ka intake manifold emissions

[dvaet]

okay so i have been searching the net on how to remove the emissions on a ka24de. but it seams most of the write ups are for the 240 guys and it seams like they dont remove as much as the datsun guys. so i was wondering if anyone had a write up and some pictures that they can post for me. im trying to do this on an s13 ka24de so the pictures would help out a lot.

thanks in advance guys/gals. POST ME SOME PICTURES

[Z-train]

Removing emission controls will gain you NOTHING.

[NOTES...]

Maybe he just wants to clean it up.. I did than on previous cars where it doesnt gain anything but looks a lot cleaner.... :P

[dvaet]

i just wanted to clean it up. the car isn't a daily driver, and im going to tuck all the wiring so im just trying to clean everything up.

[datzenmike]

What happens, is you remove things and later there are problems that are a bitch to trouble shoot on an EFI car. Small vacuum leak, missing sensors, loose wiring, bad grounds. Most people don't have a clue how the emissions systems work and although they say it's to 'clean up the looks' I think they really don't trust them and suspect that there is hidden power and mileage being wasted by having them on. The only way to learn is by doing, so fly at it.

[dvaet]

i can just follow one of the 240sx forums but it would be cool to know what the datsun guys are doing on thier car.

[datzenmike]

A quick (very quick) history of emission devices.

 

Motors make pollution. So the first emission devices were installed to simply clean up the emissions already being made and had little to do with the running of the engine. Slowly the emission devices began to be more pro-active and started telling the motor (and even the transmission) what to do so that they produced less emissions to begin with. Basically the engine asks permission of the emission system before doing anything.

 

Usually emission devices are 'cut out' under full throttle to give full emergency power for passing or whatever. The rest of the time they carefully 'tweak' engine running for best mileage and emission control. I would have no problem running a KA24E with all the 'stuff' on it.

[dvaet]

my kade actually was fully taken apart when the PO had the engine rebuilt it so he already took off the egr and im not sure what is or isnt working/thier so i figured rather than spending money to buy anything thats missing i could just take it all off. i have read about people having running issues in colder states before the engine gets warm, but i figure its preaty warm in california so i should be alright with an sfac. i just dont want to put it together than have to go through all of the stytems trying to find out whats wrong with it.

[INDY510]

.

Click on this link,,, it opens a PDF file ..... http://www.liquidmathematics.com/temp/EGR-Removal.pdf

[Creepy Cruiser]

Listen to mike, he really know his stuff.

 

Really, you can have the best of both worlds. Here is a pic of my '96 ka24de (OBDII motor, that comes with a lot more crap on it than an OBDI, lol), and I still have all the emissions on it except the EGR. I just took some time and stashed all the wires, vacuum, sensors and such inside the manifold to give it that clean look, but kept everything still on there. It runs very strong and very reliable (and great gas mileage, lol). Soon, (since I'm now done with mock up) when I take it all apart to powder coat and polish everything, I'll grind all the old holding posts off the intake, to give it an even cleaner look.

 

[dvaet]

your engine looks awesome i was just sort of hoping i wouldn't have to fix any broken emissions stuff. i guess ill just have to bite the bullet and shell out the cash, lol

[Spades]

This is coming from a entry level mechanic, but keep in mind my opinions are based off of years in the trade and what I have learned from master technicians and instructors. I would not remove the emissions systems unless you know how everything works inside and out, and if you do not have the diagnostic equipment or knowledge to be able to figure out which part of the emissions system are not working properly, DO NOT DO IT.

 

If you were doing what I had considered, and were taking a KA24 or another FI motor and building an intake manifold and running a carburetor(s) and a aftermarket ignition system with no computer at all, then go for it. However, if you plan on swapping in a modern motor and do not know what each part does, your best bet is to not basterdise it, make good notes on anything you change or rewire, and let someone else find the problem with most of the factory electronics in place.

 

At the shop where I work, we "fix" motor swaps all the time...someone takes a car, swaps a motor in, but it never runs right(if at all). Usually, it is a damaged/inoperational sensor, a bad wiring job, or sometimes a critical mistake keeping the car from functioning properly. The more "stuff" removed from a otherwise factory motor, the more jury-rigging required to make the motor function properly with the factory ECU. If you are using stand alone or programmable engine management with a modern OBDII engine and want to remove the evap system, go for it, because you will most likely be able to learn how (or pay someone) to tune it, but otherwise it is a huge waste of time and money. Modern EFI systems constantly adapt to changes in air temp, humidity, engine load, and other factors to produce a balanced mixture, the more you mess with that, the better chance of loosing power and gas mileage.

 

You can make a motor swap clean and reliable...it has more to do with a proper installation, tune, and a clean routing of wires/hoses. Fix the emissions system problems, stay away from the JBweld, buy or build an intake for it(or at least put an air filter on it), and don't use speaker wire to hold ANYTHING together. If you manage that, you will already be ahead of the dozens of cars I have unbasterdised recently.

[dvaet]

thanks spades that was a great post. im going to take your edvice and just put it together then try to figure out whats not working.:thumbup: sounds like you guys just saved me a lot of future headaches