PT 2. of my 3 tickets....

[Suspect]

A couple weeks ago I got a ticket for not having a bumper, a baulb out, and for not signaling when I turned into mcdonalds...

 

Both the bumper and the baulb out was waived and I denied responsibility on the not using my signal because I know I did.

 

The court date with the magistrate was today and I had to sit down with the cop and the magistrate to determine what happened. The cop that showed up was the passenger in the donut cruiser. He said that he didn't see my signal from over a block away. He also said that the brake light could have made it so he didn't see it.

 

I stated my side, said that I turned my signal on like I always do. I told the magistrate that I shouldn't have to prove that I used my signal, that the officer should have to prove I didn't. He said exactly.

 

Well what end up happening was the magistrate believed that I turned my signal on, and believed that the cop didn't see it. But because the cop didn't see it, I still get stuck with the ticket. The magistrate also said that my signal may not have came on fast enough and that makes for a defective signal. So now I either get to try to fight it again with an actual judge or pay the $40 ticket, $40 court cost, and get 2 more points on my drivers license.

 

So I don't know.... I do know that as soon as I hit my signal switch, in less than a second my indicator lights up. I know all my lights work and I know that my signal was on when I turned. I guess next time I'll have to wait in the road.... get out of my truck and ask the officer if he sees my signal.... get back in my truck and complete the corner.

[cbattey224]

damn that sucks man. they always have the upper hand on you. ive been driving a year with a bagged and shaved toyota with led lights only running lights and brake lights. i must have good luck. and i drive in california, san diego and la a lot. knock on wood haha. me and my brother are gona redo all my wiring on it and make it clean and have all lights monday lol. sorry about the tickits

P.S i did get a ticket for not having reflectors tho. my lights are about a half inch tall and 6 inches wide

[datzenmike]

Assume you may loose but show up an fight it. Loss of points by not showing up is stupid. You are throwing them away for sure. You will then have this on permanent record and, you could later have a string of bad luck and those two points you threw away could be the difference for having your license suspended. Go down fighting! I've seen cases dismissed because the cop has over booked and assumed that a certain percentage will pay instead of showing. He might be sick that day. The judge might be sympathetic to you or not like the cops story. There's a chance if you show, no chance and loss of valuable points if you don't.

 

Good luck dude.

[slam_dat_sun]

I would fight it, I have fought the law in court on traffic violations and won 8 out of 10 cases . That is not bad stats .

[Roadracer Al]

Always fight a traffic ticket. ALWAYS. Among other things, you're making The Man work for his money.

[Braden]

A couple weeks ago I got a ticket for not having a bumper, a baulb out, and for not signaling when I turned into mcdonalds...

 

Both the bumper and the baulb out was waived and I denied responsibility on the not using my signal because I know I did.

 

The court date with the magistrate was today and I had to sit down with the cop and the magistrate to determine what happened. The cop that showed up was the passenger in the donut cruiser. He said that he didn't see my signal from over a block away. He also said that the brake light could have made it so he didn't see it.

 

I stated my side, said that I turned my signal on like I always do. I told the magistrate that I shouldn't have to prove that I used my signal, that the officer should have to prove I didn't. He said exactly.

 

Well what end up happening was the magistrate believed that I turned my signal on, and believed that the cop didn't see it. But because the cop didn't see it, I still get stuck with the ticket. The magistrate also said that my signal may not have came on fast enough and that makes for a defective signal. So now I either get to try to fight it again with an actual judge or pay the $40 ticket, $40 court cost, and get 2 more points on my drivers license.

 

So I don't know.... I do know that as soon as I hit my signal switch, in less than a second my indicator lights up. I know all my lights work and I know that my signal was on when I turned. I guess next time I'll have to wait in the road.... get out of my truck and ask the officer if he sees my signal.... get back in my truck and complete the corner.

 

i dont know how your laws are in your state but in kentucky a misdemeanor has to be witnessed by the officer, awhile back i tried to get something done about the tractors flying through my subdivision running the stop signs, i had video and a petition, and the whole nine yards they still wouldnt do shit because they didnt "see" it, in my opinion if the judge ruled the officer didnt see your shit then you are innocent, fight that shit man, im willing to sign a petition myself, start one on the forum then present it to the judge, let him know if you get any penalty he will have 10,000 angry datto owners running his streets!!!! biatch!!!!

[Suspect]

I wish I would have brought a tape recorder or something so you guys could have heard the conversation..... I couldn't believe it.... I don't even know if there is even 10,000 Datsuns left in the world.....

 

Here is a copy of my ticket.... not sure why but here it is...

 

SRY for the DIALUP USERS

 

Edited December 18, 2009 by Suspect

[yellowdatsun]

Fighting vehicle equipment violations is ALWAYS a good thing, they can usually get dropped if you fix the problem. Fighting a moving violation is almost always useless, the judge will usually side with the officer, even if you can prove your case.

 

My buddies brother went to court for a moving violation, and proved that the officer was wrong, but in the end the judge said this: "Even though I believe you, I'm still going to side with the officer". Can you believe that shit?!?! The judge admitted to siding with the officer even when he knew it was wrong. In traffic court you are ALWAYS automatically guilty.

[hang_510]

Fighting vehicle equipment violations is ALWAYS a good thing, they can usually get dropped if you fix the problem.

 

In traffic court you are ALWAYS automatically guilty.

 

coming in with proof of correction(s) = guilty

here... its a $10 ticket/correctable offense, used to be free.

 

 

at least if you plead not guilty initially, you have 50/50 chance of the cop doing a no show :D

[yellowdatsun]

I Arizona, if you bring in proof of the corrections made to faulty parts, they always drop the charges.

[Skib]

My buddies brother went to court for a moving violation, and proved that the officer was wrong, but in the end the judge said this: "Even though I believe you, I'm still going to side with the officer". Can you believe that shit?!?! The judge admitted to siding with the officer even when he knew it was wrong. In traffic court you are ALWAYS automatically guilty.

 

Yup, the initial cause of me getting pulled over last time is cuz he said I didnt stop at the stop sign (gave me a "warning") even tho its physically impossible to see my car from the block he was sitting on. All he saw where my headlights on the house in front of me (the street goes strait and then crooks to an angle at the stop) I proved that he couldnt see my car and the judge said that seeing my headlights is actually a better way to tell if Im stopped than if he was looking at my wheels moving, now thats some horseshit.

[77 rustrat]

yeah i usually just out run them and hide if they cant find you you aint guilty. lol. seriously bro sorry to hear about that its some bullshit

[sam o nela]

Remember that the court must find you "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". That is key. Can the officer PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that you did NOT use your signal?

 

If there was a transcript from the hearing you already went to, it will be on the record that the officer said (according to your post) something to the effect of, "he didn't see the signal from over a block away. He also said that the brake light could have made it so he didn't see it." It should also be transcribed that the magistrate said that "it is possible that your signal was on but the officer did not see it."

 

How do you prove that? You should be given time to ask the officer questions. He is under oath so all you have to get him to admit is the possibility that you may have signaled and he might not have seen it...per his own statement at the previous hearing!

 

It's a long shot, but its one of the few you have...

Edited December 19, 2009 by sam o nela

[Suspect]

I'm going to appeal the decision and have another chance at court. What I went to earlier was just an informal hearing. The next one will be a formal hearing.

 

I'm not very good at representing myself.... I would never be a good lawyer, sales person, or anything that involves public speaking. I'm considering bringng my actual lawyer to represent me but 'it will probably cost more than the ticket...

[yellowdatsun]

Traffic court is WAAYY different than normal court, they don't need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Ever. As long as the judge thinks the police officers story is somewhat reasonable, he will side with the officer. Totally sucks, but that's just how it is.

[sam o nela]

Traffic court is WAAYY different than normal court, they don't need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Ever. As long as the judge thinks the police officers story is somewhat reasonable, he will side with the officer. Totally sucks, but that's just how it is.

 

This is incorrect. In the United States when one is charged with a crime (even a traffic violation), the accused is entitled to due process. Our traffic courts are setup differently than criminal court yes, but the basic backbone of our court system is still in place. That is to say that the burden of proof is on the state and guilt must be found beyond a reasonable doubt. This is why when you go to traffic court and the officer doesn't show up your case is often dismissed...because without the officer's testimony the court cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty of the violation for which you are being charged.

 

Of course there are places where it's like the Good 'Ol Boys' club, and the judge can side with an officer 99.9% of the time. But if there is a transcript with an officer saying something to the effect of, "he may have 'missed' your turn signal because of your brake light," that shows that the officer is not 100% sure that you DIDN'T have your turn signal on. It has to be 100%. The judge has to be 100% convinced that a violation occurred. It can't be "you might not have signaled" it HAS to be "you DID NOT signal." If it's "you might have not signaled...but then again you might have..." that's reasonable doubt. Especially if that can be inferred from the officer's earlier testimony as is evidenced by the magistrate's comment. Which is why a transcript is important.:( I would think that even an informal hearing should have something on the record.

 

With 2 License points at stake...I would imagine you have nothing to lose by going to court...just polish up on speaking. Remember you don't have to sound like a lawyer. Just know what its is you are trying to prove and it will be like debating with someone that 1+1 does in fact equal 2. You just have to KNOW that you are right.

[Suspect]

The magistrate ruled in the officers favor and told me that I had to make sure my signal was seen..... I thought the ticket was for not using it, not for not making it seen. What am I supose to do, sit on the road with my signal on, when the officer or person comes up behind me, I get out and personally ask them if they see my signal... then make sure they are positive that they do see it, then get back in my truck and complete the turn?

[Guest DatsuNoob]

Always fight a traffic ticket. ALWAYS. Among other things, you're making The Man work for his money.

 

Yeah, but if they rule against you, they win, they get their money, you lose a day's wage and spend the rest of the day pissed off at the cops/court. I've had this happen a few times with police officers adjusting reports to support their cases against me. I have very little faith in the judicial system

[Suspect]

After waiting and getting the day off to re fight this turn signal ticket, on the last day they rescheduled the formal hearing. It was rescheduled to today at 1:30pm. I go and get there on time. I waited for an hour and 45 minits and got impatient. I asked the desk lady how much longer it was going to take and she didn't know. About 10 minits later, the officer that wrote me the tickets stormed out of the court house, got in his cruiser and left. The ticket got dismissed and I got my $80 back. So I'm finally clear of all 3 of these BS tickets.

[ggzilla]

How do you fight it? You already had your day in court and lost. Can you request an appeal?

[Suspect]

How do you fight it? You already had your day in court and lost. Can you request an appeal?

 

In Michigan, you get 3 shots. First is a One on One with the Cop with the Magistrate making the decision. the 2nd time around, its a Formal Hearing. You can have an attourney, cops has one, there is a real judge and an audience. The 3rd time around, is like a regular court case but I never brought a traffic ticket to that distance.