5 Spd Swap

[NewDirection]

I have a lead on a 60A 5sp transmission from a 310 that I might want to swap into my '78 B210. I understand this shuld be a direct swap, I just may need some parts from the donor car. A few questions about this:

 

1. Will there be a tradeoff in terms of acceleration? I do short highway drives on a regular basis so don't "NEED" the 5spd but it might be nice if there isn't a huge tradeoff. But if the ratios are different enough where aceleration around town would be impacted I'd rather not do it.

 

2. How many hours of labour approximately would it be for a mechanic to swap in?

 

3. My current transmission has 46,000 kms on it, the new one would have 86,000 miles. Would I feel a difference in terms of feel?

[datzenmike]

The FS5W60A 5 spd. and the F4W60 4 spd. have the same first four ratios.

 

The FS5W60A just has a 5th over drive added which drops the RPMs 17.9% So if at highway speeds and you are driving at 3,500 RPMs, the shift into 5th will drop it 626 RPMs to 2,873. Over drives are not intended to allow you to go faster only drop your cruising RPMs to reduce wear and tear and possibly increase your mileage.

 

I would guess that the 4 speed can be removed in a couple of hours and the 5 speed put back in in the same time. Say from noon till supper time allowing for the emptying of the old, disconnecting the driveshaft, clutch slave and the shifter and the installation of the new and reverse order the removal. A shop might do it in 4 hours.

 

Note: I would definitely replace the high wear item release bearing.

 

You could do this yourself, they only weigh 55 pounds. What does a shop charge per hour?

 

 

 

[Dguy210]

Datsuns are some of the easiest cars to learn how to do your own repairs on, especially the B210. Unless you are highly constrained on time or space, or physically unable to do so, doing your own work will save you quite a bit of money and make it easier for you to diagnose problems in the future. 

 

You also might want to consider getting the clutch disc replaced while they have it open, replace the release bearing, the rear output seal on the transmission (this pops out and you can do it yourself in about 1 min) and the rear rubber transmission mount. 

 

I'd also suggest taking a good luck at the fluid (along with changing it to a GL4) and check any play on the transmission shaft on the 5spd before swapping it.

Edited January 1, 2024 by Dguy210

[datzenmike]

4 hours ago, NewDirection said:

 

 

3. My current transmission has 46,000 kms on it, the new one would have 86,000 miles. Would I feel a difference in terms of feel?

 

More wear, may make more sound. When you get it running you tell us. GL-4 80/90w gear oil.

 

Before installing put a new output seal in. Only a few bux. 32132-H5000

 

 

[KELMO]

I have 2 1200's. One is 4SPD and one is 5SPD. The 1200 evolved into the B210. I am not sure if the B210 used the same 4 SPD as the 1200 but here is my 2 cents worth.

 

The 4SPD is a little more "punchy" in 1st and 2nd gear. By that I mean quicker acceleration and quicker to gain higher RPM's. Other than that, mostly the same with the exception of highway speeds. The 4 SPD revs quite a bit higher at 55 MPH or above.

 

Replacement of the above mentioned parts is a good idea. There should be an intermediate plate between the block and the transmission, make sure it goes along with the transmission swap( the B210 may or may not have one). Compare the release bearing collars to see if they are the same height. I have found and least 4 different sizes between 1200, B210, and 210.

 

I thought the 310's were a front wheel drive(at least in the states).

[datzenmike]

The B-210 (F4W60) used the same ratios as the 210 4 and 5 speeds. However the very earliest B-210 used an F4W56A with a very low first gear 3.757 compared to the F4W60/F4W60L and FS5W60L's 3.513. The 3.757 would take off faster but it was a lighter transmission strength wise. 

[NewDirection]

Thanks everyone, seems like a solid upgrade. I'll get the parts together and get this going.

[KELMO]

Don't forget to drain the transmission before you pull the drive shaft.....I did that once, just once.

 

IIRC, this can be done with 10mm, 12mm, and 14mm sockets/wrenches and a crescent wrench. B210 may have 17mm on the crossmember but I am not sure.

[NewDirection]

I bought this transmission now and need to get all the parts together. When shopping for the above items (e.g., release bearing), do I search for them for my car (1978 B210) or for the donor car the transission came from (1980 B310).

 

Thanks in advance

[NewDirection]

Also, do I need a crossmember or crossmember kit or does my car already have all it needs?

[Dguy210]

The clutch bits (release lever, release bearing etc) should be the same or compatible for what is in the 60a transmission currently. The spacing off the clutch doesn't change between B210 and 210.

 

The 1200 uses a different and smaller style of mount for their transmissions. The B210 style is bigger and the 210 from memory is a bit wider. 

The rubber mount part should be the same or at least interchangeable between B210 and 210, the metal crossmember MIGHT be different depending on exactly when it was made. IF you're lucky use your 4 spd transmission mount to mount to the 60A, if not you might need to do some spacing out with washers or drill a couple extra holes in the transmission mount to get it to line up with the holes in the body. 

 

Usually the easy way is to get the transmission in and bolted to the engine with a jack under the transmission and raise it up to the correct spot with the transmission mount loosely on. See if the bolt holes mostly line up and if when the mount hits the underside of the car if it is inline on the horizontal plane with the diff face, if not mark where it needs new holes and potentially how much needs to be spaced out. 

 

Most of these cars when changing this stuff it is not directly bolt in with available parts, sometimes you need to rig something up or move a bit of metal to your liking. Or know someone who can. 

 

With the transmission out it is a good time to change the throwout bearing and change the end seal of the transmission. Usually the slave cylinder could be replaced too if it is not in really good shape (these tend to go bad with time).

 

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Gearbox_Crossmember

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=60-Series_Transmission#Using_B310_Mount

 

Edited May 29, 2024 by Dguy210

[NewDirection]

Thanks for the response that really helps.

 

Do you think it's worth getting the transmission "rebuilt" at 86,000 miles before installing it? I would have to have a shop do that as I don't have the skills.

 

My current 4sp transmission has 30,000 miles on it and feels like new. I don't want the one I'm installing to feel sloppy by comparison.

[Dguy210]

Just now, NewDirection said:

Thanks for the response that really helps.

 

Do you think it's worth getting the transmission "rebuilt" at 86,000 miles before installing it? I would have to have a shop do that as I don't have the skills.

 

My current 4sp transmission has 30,000 miles on it and feels like new. I don't want the one I'm installing to feel sloppy by comparison.

 

 

86,000 miles? Personally I wouldn't bother. Unless there was a lot of metal flakes in the oil or some suspected problem I'd just swap it in. One of the other transmission gurus might reply but I'd probably just look for input shaft slop and see if anything felt off on it. Most of the transmission problems on the the 60A I've ever seen have been the front bearing getting noisy or such more than anything else and that is at way past 86K. 

 

Unless you plan to put 30k a year on it under heavy hill driving it will probably outlast any concerns. 

[datzenmike]

Merged the other post into this one.

[NewDirection]

I'm putting in an order at RockAuto, any other parts that would be optimal to replace while I'm ordering?

So far I've got:

Release bearing

Output shaft seal

Slave cylinder (should this match my car or the donor car???)

 

There's a tonne of stuff on there like repair sleeve, output shaft bearing, that only costs a few bucks.

Edited May 29, 2024 by NewDirection

[datzenmike]

 Dealer's choice. They're both the same part number 30620-H6101

[nathan.is.an.idiot12312]

hey what transmission do you have in it now? is it it the 3 spd auto or the 4 speed because i would gladly take that 4 speed from ya

[NewDirection]

4 speed with 45,000 original kms on it, definitely keeping it, sorry man.

[nathan.is.an.idiot12312]

its all good bro was worth a shot

[KELMO]

Nathan,

I may have a 4 SPD around here and am WAY closer to you than Toronto. If I do, I'll send a PM later today.

[NewDirection]

Well the 5 speed has arrived (60A) and there's a problem. It may have been damaged in shipping as it does not shift at all. Nor does it turn at either the input end or the output end. While I try to make a claim through UPS, what's the way forward to getting this fixed? I was going to show up at a transmission shop, lay it on their table, and tell them to have at it but wanted to ask here first in case anyone has any ideas.

[datzenmike]

Was it boxed?

Was it shipped standing up or flat?

Was the shifter on it or shipped with it?

What position is the shifter in can you guess? Is it forward in like1, 3 or 5th?

Does the shifter move back and forth sideways?

 

I would start by contacting the seller and complaining to him. How was this paid for? If PayPal you can halt the payment.

 

If it was working, there is a way to jam it so input and output do not turn. This is by having it in two gears at the same time. I have had one apart and you can manually shift into two gears but I don't think it can be done with the shifter. A very sudden blow such as dropping it while in a vertical position may have jarred the shift forks forward causing 2 and 4, 2 and Rev or 4 and Rev to engage.

 

I'll wait for your replies to the above questions first.

[NewDirection]

Thanks Mike:

 

Was it boxed? - it was in a large plastic tote, which was itself in a box, with little padding.

Was it shipped standing up or flat? - Impossible to tell, it was shipped flat but may have tumbled all over the place judging by how bad the packaging was.

Was the shifter on it or shipped with it? - With it, not on it.

What position is the shifter in can you guess? Is it forward in like1, 3 or 5th? - If I had to guess itès either in neutral or fourth, as it seems to be centered.

Does the shifter move back and forth sideways? - Neither, no movement whatsoever.

[NewDirection]

I was going to get it looked at by a transmission shop before install anyway so I don't install it and then find out it's a dud. Any specific parts I should have ready for when they open it up?

[datzenmike]

Well you bought a (presumably) running 5 speed. That's not what you got and that's not your fault. Either you got screwed by the seller or the shipper screwed up.  Do you have any recourse? How did you pay for it? if I may ask? You shouldn't have to fix this.