Blown HG?

[banzai510(hainz)]

4 minutes ago, atkinson40 said:

Could a leaky HG be caused from not retorquing the head bolts since the last time I replaced the HG?

maybe quick to tighten them but if ran too long the gasket might be gone now.

[datzenmike]

11 minutes ago, atkinson40 said:

Could a leaky HG be caused from not retorquing the head bolts since the last time I replaced the HG?

 

Can't hurt, but L series are not known for head bolts failing to clamp the head down properly. This IS a problem with the Z24 engine.

 

This will only assure that the gasket is properly clamped. It won't fix a blown one. On a DEAD COLD engine loosen one bolt and tighten to 60 ft. lbs. Now move to the next bolt. You can do in any order you like. Don't get you hopes up.

 

11 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

 

 

If me I would first see if you have a heater line to the manifold for a water passage./ maybe the bolts are loose. if loose water can leak there. or get sucked in the intake thru the gasket if bolts are loose. if sucked in then the spark plugs would look  clean. This could be it.

 

 

 

Doesn't explain the air bubbles in the radiator when running.

[datzenmike]

 

 

 

 

[atkinson40]

Bubbles and Radiator Cap.  I'll tighten head bolts.  See if it helps.

[atkinson40]

If it was exhaust gas getting into the cooling system it would seem that I would have bubbles in the overflow at all times.  The exhaust is at a much higher pressure and would push past the 13PSI of the radiator cap.  I only get bubbles when I pop the pressure relief on the radiator cap. 

 

In addition, if I run the vehicle and then let it sit for 2-3 days and I pop the pressure relief on the radiator cap, the cooling system is still under pressure.  If there was leakage from the exhaust, wouldn't the pressure bleed back out after the engine sat for a while?  What would cause a one way pressure (under 13PSI) to build up in the cooling system.   Kinda like a check valve only letting air go one way.

 

There is a coolant line that goes over to the intake manifold.  Can air get in through there some how.

 

Could I find a blown head gasket with a pressure test on the cylinders?  

Edited May 8 by atkinson40

[datzenmike]

Any pressure in the system is trapped behind that 13 PSI radiator cap.

 

Normally the system is at neutral pressure. Any expansion is from heat and when it cools back down the air at the top of the radiator shrinks causing a slight vacuum and sucks any expelled coolant from the overflow container back into the radiator keeping it topped off. When ever I check mine there is no pressure and the radiator level is full to the bottom of the cap.

 

That residual pressure is coming from somewhere. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

36 minutes ago, atkinson40 said:

There is a coolant line that goes over to the intake manifold.  Can air get in through there some how.

it can get sucked in thru the intake. but seeing a spark plug if very white clean then you know. But I said this 3 times already.

 

seen the vid, I dont know maybe a head tear off is next replace  head gasket. I cant think of anything else right now.

 

No water in oil?  I had a front cover go bad with the tiny pin hole. when hot it dumped in to the crankcase

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I say leave the cap on after bleeding it like I told you, then watch the level of the coolant in the recovery tank. It will go through a levelling phase, then it won't change unless it's hot or cold, but the cold level will be the same every morning. If it's full in the morning, then you know there's a problem.

[atkinson40]

1 hour ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I say leave the cap on after bleeding it like I told you, then watch the level of the coolant in the recovery tank. It will go through a levelling phase, then it won't change unless it's hot or cold, but the cold level will be the same every morning. If it's full in the morning, then you know there's a problem.

Tried that.  Lost half a gallon of fluid somewhere after topping off the radiator and running a 40 mile trip.   If I had not checked the radiator level, it would continue loosing fluid and overheat.

 

Recovery tank level did not go up hot or cold.

[IZRL]

2 hours ago, atkinson40 said:

Tried that.  Lost half a gallon of fluid somewhere after topping off the radiator and running a 40 mile trip.   If I had not checked the radiator level, it would continue loosing fluid and overheat.

 

Damn you've lost like 3 gallons of fluid since you started this thread(sarcasm). There has to be evidence of where this fluid is going, somewhere on the car.

 

Maybe try and use a UV coolant leak detector. Never used a coolant UV leak detector before, but I have used a UV AC refrigerant leak detector and it worked great. Poor the liquid in the radiator, run it for a while. Than scan the entire engine compartment with a black light. 

 

https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/uv-light-and-accessories/p/auto-pro-usa-antifreeze-and-coolant-leak-detector-uv-dye-1oz/667633_0_0?cmpid=LIA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:ACC:19323145846&&CATARGETID=120054150001286306&CADevice=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS3_hhSxYLaTDYo0JYtI-R7vH42JoT9veu7u_9xCGfbEnlynNGF_MBAgaAlvGEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Edited May 8 by IZRL

[datzenmike]

The most, not obvious way out, is the tailpipe. On light cruise, almost no load and certainly on deceleration there is almost no compression in the cylinder, certainly when slowing down the cylinder is under intake vacuum 20Hg. conditions. Now if the cooling system is pressurized (radiator cap 13 PSI) and the cylinder is at some vacuum condition coolant is not only going to flow, it's being pushed past a blown head gasket into the engine and out the exhaust.

 

A drip of water is 0.05gr. so if the leak is one drop every intake stroke then at 55-60 MPH and 3,000 RPMs that's 1,500 intake strokes per minute. Equaling 75 gr. It would only take 13 min of driving to loose a liter of coolant.

 

It could he half that or half and hour per liter

It could be 1/4 of a drip or just under an hour.

 

And not just on the highway, any time the engine is running.

[banzai510(hainz)]

51 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

it's being pushed past a blown head gasket into the engine and out the exhaust.

like I said very clean sparkplugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

4 hours ago, atkinson40 said:

Tried that.  Lost half a gallon of fluid somewhere after topping off the radiator and running a 40 mile trip.   If I had not checked the radiator level, it would continue loosing fluid and overheat.

 

Recovery tank level did not go up hot or cold.

Maybe I missed it, but this is the first I heard about losing half a gallon of coolant.

 

Yeah, probably a blown head gasket.

 

[atkinson40]

2 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Maybe I missed it, but this is the first I heard about losing half a gallon of coolant.

 

Yeah, probably a blown head gasket.

 

 

No you did not miss it.   It just started loosing that much this last trip.

 

It sat for a while.  Maybe a month or more.   Before that it was loosing maybe half a quart off and on.  In another thread it was suggested I add a recovery tank that it did not have.  Maybe it was loosing it out the overflow.  I added the recovery tank and changed the plugs and wires.  Dummy me did not change the distributor cap.

 

I do not use the truck much.  After the recovery tank, plugs and wires change, and topping off the radiator I drove it 40 miles to get some furniture.   It did not overheat.

But I needed to add about a half a jug of antifreeze.(1/2 gallon)   This is the most it's ever lost.

 

I just removed the plugs.   They only have about 40 miles on them.  Pictures below.  Right to left is front to back.  Back plug smells like gas.  This may be the miss I sense.

 

I just noticed a new symptom.   When I rev the engine, the bubbles in the overflow stop.  Note that I only see bubbles when I have the radiator cap release lever up so no pressure is on the cap/radiator.

 

I also see corrosion between head and block.  Maybe seepage?

[atkinson40]

Seems like I been fighting this beast a while.  

 

 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

the last 2 plugs look very clean .

Meaning its sucking water in there,

I would put the old dirty plugs back IN and if they look clean again then its sucking water in

[datzenmike]

 

They should all be the same 'dirtiness' even if only 40 miles. Three and four are suspiciously clean indicating something is different there.

 

Exactly what head is on this engine? L20B? I've lost track. The head ID is along the bottom of the head below plug #1 This will tell me if the intake has coolant flowing through it.

[atkinson40]

6 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

They should all be the same 'dirtiness' even if only 40 miles. Three and four are suspiciously clean indicating something is different there.

 

Exactly what head is on this engine? L20B? I've lost track. The head ID is along the bottom of the head below plug #1 This will tell me if the intake has coolant flowing through it.

 

My apologies.  I removed these front to back so the order left to right is 4, 3, 2, 1.  So number 1 and 2 are clean. 

 

 

This truck originally had a 1600 block.   I swapped it out for a 1800 I found at the JY.   I'm pretty sure I measured the bore and it was for a stock 1800, and bought new pistons/rings for an 1800. 

 

I'm not seeing any numbers on the raised boss behind the dipstick to identify the block and I wire bused it down to shinny.   I cant find any block identification anywhere.  I pulled this out of a 620 at the JY, but who knows about its history previous to me.  I'm wondering if I have some weird block that does not like the head I have?  Maybe I bought the wrong HG for my head/block combination?

 

I am seeing a big " I 8 " lower down on the block.  Any way else to identify the block?

 

Edited May 9 by atkinson40

[banzai510(hainz)]

either way the sparkplugs look steam cleaned to me. Sucking in water

[atkinson40]

I'm R&R head gasket.  When I removed the valve cover gasket, one of the bolts went missing.  My fear is that it fell down the front cavity where the timing chain is.  Yes it was there to begin with.

 

I looked everywhere for it.  No luck, so I just began the tear down for the HG R&R hoping it may show up.  No luck yet.  There's all kind of places a bolt could get lodged in the engine compartment.

 

I removed the in/out manifolds.  I know in DM's write up it says not to , but getting the down pipe off would have been a bitch for me.  Lifting it out with them on wouldn't be fun either.  As it is, I'm going to build a saw horse over the engine and use a come along to pull the head off.  Hernia surgeries are a bitch.  In addition, I found a loose bolt on the intake manifold.  Maybe water was getting sucked in through the intake manifold.  My manifold has water flowing through it.

 

I dropped the oil pan to see if the bolt fell down the front and into the pan.  Nope.  I'll pull the front cover off to see the timing chain.  I've watched (hainz)'s video.   Fortunately I have an air compressor socket wrench and stuff comes apart pretty easily.   If I do not see it lodged if the timing chain cavity somewhere, I'm going to say it's hiding someplace that will not affect the engine.

 

There are no markings on the engine to show what it is.  I posted pictures. This is a junk yard engine.  When I dropped the oil pan, the crank has L18 painted on it.

 

My question is "Are the L16 and L18 engine gasket kits the same?"

 

 

Edited May 16 by atkinson40

[datzenmike]

The engine ID is stamped at top of the block behind the dip stick handle.

 

 

L18  it's probably an A87 but any L head will fit.

 

 

 

 

L16 bore is 83mm, L18 and L20B are both 85mm. Now rather than have two or more gaskets, most auto supply will sell the L20B gasket for all L series engines as a 'one size fit's all'.

 

As for the rest of the L16/L18 gasket set they are the same. The L20B timing cover is different. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

those are pretty long bolts. Be hard for it to fall totally straight then turn 90deg to go flat on the bottom.

 

Might as well pull the whole motor now and redo the whole thing if your taking off all this stuff.

if you git a L16 the Felpro HG is OK

L18/20 20 I would find a Nissan gasket

[banzai510(hainz)]

1 hour ago, atkinson40 said:

Maybe water was getting sucked in through the intake manifold.  My manifold has water flowing through it.

Didnt I mention this????????????

 

I pull the intake off and I leave the exhaust manifold with the Y pipe together and push it off to the side. as I dont like pulling the Y pipe .Bolt bust.

 

you need to put motor close to TDC then bust the cam and crank nut loose then put motor to TDC . Mark the chain link. if your NOT going to take the front cover off.

Edited May 16 by banzai510(hainz)

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

51 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

those are pretty long bolts. Be hard for it to fall totally straight then turn 90deg to go flat on the bottom.

It could get caught behind one of the timing chain guides.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Hes going to find the bolt in the Bathroom behind the shitter when it fell out of his pocket