510 L20B EFI conversion - the project is finished!

[wildmaninid]

Hmm saturday you say? If i can get someone to watch the kiddos i could use one last datsun cruise before the snow hits..........if it doesn't hit before saturday

 

Bill

[Creepy Cruiser]

I usually bring my son (he's 5), but he has other plans this time. There is usually 3-4 kids at each meet., so it's no problem to bring them. (unless you are trying to get a little adult time, lol)

[Sealik]

I was assuming that....(as most).. all the wires were connected properly, including that yellow wire to the starter. :)

Here nor there.....it's good that you finally figured it out. :thumbup:

Note....I believe some people looped that yellow wire into the 'cab' and switched it.....just for cold starts....?

Anywho.....I'd race you....BUT.....you'd have to slap on some 30x9s and then load your car up with 10 + bodies or 15 overweight cub scouts :lol: :lol:

Which ever fits better.

Get the weight a little closer..... :rolleyes: :)

[HRH]

Hey Todd, I'd love to make it out to Post Falls, but not sure I'm going to have the 510 done by then, plus I work until 5 at NAPA on Sat, then takes 35-50 minutes to close up. If I get done and the wonderful customers haven't beaten me into a stupor, I might try and make it over there. And I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Bill again too. I'll probably have to bring my Datsun hardbody tho. :)

[MicroMachinery]

Hey, congrats on your success! It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to head back out to that JY and get the rest of the FI stuff off that 200sx just in case you want to sell the whole set-up(ahem) to someone in the future. Now let's see some videos!

[Creepy Cruiser]

No worries Matt, the weather depends on what I'll be bringing also. It would be cool to see you, no matter what you bring.

[LenRobertson]

Matt - We were talking at P&S as you were pulling the harness off that 200SX, and I mentioned there had recently been an '80 SX on Spokane CL, no pic, for $400. I knew the ad mentioned some sort of problem, but that day I couldn't remember what. It finally came to me - the ad said "front end damage". Just like the '80 that showed up at P&S a couple weeks later with a smashed front end. Almost has to be the same car. It is too bad one of us couldn't have gotten it for the price P&S paid (maybe $150?). The Z20e might be a good engine with "long rods", 5-speed (dogleg?, although with the Z-tilt bell housing), and all the FI pieces you might have gotten for spares. Oh well, I'm just having packrat fantasies. P&S has it now, and everyone's garage has more room. Probably works out best.

 

Len

[HRH]

You know, I think I'll make a point to stop by on Saturday night, provided I get out of NAPA at a reasonable time. Bill, you find a babysitter yet?

[HRH]

Okay, still no videos, I'm sorry, haven't had time lately. Been dinking around getting the distributor back together. The 200sx matchbox was damaged at the wrecking yard but I bought it anyway and swapped the good guts into the good housing/bad guts matchbox I had. (I need to give the other matchbox back to the Datsun guru, was borrowing it in the testing phase and don't want to put the bent shaft pertronix dist back in, though I probably will fix it eventually.)

 

And today at work I found a perfect thing to make spacers for the rear coils to adjust ride height! A giant truck mud flap! I picked out one of the 1/4" thick ones, should be just about right to raise the rear end since I'll need to throw some sandbags back there for winter.

 

Finished relocating the battery. It's now mounted securely to the rear passenger floor pan with a nice aluminum pan, 3 seater now, oh well. Still have to make the air filter. Ended up buying to 2.5" 32/36 filter assemblies. Couldn't get just the flat plate through Weber carbs direct. Not that big a deal, at least I'll have a spare air filter now. Anyway, going to make a template with the other airflow meter, then cut out what I need to have a perfect fit. The 32/36 pattern is too wide for the AFM if you don't use the aluminum piece. I have no more room, so it's just bolting on where the aluminum piece used to.

 

So, a few more things to do. Planning on having her operational before Thanksgiving, which is coming up fast. Crossing my fingers!

 

I'll post videos once I've tested her a bit and gotten my rear crossmember locked out with the flat pucks. Bypassing the original crap rubber bushings altogether and solid-mounting. Rear steering sucks, especially unintentional rear steering.

[LenRobertson]

I've been wondering if everything was progressing well. Sounds like it is, which is great.

 

I'm remembering the Z20e dizzy uses a different advance curve compared to carbed L20. Which one is best for your FI engine, I don't know, although the Z20 version seems more likely. I don't know which plate you ended up with in your rebuilt, or if you will even tell a difference. Somewhere here on Ratsun is a sticky for Jason Grey's dizzy pages that gives all the diz numbers and curve specs. Remember to give the vacuum advance the suck test, since most of these are leaky. I suppose you can still get them new through NAPA.

 

I don't know what sort of hold-downs you have on your battery, but I wouldn't trust anything like the thin diameter rods normally used in under-hood hold-downs. Maybe there is some racing version of hold-down. Something with heavy nylon straps seems safer than anything threaded. Several years ago here in my town a couple of teen brothers were getting an old VW beetle running. They took a test drive before they bothered getting the brakes working, and ran off the road. The battery they were using was just sitting on the floor behind the seats. During the wreck, one of them got hit in the head by the loose battery and was killed. So I guess I'm sensitive to heavy things inside the vehicle that might fly around during a wreck. Of course, I drove a Chevy van for years and years, always with at least a heavy box of tools in the back, often heavier junk from yards sales back there. I always figured if I ran off the road, I'd be lucky to escape the flying junk.

 

Len

[HRH]

Hmmm, good thing I posted that up. I have j bolts through the fairly thick aluminum diamond plate I made for the battery box base, and the battery is in a marine plastic container which has a strap around it, but that does make me think about rollovers. I may reengineer my hold down system to go through the floor because a flying battery would really suck inside the car. It's more than adequate for now, but definitely something to think about. Thanks Len!

[LenRobertson]

Hmmm, good thing I posted that up. I have j bolts through the fairly thick aluminum diamond plate I made for the battery box base, and the battery is in a marine plastic container which has a strap around it, but that does make me think about rollovers. I may reengineer my hold down system to go through the floor because a flying battery would really suck inside the car. It's more than adequate for now, but definitely something to think about. Thanks Len!

 

I almost didn't mention the battery thing, cause I figured I'd sound like a nanny. I don't know if one heavy nylon strap across the battery box will be enough. Two straps crossed at 90 degrees seems better. With thick plates under the floor where the bolts go through, so the bolts can't pull through. Seat belt mounts on the floor might be quick and cheap, even though you don't need hardware that heavy. Like you said, until you get to driving it more, it isn't a top priority, but something to do before competition season.

 

Len

[Creepy Cruiser]

In my race car, I use a marine style plastic box, and a lap style seat belt for my hold down, bolted through the floor. It's more than strong enough, easy to adjust, and quick release for servicing or an emergency. You also do not want to use a standard battery inside the passenger compartment (or even the trunk for that matter). The fumes are toxic, and explosive, and it will start to eat you car from the inside out. You definitely want a sealed battery (optima, odyssey, etc...)

[HRH]

Yeah, fortunately the 510 is pretty drafty :D , not too worried about fumes yet, but I'll probably price out an Optima at work tomorrow. Joe mentioned that too when I dropped off some parts for him tonight. Sucks though, that battery is only 3 or 4 years old. Think my truck has a new one too. Bah.

[Creepy Cruiser]

Have you ever seen the inside of a Miata trunk after someone installs a regular battery? It eats and rusts everything very quickly. Just think what that is doing to your brain, ha ha ha.

[HRH]

A Miata truck? That sounds almost as bad as a VW bug truck. But why wouldn't they leave the battery in the original spot which would be outside? The other thing I could get is one of those Volkswagen batteries with the vent tube, then hook that to a breather to outside. Not that I don't want an Optima, but the damn things are expensive, even for us employees.

[Unclejesse88]

Just do like you say and run a vented battery. They usually have an oval port on them to hook up a vent hose to. There are many cars that use batteries in the trunk, and as long as that vent hose is hooked up, is actually a better setup than the usual spot under the hood. I've never seen a vented trunk battery corrode.

 

As for battery mounting, either use some kind of tray/box that prevents any lateral movement, or use a non conductive hold-down. Speaking from past destruction derby experience, a battery has a lot of inertia, and can easily slide laterally in an accident. You don't want the battery shorting to the hold-down. It sounds like you have that covered with the plastic/marine box.

[Creepy Cruiser]

The trunk of a Miata, lol. (even spell check wouldn't catch that one.)

[HRH]

Heeeeeeey kids! Here's what we've been working on. Have a rebuilt matchbox now, put some dielectric grease on the slide plates, cleaned it all up, nice and smooth. Don't have a picture of the completed unit, but it's completed.

 

Bought the broken 200sx distributor and swapped out the guts into a good housing I had, but with crappy guts, namely some broken slides and a loose dingleball. That's the picture. The advance works with three of those balls to rotate the innards. With one broken it doesn't work all that smoothly.

 

The only annoyance is now the matchbox is too close to the exhaust. I always seem to find the housing that sticks it towards the exhaust. If I flip it 180, then the vacuum advance is too close to the exhaust. Anyway, think I'll make a little heat shield for the matchbox and call it good. Or I'll rebuild one of the other points distributors and use the pertronix.

 

Don't worry, I put the pegs in the correct holes on the last picture.

 

And here's the exciting part: The new plate for the air filter, bolts onto the AFM. Custom job, with a dremel tool cut off wheel! :D It's going to be sweeeeeet. Yes, had to order two 32/36 kits because they won't sell you two blank top plates.

 

[HRH]

Haha, yeaaaahh boooooiiiiiii! :D

 

[HRH]

Took her for a drive tonight, in the new fallen snow. Not much of it, and don't have the snow tires on yet. INFINITELY BETTER than carbs! I can let her idle and she doesn't die! I keep waiting for it as the carbs ran too rich and would eventually choke out or idle at 500 rpm after a minute of idling. First and second seem to run better and faster, but seem slower. I think it's because with the matchbox and EFI the bottom end is much better so the whole sweep of the gear is more even, unlike the carbs where there was nothing down low and then a big pull when the cam kicked on. Since the speedo is off, can't really guage speed, but it seems to be as fast, if not faster than the carbs.

 

There is the slightest hesitation when a certain load is demanded. It's hard to make it do it actually. Start off slow and it's fine, romp it hard and it's fine. Seems to be changing gear load and medium throttle maybe. I think it probably has something to do with the massive air amount going into the AFM. The original airbox is horribly restrictive, have a feeling the flap is opening too quickly. It's very minor, not hardly worth investigating but I will anyway.

 

Either way, she runs good. Have a bit more tweaking to do but so far very pleased. Have her back up in the garage now to lock out the rear crossmember since my bushings have started to fail. (The big ones on the main beam) Putting plastic pucks from Joe to solid mount it to the body. Have to get that done before Thanksgiving since this is my last day off and I told the relatives I'd drive it over for Thanksgiving day.

 

Didn't take any videos for fear of jinxing my progress. :) Sorry. I'll do videos around Thanksgiving probably.

[Creepy Cruiser]

Just in time. Did you see they posted the rallycross dates?

 

Season Schedule:

December 11-12

January 15-16

February 19-20

[Sealik]

Took her for a drive tonight, in the new fallen snow. Not much of it, and don't have the snow tires on yet. INFINITELY BETTER than carbs! I can let her idle and she doesn't die! I keep waiting for it as the carbs ran too rich and would eventually choke out or idle at 500 rpm after a minute of idling. First and second seem to run better and faster, but seem slower. I think it's because with the matchbox and EFI the bottom end is much better so the whole sweep of the gear is more even, unlike the carbs where there was nothing down low and then a big pull when the cam kicked on. Since the speedo is off, can't really guage speed, but it seems to be as fast, if not faster than the carbs.

 

There is the slightest hesitation when a certain load is demanded. It's hard to make it do it actually. Start off slow and it's fine, romp it hard and it's fine. Seems to be changing gear load and medium throttle maybe. I think it probably has something to do with the massive air amount going into the AFM. The original airbox is horribly restrictive, have a feeling the flap is opening too quickly. It's very minor, not hardly worth investigating but I will anyway.

 

Either way, she runs good. Have a bit more tweaking to do but so far very pleased. Have her back up in the garage now to lock out the rear crossmember since my bushings have started to fail. (The big ones on the main beam) Putting plastic pucks from Joe to solid mount it to the body. Have to get that done before Thanksgiving since this is my last day off and I told the relatives I'd drive it over for Thanksgiving day.

 

Didn't take any videos for fear of jinxing my progress. :) Sorry. I'll do videos around Thanksgiving probably.

 

 

That hesitation is somewhat common on theses swaps.

On 'another' note...your clock could be adjusted for the increased airflow?

[HRH]

Just in time. Did you see they posted the rallycross dates?

 

Season Schedule:

December 11-12

January 15-16

February 19-20

 

 

Yep, saw that! In fact, I talked to Joe about it a little bit ago. We're probably going to dual drive the 510 for some events provided the snow works in our favor. I had to call him to ask if I could swap him distributors.

 

One of the issues with this swap is if you don't angle the intake manifold, it puts the outlet too close to the elbow between the throttle body and the AFM. With the older 69 single point distributor with the Pertronix igniter, it clears that elbow just fine. With the later bigger body L20B matchbox distributor, it runs into the elbow on some versions of that distributor. Some happen to be clocked slightly differently by about 30 degrees on the shaft. In which case, the usable setting happens to be between two of the spark plug terminals on the cap, so it just BARELY fits. The other distributor I spent all that time rebuilding sits with the spark plug terminal directly in line with the elbow edge when timed correctly, which of course doesn't work.

 

So I asked Joe if I could have the distributor (the right one) he gave me while I was trouble shooting and he said that's why he had that one, because he had the same issue in his shop truck. Said he changed it to that clocking, which would be the shaft itself I think because all the caps are equilateral between the clamps and the spark plug terminals. Anyway, it works and Joe let me keep it since he probably won't ever change the one on his shop truck. They rarely wear out anyway, just the matchbox goes tits up if anything. The matchbox is facing the exhaust which sucks, but I'll put a heat shield on it before too long. The other one I rebuilt would actually work better since both the matchbox and the vacuum advance face away from the exhaust, but it would need to be used with a manifold of better design. For instance Joe's girlfriend's car has the intake angled and there's a lot of room to fit stuff.

[HRH]

Okay, here are some videos of the newly operation EFI system. One thing I have noticed is short times of key off after running, like going into the store for 10 minutes, then coming back out, the system tends to be a little bitchy and hiccup here and there for a few minutes until it gets warm again. Not sure if that's the lack of the air dingus thing, or the system loosing temperature or just the fact that it's an 80. Not a deal breaker for sure, just not quite the driveability of say my 93 hardbody. Regardless, it's still 10 times better than carburetors.