

 

Has the dizzy been out of the engine? It is easy to get it back in 180 degrees out of time. You want the dizzy rotor pointing at #1 cylinder position when both valves on #1 cylinder are closed (both rockers up). You may have to yank the valve cover to be sure. Maybe you can look through the oil cap hole.

 

"Also my ignition key wont start the car." I'm not sure what you mean here. The engine doesn't crank over when you turn the key? It is always worth checking the small wire with the spade terminal that goes into the starter solenoid on top of the starter. This connection sometimes gets loose over time, then no cranking. Clean the connection as best you can, then crimp the spade closed slightly, so it makes a good connection.

 

If you have been cranking the engine with no spark, it is possible the plugs have fouled with gas. This can happen even with brand new plugs. Burn the electrodes off with a propane torch, or replace the plugs. But be sure you have spark to the plugs before you take the time to do this.

 

I use a bit of spray carb cleaner as a mild starting fluid. Spray it down the carb throat, and if you have spark, the engine should try to fire, even if the carb has a problem of some sort. It helps eliminate the carb from the no-start equation.

 

Len

[banzai510(hainz)]

watch this 5000 times

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8EF51386855F2B58

 

so you instlled the L16 oil pan with the oil pick up

use the 510 stamped motor mounts that were on the L16 block put them on the L20 block.

Use a small aircleaner so it font het the hood

 

what clutch and T/O bearing set up you got?

 

why not use the L16 distributor 1st as I assume the car still has the point dizzy coil and ballast resisitor.

If you use a Matchbox you can use the point coil with the ballast but needs a slightly different wiring

Or Can use a Matchbox WITHOUT the ballast but you need a 79 EI 200sxor 79 620 coil (which Len Robertson forgot to mention in his writeup) or a MSD Blaster 2 coil. and wiried different but a 5 min job if you know what your doing.

So dont be lazy its in the HOW TO section here or on Jason Gray write up on olddatsuns.com tech section

 

this is simple

key is time the oil pump so the dizzy is timed to Top Dead Center( TDC)

Make sure the valve lash is good and have gas it will fire.

 

 

Len wrote:

You want the dizzy rotor pointing at #1 cylinder position when both valves on #1 cylinder are closed (both rockers up). You may have to yank the valve cover to be sure. Maybe you can look through the oil cap hole.

 

Not true just open the oil cap that lobe right there is #1 intake lobe and make sure its nearing the 10o clock position and then look at your timming mark on the crank. get it to Zero then look where your rotor is pointing. Soul be on #1 plug wire ir Damn close within the timming plate range. if not You put #1 plu wire on there. 1 3 4 2 ccw fire order.

 

If oiol pump was installed off or the dizzy mount is wrong it coule be a tooth off. a sign of this is if you have to crank the dizzy to one side and it barely runs.

Get a timming light. A must for a L motor!!!!!!!

[LenRobertson]

hainz - Thanks for the corrections. I meant to mention need for a different coil, although the stock coil should get it running, right? But once it runs, it is easy to forget needing to change the coil.

 

And I'm glad I posted the possible need to yank the valve cover. Now you have shown me a better way - look at the position of the one easy to see lobe when at the TDC mark on the pulley. Cool!

 

I try not to post inaccurate info on here, but I feel good knowing if I do, someone almost always jumps me about it (and I learn something).

 

Len

[banzai510(hainz)]

Len Yes you can use the stock dizzy with the ballast. just hook B of matchbox to the + side of the ballast resisitor.C of Matchbox to the - side coil and keep the hot start(blk/blu HOT START wire to the + side coil. It would be more like a Pertronix set up as your not using the full EI coil output as they run on the straight 12-14volts. but it will run FINE

Alot of people will bypass the resisitor but still run the point coil and it will cook and melt after awhile.POint coils are only made to run with a ballast or resisitive wire (really lower current)

 

 

I try not to post inaccurate info on here, but I feel good knowing if I do, someone almost always jumps me about it (and I learn something).

 

I learned this over time also.

 

Most time its right there with in 15 mins you can figure a L motor.

Time the motor. dizzy and wireing to the dizzy. next valve lash or lash pads fell off. then look at GAS. It will fire even with blown out rings it will fire!

[LenRobertson]

hainz - Great additional info. I'm hoping Good510 is tuning in here, and picking up on all this. I'm sure learning from it. Seems he should be able to get his dime running, even though I understand having someone in person to help is always nice.

 

Another trick I learned is filling the float bowl with gas up to the level in the window. I have a small Coleman stove funnel and a piece of tubing. Slip it over one of the bowl vent tubes (those angled tubes sticking up into the carb throats), and pour gas right down into the float chamber. Then even if there is a bad fuel pump, or plugged line, or screwed carb, the engine will usually start and run until the bowl empties.

 

Len

[datzenmike]

watch this 5000 times NAKED!!!

http://www.youtube.c...EF51386855F2B58

 

fIXED

[Good510]

Wow thanks for all the input, I will try all of this tomorrow, im currently not at home to try all of this...

 

I have built several hondas in my time and been apart of other forums and I have never got quick help like this, thanks, im just so ready to drive my very first dime, never have before, cant wait!!!!!

[Skib]

lulz this deff isnt a honda forum :rolleyes:

[Good510]

Haniz, I used the clutch and t/o from the l20b, I asumed this was the way to go, im I wrong?

 

I did swap out the pan and oil pick up from my old l16, along with the carb.

 

I believe the key ignition is bad, the tumbler seems very sticky and sometimes wont turn, and when trying to start the motor with the key nothin happens (but) I do get power to everything else, (lights on dash) so I replaced the spade conector at the starter but nothing still.

 

Well time to go put all this info to work, I will update the progress. Thanks len and haniz, lots of great info

[LenRobertson]

Haniz, I used the clutch and t/o from the l20b, I asumed this was the way to go, im I wrong?

 

I did swap out the pan and oil pick up from my old l16, along with the carb.

 

I believe the key ignition is bad, the tumbler seems very sticky and sometimes wont turn, and when trying to start the motor with the key nothin happens (but) I do get power to everything else, (lights on dash) so I replaced the spade conector at the starter but nothing still.

 

Well time to go put all this info to work, I will update the progress. Thanks len and haniz, lots of great info

 

My understanding is the TO bearing & sleeve go with the clutch, so I think you did it right. But every time I make a broad generalization, someone posts an "Except when...". So when hainz or datzenmike or someone says you are okay, then you can feel secure. Did you keep the 4-speed tranny in there?

 

New locksets are avaiable: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1972-Nissan-Datsun-510/Ignition-Lock-Cylinder-Keys/_/N-ipm01Z9cice Probably stores other than Autozone have them. The Autozone website is easy to navigate, so I look there, even if I don't buy. [Matt, if you are reading this, I hate the NAPA website. It always gives me the find-a-store run around. I know where the stores are!] But that is just the lockset, and you may have a switch problem. I'm remembering there is a plug-in connector on the back of the switch. Maybe if you unplug this, you can use a meter on the switch to see if it is giving good continuity through the ON and START positions. I think you can jumper the connector you pull out of the switch and see if you can get the starter to roll over. Any idea if the starter is good?

 

Len

[Good510]

Ya starter is good, I have been using a jumper wire to try to start the car

[DAT510]

start ruling out things, you said everything else turns on when you turn the switch, do you hear the starter cranking or does nothing at all happen? i also suggest getting a Haynes manual, you'd have all the info you would ever need

[hvyd]

did the car have an automatic in it stock or was it always a manual trans car?

[LenRobertson]

did the car have an automatic in it stock or was it always a manual trans car?

 

Excellent thought. If the car had an automatic, and the neutral safety switch was unplugged, but the wires to the switch not hooked together, then you won't get power to the solenoid wire.

 

Len

[Good510]

So how can I tell if it was an auto?

[DAT510]

look for wires going down into teh tranny tunnel

[LenRobertson]

I just looked at my '72 auto 510. On the firewall just above the trans tunnel is a wiring harness with 4 wires in it. It runs across down into the tunnel, just behind the starter. These 4 wires originally went to the neutral safety switch on the passenger side of the auto. On my car, the two pairs have male & female bullet connectors on the ends. I just plugged together one of the pairs (on my 510, red w. black stripe & blue w. black stripe, but your colors may be different) and that gives continuity to the solenoid wire. I left the other pair unplugged, although I taped the bare end in case it is hot.

 

But if your car was originally a manual trans, I don't know what sort of wires you may have. I looked at a 4-speed out of another 510, and it has different wire connectors, not round bullet style. Of course someone may have cut the bullets off and spliced the wires and done a bad splice. Worth checking.

 

If you can see the hole in the floor where your shift lever comes through, and it looks like a rough cut hole, that would be a good indication it was originally an auto car, and someone hacked a new hole there.

 

Len

[banzai510(hainz)]

ck the wires by the coil

key on the blk /wht wire will have 12 volts

Key in START ,the blk/blu and the blk/grn will have 12 volts (pull the starter wire so car doesnt try to start)

Lug at STARTER will have 12volts.ON START

If you have all this the car will run.

Its just hooking them to the correct spots.

 

then key swithc work OK.

 

as for the automatic question did this start before? but if the wires above mention have the power in the correct key position then it dont matter abut the AUTOMATIC question.

 

 

the clucth? you saqid yo have a 200sx and ordered a 200 sx clutch kit. which is a pressureplate disc and T/O bearing.

If you u used the 510 T/O bearing sleeve it might or probaply is a diffeernet length. as the 200sx used a different diaphram height.Why I dont know? its a 200mm if flywheel is from a car(L20 610,710,200sx)

 

Depending on how the fork arm is positioned you could use the 510 fork ,the one with the hole and depending on the threaded rod lenth make it work(if to short weld a extension) or make it shorter but since it has threads you can adjust the ball end to get your slack off the T/O bearing

[Good510]

Car wasnt an auto, checked all of the above, and no wires near the trans and the hole is factory cut, however the is alot of splicing done to the reverse light switch, which was laying on the floor board of the passenger side, really messy job and it looks like more wire were messed with, ......

 

Well I am going to check on all of this and try to get this dome running by the end of the week

[LenRobertson]

Yeah, messing with wiring is a fact of life with Datsuns. 40 year old wires and connectors, and who knows what a previous owner may have screwed up. I don't know if you have a wiring diagram, or if there is one online somewhere. Might find one for a truck here: http://www.olddatsuns.com/ The color codes may not be the same as a 510, but probably ignition/start circuit is similar if not identical.

 

Len

[Good510]

Ok so, Im getting very close now, power going to coil and from coil to dist, now I havent checked timing yet, but will tomorrow.

 

I fixed the problem with the key switch, installed a new wire from key switch to starter. Everything works good now.

 

im still not getting spark so I figure ethier dist/cap and rotor/or plugs.

 

 

I will say it agian, thanks for all the help, ratsun form peeps I hope to see some of you and your dimes out there at some datsun meets one day!!!

[banzai510(hainz)]

im still not getting spark so I figure ethier dist/cap and rotor/or plugs.

 

WHAT???????

most people hook up the blk/blu wire to the + coil also. This is the HOT start wire. This wire will have 12volt in the START only position. so you will have possible 3 wires hooked up to the + sde coil

1) blk/wht wire 12volt with key ON

2) blk/blu with 12volt key In START only

3) B of matchbox

 

 

C of Matchbox to - side coil.

 

 

Now pull the center coil wire from the center dizzy cap. the otherside will still be in the coil. place near the strut nut on top . now reach in with your right hand and turn the key. if you get snapping spark this car will run. Now the rest is for you to time the dizzy 1 3 4 2 counter clockwise fire order and or ck the valave lash.

 

If you dont have spark your coil or your dizzy is bad.

 

PS make sure you have the correct coil on for the application.If using the matchbox with no ballast resisitor you need a 79 200sx coil or a MSD Blaster 2 coil.

[Good510]

Ok thanks to all of your guys input I now have a running 510!!!!!!

 

At this point it still needs a few things to get on the road: need to rebuild or get a new carb, brakes, drive shaft needs to ne installed and other little things lights etc.

 

But again thanks for all the input on the coil and dist, would have takin alot longer to do without your guys help

[Good510]

again thanks for all the help, here is video of its first start up and running: